For Those Who Do Believe In God...

[Anguille]

If there are no animals in heaven you couldn't force me to go there ... ever.

Well, people are animals even if they are your least favorite kind.

Bah! You got me ...

.. oooh, just thought of something based on that though, so if animals are not allowed in heaven then people wouldn't be there anyway.

Maybe that's what makes it heaven? No people.

 

[editec]

Well, people are animals even if they are your least favorite kind.

Bah! You got me ...

.. oooh, just thought of something based on that though, so if animals are not allowed in heaven then people wouldn't be there anyway.

Maybe that's what makes it heaven? No people.

Sounds heavenly to me.

 

[tigerbob]

You can't just "decide" to believe. Either you have faith or you don't. God knows the difference. If you are truly interested, attend a church or two or three, or a synagogue, or any other religious institution you like and try LISTENING, instead of just preaching.

I did this for years (went to church), problem is; you can't ask the hard questions like prove to me that God exists, there are no answers except, you must have faith.

Just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean you can't ask the questions.

If you need proof of God, than you don't understand God.

Have you read the book "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?" They have a really good little paragraph in there where the Bable fish prove that God exists and God can't exist without faith and so he goes "poof" and ceases to exist.

If often compare God to the mice (to a degree).

 

[tigerbob]

If there is a supreme being who gives a shit about this planet, what the fuck happened?

-Joe

Are you saying that if humans fuck something up and God doesn't fix it then clearly he does not exist?

Or if a human experiences something tragic and God doesn't intervene to make it all better then he doesn't exist?

Essentially, what you appear to be saying is that if God is loving and compassionate and yet still the world can be such an awful place, then either he doesn't exist, or if he does then he's a sadist. Or am I reading your post incorrectly?

 

[AVG-JOE]

If there is a supreme being who gives a shit about this planet, what the fuck happened?

-Joe

Are you saying that if humans fuck something up and God doesn't fix it then clearly he does not exist?

Or if a human experiences something tragic and God doesn't intervene to make it all better then he doesn't exist?

Essentially, what you appear to be saying is that if God is loving and compassionate and yet still the world can be such an awful place, then either he doesn't exist, or if he does then he's a sadist. Or am I reading your post incorrectly?

I'm saying that if God exists, he either doesn't care about the suffering of his children at the hands of his other children, his 'plan' includes needless suffering of his children at the hands of his other children or he is too weak to stop it.

If it is part of his plan, he'll not be worshipped by this average Joe.

The only other option is acknowledging that giving The Great Commission to the antecedents of Western Civilization was a huge mistake on Gods part.

-Joe

 

[tigerbob]

If there is a supreme being who gives a shit about this planet, what the fuck happened?

-Joe

Are you saying that if humans fuck something up and God doesn't fix it then clearly he does not exist?

Or if a human experiences something tragic and God doesn't intervene to make it all better then he doesn't exist?

Essentially, what you appear to be saying is that if God is loving and compassionate and yet still the world can be such an awful place, then either he doesn't exist, or if he does then he's a sadist. Or am I reading your post incorrectly?

I'm saying that if God exists, he either doesn't care about the suffering of his children at the hands of his other children, his 'plan' includes needless suffering of his children at the hands of his other children or he is too weak to stop it.

If it is part of his plan, he'll not be worshipped by this average Joe.

The only other option is acknowledging that giving The Great Commission to the antecedents of Western Civilization was a huge mistake on Gods part.

-Joe

OK - thanks for clarifying.

 

[YWN666]

And what makes my religion right is that it is right,.............

Oh, well that settles it then!

 

[Terral]

Hi Colorado:

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

Colorado does not choose God, but God sends the ‘preacher’ (Romans 10:14) to preach the ‘gospel’ (2Thes. 2:13-14) for those He ‘is’ calling to Himself. The notion that a man simply decides to become a Christian is one of the many “MYTHS” that men like to delude themselves into believing . . .

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

First of all, true Christianity is ‘not’ a religion like Judaism (from the Lord God) or many of the manmade religions invented by men. True Christianity is a ‘relationship’ between God and the believer 'through' His Son (Christ 'IN' You) by the power of the Holy Spirit in our mortal bodies (1Cor. 3:16, 6:19 = Fig 2). If I told the Colorado man how I ‘know’ God and His Living Word, then you are in no way prepared to believe me. God’s Holy Spirit (water witness (in blue) of ‘The Word&#8217 communes with my spirit (Rom. 8:16) and testifies within my being like a cross between the Tree of Life in the Garden and life springing from a fountain from within like a flowing river. Since true Christianity is a ‘faith’ and no religion at all, then seeing these things requires us to ‘walk by faith and NOT by sight.’ 2Corinthians 5:7.

Why do you believe?

Believe? True Christianity is made up of ‘believers’ at the bottom rungs of what appears in the Spirit to be a massive Pyramid (pic) with Christ as the Head. Colossians 1:18. The very base of the pyramid has most of the believers, but those men of faith represent the mere common stones very much ‘dull of hearing.’ Seeds of faith within the man’s being (soul actually) begin to germinate and grow ‘shoots’ representing faith transitioning into ‘knowledge’ of God through His Living Word. The middle-part of the Heavenly Pyramid is comprised of these men of knowledge that ‘know’ the deeper things of God that require walking by faith every step of the way, until eventually branches appear along with the ‘fruit’ representing God’s Wisdom (my thread). The three stages of Christian development appear in this diagram (pic) from my work in “The Mystery Explained” (link).

Now that I have been walking with God through His Word for a very long time, then asking if I ‘believe’ is like asking the Colorado man if he believes in the grocery store. :0)

GL,

Terral

 

[Kalam]

Hi Colorado:

You opened up a big-ass can of worms, Colorado. Prepare to be assaulted with inane references to scriptural fairy tales.

 

[Againsheila]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers?

Probably not.

And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer.

Okay


Like I care if you believe?




Huh? If you believe that giving the store a dollar for a candy bar will get you a candy bar, then you don't believe in candy?

That convolution of logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.



Who can aswer that question, given its preposterous premise?



I'm not certain one can choose to believe, to be perfectly frank



What makes you presume that all believers believe that?

Did you CHOOSE to believe that? Obviously you did, even though you don't really KNOW that that's true.




How do you know that I know that? Is that your FAITH working to misinform you about what I believe?

Why do you believe?

Because it's easier than not believing, obviously.

Explain faith.

Faith is believing in something that is not provable.

Much like you have FAITH that you know what belivers believe, without having evidence to support your FAITH in that particular belief.

People wonder why Christians feel persecuted? Coloradoetc would be the first to cry foul at a person proselytizing on this board...but has no problems asking questions of those who are religious and at the same time threatening them that their answers won't be good enough.

This is not the first religion thread started by this person and this person only wants to argue and try and convince religious people that they are wrong, kind of proselytizing in the opposite direction.

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith. I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

I welcome honest questions about my faith but Coloradoetc...has no honest intention, only an intention to find a reason to attack, any reason. I discovered that in the last thread started by this person.

 

[Kalam]

I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

This may be correct, but...

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith.

Faith is delusional. Beliefs not rooted in logic make no sense... why not have faith in Russell's teapot?

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Againsheila]

I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

This may be correct, but...

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith.

Faith is delusional. Beliefs not rooted in logic make no sense... why not have faith in Russell's teapot?

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And once again, an attack, gee what a surprise.

 

[Kalam]

And once again, an attack, gee what a surprise.

I posed a question, not an attack. Why don't you have faith in Russell's teapot?

 

[tigerbob]

I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

This may be correct, but...

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith.

Faith is delusional. Beliefs not rooted in logic make no sense... why not have faith in Russell's teapot?

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why are you so interested in someone else's "delusion"? If it's not hurting you, what's the problem?

 

[tigerbob]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers?

Probably not.



Okay


Like I care if you believe?




Huh? If you believe that giving the store a dollar for a candy bar will get you a candy bar, then you don't believe in candy?

That convolution of logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.



Who can aswer that question, given its preposterous premise?



I'm not certain one can choose to believe, to be perfectly frank



What makes you presume that all believers believe that?

Did you CHOOSE to believe that? Obviously you did, even though you don't really KNOW that that's true.




How do you know that I know that? Is that your FAITH working to misinform you about what I believe?



Because it's easier than not believing, obviously.

Explain faith.

Faith is believing in something that is not provable.

Much like you have FAITH that you know what belivers believe, without having evidence to support your FAITH in that particular belief.

People wonder why Christians feel persecuted? Coloradoetc would be the first to cry foul at a person proselytizing on this board...but has no problems asking questions of those who are religious and at the same time threatening them that their answers won't be good enough.

This is not the first religion thread started by this person and this person only wants to argue and try and convince religious people that they are wrong, kind of proselytizing in the opposite direction.

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith. I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

I welcome honest questions about my faith but Coloradoetc...has no honest intention, only an intention to find a reason to attack, any reason. I discovered that in the last thread started by this person.

I posted my response earlier on and he hasn't attacked me on any of the points I made. Maybe it was an honest question. Maybe?

 

[Kalam]

Why are you so interested in someone else's "delusion"?

If I wasn't interested in other peoples' delusions, I wouldn't post on a political forum.

 

[tigerbob]

Why are you so interested in someone else's "delusion"?

If I wasn't interested in other peoples' delusions, I wouldn't post on a political forum.

Clearly, but I said "why".

 

[Kalam]

Why are you so interested in someone else's "delusion"?

If I wasn't interested in other peoples' delusions, I wouldn't post on a political forum.

Clearly, but I said "why".

Isn't criticizing others' beliefs and viewpoints part of debate?

I'm interested in these particular delusions because they've been masqueraded as incontrovertible fact throughout their entire history. It's time for people to wake up and smell the cognitive dissonance.

 

[tigerbob]

If I wasn't interested in other peoples' delusions, I wouldn't post on a political forum.

Clearly, but I said "why".

Isn't criticizing others' beliefs and viewpoints part of debate?

I'm interested in these particular delusions because they've been masqueraded as incontrovertible fact throughout their entire history. It's time for people to wake up and smell the cognitive dissonance.

I don't believe that Againsheila made any representations about them being either factual or incontrovertible. You appeared to accept this...

I believe as I believe and everyone else has the right to believe as they believe, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

This may be correct, but...

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith.

Faith is delusional. Beliefs not rooted in logic make no sense... why not have faith in Russell's teapot?

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...but then you started on the Russel's Teapot thing...

And once again, an attack, gee what a surprise.

I posed a question, not an attack. Why don't you have faith in Russell's teapot?

and now you are saying that people should wake up and smell the cognitive dissonance. That seems like an attack. As does the sentence "Faith is delusional". Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me. But you seem to be pushing your point harder than someone who is just "interested". Seems more like you want to undermine those who do have faith, to ridicule them.

Whatever though.

 

[YWN666]

I for one am sick of the attacks on my faith. Faith is faith, I don't have to prove it to anybody. I don't have to back up what I believe because someone else doesn't understand my faith.

As long as you don't demand that your religion is fact or the only true religion or try to legislate it, then you don't have to prove it to anyone.