For those that believe in Polls..Obama beats both Republican Front runners.

[Sallow]

Three years? Thirty years wouldn't be enough time with the policies this Administration has given us to address the economy. You don't get it...do you, Sallow? Barack Obama doesn't know HOW to fix this. Oh, he thought he did but that was because he'd been brainwashed into believing in progressive Keynesian theory about big government spending being the key to ending a recession. The proponents of that were Larry Summers and Christina Romer. In case you hadn't noticed, both of them had the good sense to abandon ship and run back to their tenured positions at Berkeley and Harvard when it became obvious that Keynesian policy was falling on it's proverbial face. Now Barack is left with that financial wizard, Timothy Geithner, the guy who couldn't figure out Turbo Tax, and between the two of them they couldn't come up with a plan to run a lemonade stand let alone the largest economy on the planet.

Do yourself a big favor and pray for Obama to lose in 2012. If he were to pull off that election? It would mean four more years of you having to come up with excuses as to why everything still sucks.

Sure I get it.

Roosevelt, singlehandely, created the Middle Class. There was none before his policies. None. Zip. Zero. Nadda.

There were the very rich..and the very poor.

THAT'S quite a SUCCESS. See..success means you accomplish something. It means you create something. The Middle Class in this country started around the end of WWII and kept growing until 1980 or so.

After that..it was a bumpy ride..until Clinton.

Another SUCCESS.

See how that works?

Obama has been a SUCCESS. Most reality based economists were saying we were coming out of the recession. Until 2010. What changed?

Oh yeah..the Tea Party's SUCCESS. Stopping the recovery dead in it's tracks and downgrading the bond rating.

Good fucking job boys.

Good job.

You really are amusing. The Tea Party didn't cause the bond rating downgrade. The Tea Party was calling for deficit reduction and cuts in government spending. The rating agencies were calling for deficit reduction and either an increase in revenue or cuts in spending. S&P was looking for deficit reduction in the neighborhood of 4 trillion dollars. The debt ceiling compromise called for deficit reduction of 1.5 trillion and the cuts were not specific but rather something to be determined in the future. So how is it that the Tea Party is responsible for the Federal Government not making sufficient deficit reductions? If it weren't FOR the Tea Party we wouldn't have gotten the 1.5 trillion because your guy Barack was calling for a "clean" debt ceiling raise without ANY mandated spending cuts. Or have you forgotten that?

Because that's usually how it's done.

And the money was going to PAY FOR THINGS REPUBLICANS BOUGHT.

 

[Warrior102]

No sir. You are wrong. The war was not lost. It was not won either at that point, but it was not lost. If it were lost, we would have surrendered and retreated back to our shores. It was not ost and my cousin certainly didnt appreciate hearing that his Majority Leader announced to the world that the war HE WAS STILL FIGHTING was lost.

Claim what you want about who was responsible for what, but the bottom line is this....Obama was the one who said that his economic analysts analyzed the economic situation and that we should trust him when he says we need to do A, B and C.

Well, he obviously just ASSUMED a little too much and he was wrong. The economy was not what he THOUGHT it was. Perhaps if he told us "well, I dont know what the story with the ecoinomy is and my team is way too lazy to analyze it but lets try A, B, and C....well then he can give out his excuses.....but he didnt. He claimed to know the situation and he didnt.

As for shovel ready.....seems you easily accepted his excuse. I expect that of his supporters.
But he was the one that promised us that his man Joe would oversee the 800 billion. I mean...lets be real....did he expect states who were struggling financially to do anything different?

And please....dont talk to me about the WTC project. Like you, I live here too. You and I both know what have been the roadblocks to that project. The fact that you credit Obama is really noit worth even responding to. It is like you are grasping for straws.

Let's review. 9/11 happens. The US invades Afghanistan. In a few weeks and with few casualties a small agile US military force made up mostly of spooks handily defeats the stone age taliban..and have Osama Bin Laden surrounded and writting his last will and testament. THEN..we INVADE Iraq! What happens? Osama gets away..and we quickly mow down the Iraqi forces..and fast. That's over in a few months. What does Bush do? Plays military fly boy and prances around the deck of an air craft carrier declaring victory.

What happens behind the scenes? Bush sends in L. Paul Bremer. Fucking brilliant move. They disband a military of over 300K war fighters. They don't collect their guns mind you..they just remove their source of income. Then, on wooden pallets, they ship billions in tax payer dollars on cargo planes to Iraq. THEN THEY OPEN A FUCKING STOCK MARKET IN IRAQ. They get rid of the ONLY POLITICAL PARTY IN IRAQ. Then they de-nationalize ALL INDUSTRY and have a firesale. So now you have all the "Coalition of the Willing" nations running the Iraqi economy. There are indonesian truck drivers. There are Koreans working at the cement factories. There are Americans trying to start up cell phone companies. What do you also have? 300,000 former war fighters, with guns, and NO INCOME. You have no one policing the streets, picking up the garbage, handling complaints ..nothing. Electricity..which use to be on all the time..is now on once..maybe twice a week. What happens? The war fighters get pissed and loot the museum. "Boys will be boys" says Cheney. Then, one of the most holiest of holy muslims sites..the Blue Mosque gets blown up. That did it. Full on insurgency. The US starts losing terroritory..and in the midst of this..guess what? Pictures come out of Abu Gharib of Americans torturing Iraqis. The eggheads also make the stunning pronouncement that 9 billion dollars went missing.

Yeah..a loss is to kind a word. It was a cluster fuck. That's why Rummy got to boot. That's why Gates was sent in.

your hatred for Bush makes it impossible to debate you.

and just an example...

"prances around the deck of a cv".....

You are not military and you do not understand the need to boost morale...so go with it if you wish.

Need to end this debate with you. You are way too off today.

WHat the fuck does that imbecile know about serving aboard a "CV."

First off, it was a CVN.

 

[Warrior102]

Swallow = Mission Accomplished. Spends another day bashing Bush.

What's on tap for tonight? A war protest? Burning the flag? Spitting on soldiers.

Such a Liberal puss.

 

[Sallow]

your hatred for Bush makes it impossible to debate you.

and just an example...

"prances around the deck of a cv".....

You are not military and you do not understand the need to boost morale...so go with it if you wish.

Need to end this debate with you. You are way too off today.

Jarhead.

That was NEVER EVER done in the history of this country.

Pretty shocked by your retort to this.

I put in a nutshell why the Iraqi invasion was a blooming failure.

And not one point was addressed.

 

[Sallow]

Swallow = Mission Accomplished. Spends another day bashing Bush.

What's on tap for tonight? A war protest? Burning the flag? Spitting on soldiers.

Such a Liberal puss.

You a soothsayer too as well as a hairy quifter? Man..you are multitalented, as well as stinky, WarriorTakesItUptheAss102.

I know what I'd wish for you tonight.

A bath in clean water..and some soap. Maybe a barber.

 

[OODA_Loop]

No President had the stones to land a plane on a "CV"

 

[Jarhead]

your hatred for Bush makes it impossible to debate you.

and just an example...

"prances around the deck of a cv".....

You are not military and you do not understand the need to boost morale...so go with it if you wish.

Need to end this debate with you. You are way too off today.

Jarhead.

That was NEVER EVER done in the history of this country.

Pretty shocked by your retort to this.

I put in a nutshell why the Iraqi invasion was a blooming failure.

And not one point was addressed.

Sorry Bro...but you are not a military officer of any kind. You are not qualified to determine whether a military operation is a failure or not......nor is Brian Williams, Jay Leno, Keith Olbermann or Sean hannity.

And nor am I.

But I know one thing for sure. Military operations are not black and white. They tend to be pr-active at the onset and sometimes are forced to be re-active.

Well...in this case, we were pro-active and then realized we were dealing with a unique situation. The enemy was willing to capitalize on the fact that we are humane and they opted to use children as human sheilds.

So we needed to be re-active and change our strategy.

But then we had a second enemy come into play. The opposing party to the president who kept on questioning the moves of our military...yeah....like Hillary Clinton knew more about what the military should do over a 4 star general...

And then the next enemy....24-7 of cable news....taking claim that THEY knew better than the 4 star general.

So you see Sallow....whereas I am not questioning the Wisdom of our current CiC and the decisions he makes based on the advice of his ground commanders....I didnt do the same with Bush.

I am not qualified to do so.

And neither was Reid.

And neither are you.

 

[Oldstyle]

Sure I get it.

Roosevelt, singlehandely, created the Middle Class. There was none before his policies. None. Zip. Zero. Nadda.

There were the very rich..and the very poor.

THAT'S quite a SUCCESS. See..success means you accomplish something. It means you create something. The Middle Class in this country started around the end of WWII and kept growing until 1980 or so.

After that..it was a bumpy ride..until Clinton.

Another SUCCESS.

See how that works?

Obama has been a SUCCESS. Most reality based economists were saying we were coming out of the recession. Until 2010. What changed?

Oh yeah..the Tea Party's SUCCESS. Stopping the recovery dead in it's tracks and downgrading the bond rating.

Good fucking job boys.

Good job.

You really are amusing. The Tea Party didn't cause the bond rating downgrade. The Tea Party was calling for deficit reduction and cuts in government spending. The rating agencies were calling for deficit reduction and either an increase in revenue or cuts in spending. S&P was looking for deficit reduction in the neighborhood of 4 trillion dollars. The debt ceiling compromise called for deficit reduction of 1.5 trillion and the cuts were not specific but rather something to be determined in the future. So how is it that the Tea Party is responsible for the Federal Government not making sufficient deficit reductions? If it weren't FOR the Tea Party we wouldn't have gotten the 1.5 trillion because your guy Barack was calling for a "clean" debt ceiling raise without ANY mandated spending cuts. Or have you forgotten that?

Because that's usually how it's done.

And the money was going to PAY FOR THINGS REPUBLICANS BOUGHT.

I'm well aware that's how it's "usually" done, Sallow but "usually" we don't have rating agencies telling us to cut our deficit by 4 trillion or face a downgrade. When Barack Obama called for that "clean" debt ceiling raise he was totally ignoring what S&P was warning him would happen. His idiot Treasury Secretary was running around promising everyone that there's no way that the US would ever be downgraded. The downgrade wasn't the fault of the Tea Party...it was the fault of politicians in Washington doing things as they "usually" do.

 

[Jarhead]

No President had the stones to land a plane on a "CV"

are you making fun of my use of the term CV?

 

[Jarhead]

Swallow = Mission Accomplished. Spends another day bashing Bush.

What's on tap for tonight? A war protest? Burning the flag? Spitting on soldiers.

Such a Liberal puss.

You a soothsayer too as well as a hairy quifter? Man..you are multitalented, as well as stinky, WarriorTakesItUptheAss102.

I know what I'd wish for you tonight.

A bath in clean water..and some soap. Maybe a barber.

well...based on that...

Seems you need a face lift...some teeth whiteners...and well....maybe a dog tag?

 

[Sallow]

your hatred for Bush makes it impossible to debate you.

and just an example...

"prances around the deck of a cv".....

You are not military and you do not understand the need to boost morale...so go with it if you wish.

Need to end this debate with you. You are way too off today.

Jarhead.

That was NEVER EVER done in the history of this country.

Pretty shocked by your retort to this.

I put in a nutshell why the Iraqi invasion was a blooming failure.

And not one point was addressed.

Sorry Bro...but you are not a military officer of any kind. You are not qualified to determine whether a military operation is a failure or not......nor is Brian Williams, Jay Leno, Keith Olbermann or Sean hannity.

And nor am I.

But I know one thing for sure. Military operations are not black and white. They tend to be pr-active at the onset and sometimes are forced to be re-active.

Well...in this case, we were pro-active and then realized we were dealing with a unique situation. The enemy was willing to capitalize on the fact that we are humane and they opted to use children as human sheilds.

So we needed to be re-active and change our strategy.

But then we had a second enemy come into play. The opposing party to the president who kept on questioning the moves of our military...yeah....like Hillary Clinton knew more about what the military should do over a 4 star general...

And then the next enemy....24-7 of cable news....taking claim that THEY knew better than the 4 star general.

So you see Sallow....whereas I am not questioning the Wisdom of our current CiC and the decisions he makes based on the advice of his ground commanders....I didnt do the same with Bush.

I am not qualified to do so.

And neither was Reid.

And neither are you.

Um..

You guys really got get something straight. The military serves the civilians in this country. Not the other way around.

 

[Sallow]

Because that's usually how it's done.

And the money was going to PAY FOR THINGS REPUBLICANS BOUGHT.

I'm well aware that's how it's "usually" done, Sallow but "usually" we don't have rating agencies telling us to cut our deficit by 4 trillion or face a downgrade. When Barack Obama called for that "clean" debt ceiling raise he was totally ignoring what S&P was warning him would happen. His idiot Treasury Secretary was running around promising everyone that there's no way that the US would ever be downgraded. The downgrade wasn't the fault of the Tea Party...it was the fault of politicians in Washington doing things as they "usually" do.

First off..ratings agencies don't get to tell the government to do anything. Second off these are the very same ratings agencies that gave mortgage backed derivatives their blessing. Third off, S&P, cited government inaction because of congress as part of their rational for the downgrade..something by the way..I do not agree with. The whole ratings are calculated with math..not punditry. So this is a first..in the history of bond ratings.

 

[Jarhead]

Jarhead.

That was NEVER EVER done in the history of this country.

Pretty shocked by your retort to this.

I put in a nutshell why the Iraqi invasion was a blooming failure.

And not one point was addressed.

Sorry Bro...but you are not a military officer of any kind. You are not qualified to determine whether a military operation is a failure or not......nor is Brian Williams, Jay Leno, Keith Olbermann or Sean hannity.

And nor am I.

But I know one thing for sure. Military operations are not black and white. They tend to be pr-active at the onset and sometimes are forced to be re-active.

Well...in this case, we were pro-active and then realized we were dealing with a unique situation. The enemy was willing to capitalize on the fact that we are humane and they opted to use children as human sheilds.

So we needed to be re-active and change our strategy.

But then we had a second enemy come into play. The opposing party to the president who kept on questioning the moves of our military...yeah....like Hillary Clinton knew more about what the military should do over a 4 star general...

And then the next enemy....24-7 of cable news....taking claim that THEY knew better than the 4 star general.

So you see Sallow....whereas I am not questioning the Wisdom of our current CiC and the decisions he makes based on the advice of his ground commanders....I didnt do the same with Bush.

I am not qualified to do so.

And neither was Reid.

And neither are you.

Um..

You guys really got get something straight. The military serves the civilians in this country. Not the other way around.

I see it no other way.

What you need to get straight is we have a military leaders who are trained in a way you and most others will NEVER be trained.

For you to think you can determine their success/failure is ludicrous.

When I was at the pit right after the buildings collapsed....i followed the lead of the fire department. I did not assume I knew better...becuase I didnt. I did as they ordered.

If my accountant says "you cant deduct that" I dont deduct it anyway. He knows better.

Yet...the fire department serves me and my accountant serves me.

Your logic is a bit askew here.

 

[Sallow]

I see it no other way.

What you need to get straight is we have a military leaders who are trained in a way you and most others will NEVER be trained.

For you to think you can determine their success/failure is ludicrous.

When I was at the pit right after the buildings collapsed....i followed the lead of the fire department. I did not assume I knew better...becuase I didnt. I did as they ordered.

If my accountant says "you cant deduct that" I dont deduct it anyway. He knows better.

Yet...the fire department serves me and my accountant serves me.

Your logic is a bit askew here.

Um..I worked in the financial industry for 14 years. 1 year as a consultant for companies like Garban Bond Trading..and the rest as an employee for the NYSE. I bring it up from time to time..but I won't "lord" over anyone who comments about the economy. This is an opinion board. I have no problem with people telling me their expertise on a topic because it was their line of work. The quandry starts when people start saying "your opinion is less valid because you don't do <insert line of work here>.

From where I sat..and using the sources (some of which were people that were actually there I was corresponding with) that I had..I derived my opinion.

You may not like it..but I am entitled to it. As is EVERY AMERICAN.

Dig?

 

[Jarhead]

No President had the stones to land a plane on a "CV"

CV is the Naval designation for a flat top

 

[francoHFW]

In the same way you follow firemen's advice on fighting a fire, you follow military advice on how to fight, but lots of people cab tell what the goals should be, and whether they are achieved.Thanks ALWAYS for their service. Unless they're court martialed.

 

[Jarhead]

I see it no other way.

What you need to get straight is we have a military leaders who are trained in a way you and most others will NEVER be trained.

For you to think you can determine their success/failure is ludicrous.

When I was at the pit right after the buildings collapsed....i followed the lead of the fire department. I did not assume I knew better...becuase I didnt. I did as they ordered.

If my accountant says "you cant deduct that" I dont deduct it anyway. He knows better.

Yet...the fire department serves me and my accountant serves me.

Your logic is a bit askew here.

Um..I worked in the financial industry for 14 years. 1 year as a consultant for companies like Garban Bond Trading..and the rest as an employee for the NYSE. I bring it up from time to time..but I won't "lord" over anyone who comments about the economy. This is an opinion board. I have no problem with people telling me their expertise on a topic because it was their line of work. The quandry starts when people start saying "your opinion is less valid because you don't do <insert line of work here>.

From where I sat..and using the sources (some of which were people that were actually there I was corresponding with) that I had..I derived my opinion.

You may not like it..but I am entitled to it. As is EVERY AMERICAN.

Dig?

yeah...sure...I have given you reason to think I dont like you....

Bear in mind....your comment was "we DID lose the war".....

It was not stated as an opinion and I gave you reason as to why you are not qualtified to make that statement.

Did not mean to insult you and I can see how you took it that way.

No harm meant.

But off the record...if you spoke with my cousin.....it was very demoralizing to our troops when they heard what Reid said...and trust me...THEY ALL HEARD IT.....the enemy used that.....they couldnt walk through a town without hearing it on tape OVER AND OVER.

It was irresponsible for Reid....and that was my point...and then, you came back with ....the war WAS lost....

anyway.....you know who loves ya Sallow....i thought I have made that quite clear.

 

[Firehorse]

Obama will get union money, but don't be so certain that people once they get behind the curtain are going to vote for him ... Unions are made up of Americans ... Americans don't have a history of voting for a socialist

 

[Sallow]

yeah...sure...I have given you reason to think I dont like you....

Bear in mind....your comment was "we DID lose the war".....

It was not stated as an opinion and I gave you reason as to why you are not qualtified to make that statement.

Did not mean to insult you and I can see how you took it that way.

No harm meant.

But off the record...if you spoke with my cousin.....it was very demoralizing to our troops when they heard what Reid said...and trust me...THEY ALL HEARD IT.....the enemy used that.....they couldnt walk through a town without hearing it on tape OVER AND OVER.

It was irresponsible for Reid....and that was my point...and then, you came back with ....the war WAS lost....

anyway.....you know who loves ya Sallow....i thought I have made that quite clear.

I talked to people there too..including a few co-workers (several from the first invasion and one from the second one) about Iraq.

They didn't call it "The Suck" for nothing.

 

[francoHFW]

Keep calling him a socialist. 60% of the country KNOWS that's insane. Works for the dittohead base.