For Bootneck

[Annie]

Saw this, thought of you:

Red Flag

A missive arrived to me from a well-placed British officer. I know this officer well, and respect his abilities. He has been to both Iraq and Afghanistan. In part, the missive said:

“Please have a look at the attached from the UK Times. Regarding the Rachel Sylvester piece, we have not been able to find any such document/memo although it is possible that an e-mail exists somewhere that refers to such a matter – more likely to be a warning not to dick about regarding what extra troops the UK might be able to find for AFG and raise unrealistic US expectations.”​

Rachel Sylvester US doubts about UK military effectiveness 6 Jan 09.pdf

The Special Relationship Times leader 7 Jan 09.pdf
The words imply that the US-UK relationship is fraying. This is untrue as seen from the foxholes I am constantly in. I have embedded with numerous British units in Iraq and Afghanistan, and have seen combat with all of those units. Maybe five or so. The units included 2 Rifles, 4 Rifles, Queen's Royal Lancers, Duke of Lancaster's, 2 Para, and I believe perhaps a couple more though there was much going on and it’s difficult to remember.​

What I can say, is that the significant combat I saw with British soldiers made me respect them more with each battle. Yes, it’s true their gear needs serious upgrading. The British government needs to spend billions to upgrade the hardware. But when it comes to the soldier, British soldiers are extremely well-trained, courageous and ready for a big firefight at the drop of a hat. Our brothers and sisters are vastly outnumbered at Helmand Province in Afghanistan. I think about them several times a day and am concerned that they might take serious losses this year.

When the question comes up about what Americans think about our closest ally, I ask MANY American soldiers what they think of the British. There are mixed opinions of course, but the bottom line is that American combat veterans greatly respect British soldiers. The British just need better gear. Another well-placed British Army officer recently told me while I was in Afghanistan that the British have plenty of helicopters. I did not respect those words, though I was told by an important American officer that this British officer is very good. “Don’t bullshit me, sir,” I replied only in my head. “I Don’t like BS.” The British need more helicopters. The American and British soldiers know this. A problem with the British soldiers is similar to a problem with our own Marines. They refuse to complain, so they get leftovers. A retired Australian officer of great significance asked me what I thought of British soldiers. I said something to the effect of, “My opinion is suspect because I greatly respect British soldiers…” If I did not respect British soldiers, I would not keep going into combat with them.

I have common access to the basement and stratosphere of our military. Nobody wants to see the British go. Strangely, both the British and American officers give high praise to the French. The French actually will fight like mad dogs, they say....

 

[Bootneck]

Hi Annie, thanks for bringing it to my attention. You know, it never ceases to amaze me how much of what emanates from government and upper echelon sources often bears little resemblance to reality!

One of the most laughable elements of this article is the statement that we are not short of helicopters. People who make such statements should spend a few weeks with the British troops in Afghanistan. I guarantee they would change their tune in no time at all. Can't even call 'em REMFs, just complete tossers. Pity they couldn't be with us on Christmas day, our eighteenth day of fighting Operation Sond Chara around the town of Nad-e-Ali to capture four key Taliban strongholds. Still, I guess they were drinking sherry and telling their gathered audiences how well THEY were doing in Afghanistan. I bet none of them can name any one of the guys we lost over that three weeks, but when it comes to telling others how well equipped we are, they tghink they are experts.

 

[Annie]

Hi Annie, thanks for bringing it to my attention. You know, it never ceases to amaze me how much of what emanates from government and upper echelon sources often bears little resemblance to reality!

One of the most laughable elements of this article is the statement that we are not short of helicopters. People who make such statements should spend a few weeks with the British troops in Afghanistan. I guarantee they would change their tune in no time at all. Can't even call 'em REMFs, just complete tossers. Pity they couldn't be with us on Christmas day, our eighteenth day of fighting Operation Sond Chara around the town of Nad-e-Ali to capture four key Taliban strongholds. Still, I guess they were drinking sherry and telling their gathered audiences how well THEY were doing in Afghanistan. I bet none of them can name any one of the guys we lost over that three weeks, but when it comes to telling others how well equipped we are, they tghink they are experts.

I probably trust Michael Yon more than any reporter regarding Iran/Afghanistan. He and supporters have paid his own way, nearly since the beginning in 2002/3. He is truly the Ernie Pyle of our times.

 

[Munin]

"Strangely, both the British and American officers give high praise to the French. The French actually will fight like mad dogs, they say...."

I didn't know this before, can anyone confirm this and why it was said?

For me it just seems that the American military has always been prioritized in the US and in the UK (and many other Nations) it hasn't been for a long while.

And BTW: shouldn't this thread be in the "US Military" section of the forum?

 

[Bootneck]

I probably trust Michael Yon more than any reporter regarding Iran/Afghanistan. He and supporters have paid his own way, nearly since the beginning in 2002/3. He is truly the Ernie Pyle of our times.

I've just been reading through some of his reports and I'm very impressed.I've bookmarked the site and will take great interest in following it.

 

[Annie]

I've just been reading through some of his reports and I'm very impressed.I've bookmarked the site and will take great interest in following it.

Two best imbeds imho, Yon and Michael Totten. Check Totten out too.

 

[Gunny]

Hi Annie, thanks for bringing it to my attention. You know, it never ceases to amaze me how much of what emanates from government and upper echelon sources often bears little resemblance to reality!

One of the most laughable elements of this article is the statement that we are not short of helicopters. People who make such statements should spend a few weeks with the British troops in Afghanistan. I guarantee they would change their tune in no time at all. Can't even call 'em REMFs, just complete tossers. Pity they couldn't be with us on Christmas day, our eighteenth day of fighting Operation Sond Chara around the town of Nad-e-Ali to capture four key Taliban strongholds. Still, I guess they were drinking sherry and telling their gathered audiences how well THEY were doing in Afghanistan. I bet none of them can name any one of the guys we lost over that three weeks, but when it comes to telling others how well equipped we are, they tghink they are experts.

Of course we're never short of helicopters.

Last time I deployed, I touched down in Kuwait in a CH-46 that was as old as I was. It still bore the unit markings from its unit in Vietnam (1stBn 9thMarines).

Watch those same politicians go into damage control overdrive though when a couple of them fall out of the sky. They start blaming the service for using antiquated equipment and get the general public riled up and calling for some Marines' heads through the media when the fact is, not providing specific funding for purchase of new equipment is Congress's fault.

btw ... Welcome back. Glad to see you had a successful tour.

 

[tigerbob]

I find it absolutely astonishing that anyone in Britain could ever believe that the investment in equipment for our troops in the field has been anything other than a national disgrace for many years.

Anyone who is likely to come under fire (or who is supporting those coming under fire) should have the very best equipment available, not just in the field but in training as well.

I know this is sometimes not possible, but it should be the exception rather than the rule. As with everything, politicians are ready at the drop of a hat to divert funding to a pet project and then to point the finger elsewhere when the chickens come home to roost.

It's a fucking scandal, IMO.

 

[Gunny]

I find it absolutely astonishing that anyone in Britain could ever believe that the investment in equipment for our troops in the field has been anything other than a national disgrace for many years.

Anyone who is likely to come under fire (or who is supporting those coming under fire) should have the very best equipment available, not just in the field but in training as well.

I know this is sometimes not possible, but it should be the exception rather than the rule. As with everything, politicians are ready at the drop of a hat to divert funding to a pet project and then to point the finger elsewhere when the chickens come home to roost.

It's a fucking scandal, IMO.

What's sad to me is you have all these people whining about where the money is going to come from, when all we need to do is look at our governments. I GUARANTEE that is someone went through them with a broom and started actually making people/agencies account for their expenditures, there's probably enough money to be found to pay off our deficit.

Yet we just keep letting out governments get bigger and bigger.

 

[Sunni Man]

The British politicians know that Afghanistain is a lost cause.

They were defeated there before and realise the out come won't be any different this time.

Rudyard Kipling's poem reflects this reality:

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle an’ blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.

 

[Bootneck]

Of course we're never short of helicopters.

Last time I deployed, I touched down in Kuwait in a CH-46 that was as old as I was. It still bore the unit markings from its unit in Vietnam (1stBn 9thMarines).

Watch those same politicians go into damage control overdrive though when a couple of them fall out of the sky. They start blaming the service for using antiquated equipment and get the general public riled up and calling for some Marines' heads through the media when the fact is, not providing specific funding for purchase of new equipment is Congress's fault.

It's getting more difficult for our politicians to wriggle out of their responsibilities, although they still try. There has been a number of coroner's inquests where the blame for several deaths in Afghanistan, (primarily those killed by IEDs) has been laid squarely at the door of government. Too many unprotected LandRovers in service and not enough suitably armoured vehicles. Public opinion has swung against government on this and they're having to pull out the proverbial finger, albeit rather late.

btw ... Welcome back. Glad to see you had a successful tour.

Thanks Gunny. Only a short stay though. Two weeks leave and then back to Hell Land.

 

[Bootneck]

The British politicians know that Afghanistain is a lost cause.

They were defeated there before and realise the out come won't be any different this time.

Rudyard Kipling's poem reflects this reality:

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle an’ blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.

Hey, five knuckle shuffler, why don't you go forth and multiply! Funny how you armchair terrorists seem to know everything, when in fact, you know nothing. The dead ones left on the plains are your pals the Taliban, mate.

Take your fucking ignorant platitudes and shove 'em up that orifice where you keep your brains.

 

[Bootneck]

I find it absolutely astonishing that anyone in Britain could ever believe that the investment in equipment for our troops in the field has been anything other than a national disgrace for many years.

Anyone who is likely to come under fire (or who is supporting those coming under fire) should have the very best equipment available, not just in the field but in training as well.

I know this is sometimes not possible, but it should be the exception rather than the rule. As with everything, politicians are ready at the drop of a hat to divert funding to a pet project and then to point the finger elsewhere when the chickens come home to roost.

It's a fucking scandal, IMO.

Amen to that brother! The reality is though, that politicians are in it for themselves and no one else. Can't have them diverting funds away from their gold plated pensions and fat allowances. Even if it does mean sending an army to war without a full tool box. Did you know they've even closed down the last of our military hospitals?

 

[Sunni Man]

Amen to that brother! The reality is though, that politicians are in it for themselves and no one else. Can't have them diverting funds away from their gold plated pensions and fat allowances. Even if it does mean sending an army to war without a full tool box. Did you know they've even closed down the last of our military hospitals?

The politicians know that Afghanistan is a lost cause and are tired of throwing money away into a black hole.

 

[Bootneck]

The politicians know that Afghanistan is a lost cause and are tired of throwing money away into a black hole.

What would a Taliban supporter like you, know about British politics. From what I've read of your posts you seem to be ignorant of most things.

 

[Sunni Man]

Afghanistain has historically been the grave yard of Empires.

Alexander the Great, British Empire, Soviet Union

Now the United States is heading down the same path.

 

[tigerbob]

Yet we just keep letting out governments get bigger and bigger.

Seems to me that is by design, not accident, and for several reasons:

1. Deniability. The more civil servants are employed, the more the blame for a fuck up can be spread around. Any good politician can always find a Civil Servant to blame. This bureaucrat will either be moved to a new role (probably with a pay rise), or will be pensioned off early with the opportunity to make a small fortune in the private sector or as a political lobbyist.

2. The illusion of action. Rather than make decisions for which someone may later be held to account, it is far more politically expedient to form a committee to look into something. This process can be strung out for months, even years, by which time the person on the hook for making the decision will probably have changed and, even if not, the issue that was being investigated will have been off the front page for several months. At very least, if asked what is being done, the ready response of "The committee is looking into it and developing recommendations, and it would not be right of me to pre-empt their findings by commenting at this time" can always be made, and the 'illusion of action' is complete.

3. Shifting focus. Politicians aren't interested in solving problems. They are interested in getting the credit for things that go well and not getting the blame for things that don't. An easy way to do this is to construct a new methodology for measuring progress. Take crime figures. Look at the way serious crime is measured and I can almost guarantee that the units of measure change every 18 months or so. This allows new successes to be found and publicized, while failures can be blamed on changes in the methodology (the 'apples and oranges' defense). Such changes will usually require a report of some form or other to recommend how results should be measured, along with increases in staffing to accommodate the new methodology.

And of course, bureaucrats well understand how much politicians come to rely on them...

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IjyrpQYQB8o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IjyrpQYQB8o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[Gunny]

It's getting more difficult for our politicians to wriggle out of their responsibilities, although they still try. There has been a number of coroner's inquests where the blame for several deaths in Afghanistan, (primarily those killed by IEDs) has been laid squarely at the door of government. Too many unprotected LandRovers in service and not enough suitably armoured vehicles. Public opinion has swung against government on this and they're having to pull out the proverbial finger, albeit rather late.



Thanks Gunny. Only a short stay though. Two weeks leave and then back to Hell Land.

Damn ... never a break huh? Enjoy your time off.

 

[Gunny]

Afghanistain has historically been the grave yard of Empires.

Alexander the Great, British Empire, Soviet Union

Now the United States is heading down the same path.

Your act has gotten WAY old. Don't you have to go face your ass and headbutt your rug a few hundred times?

 

[Bootneck]

Afghanistain has historically been the grave yard of Empires.

Alexander the Great, British Empire, Soviet Union

Now the United States is heading down the same path.

Hey Sunni Man! Keep taking the medication!