For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers

[JoeB131]

The important point here is whether you promised to do "that thing". You might argue that a business owner is making an implied promise to serve everyone when they open a storefront. I don't necessarily think that's the case, but even if it is, a business owner who wants to discriminate can easily modify that implied promise by posting a sign at the front door clarifying their intent to serve only customers of their choosing.

But, that isn't allowed. So the point here isn't that business owners aren't fulfilling a promise. It's that PA laws force them into a promise against their will.

Yes, that isn't allowed. Because the "Public" is accommodating that business through taxes, police and fire protection, infrastructure, utilities, and a lot of other things businesses get because they provide jobs and services to the community.

Therefore, they are a "Public Accommodation" and need to serve the public. Period.

More to the point, Melissa Klein actually INVITED the Cryer-Bowmans to patronize their business.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-25119-bittersweet_cake.html

Cryer was in a lesbian relationship with her longtime partner, Laurel Bowman, and she says Klein was aware of that fact. Nonetheless, as Cryer would later recall, Klein encouraged Cryer and Bowman to return to her bakery if they ever decided to get married. Sweet Cakes by Melissa, they recall Klein telling them, would be happy to bake their wedding cake.

Laurel:Actually [Melissa Klein] said, “Have you thought about getting married?” and Rachel said, “Oh no, I’m never getting married.” And we just made the joke about it, and she said, “Well, if you decide to, come back.” And that was the last thing we really said about it.

Rachel and Laurel made an appointment to meet with Melissa Klein for a tasting at Sweet Cakes by Melissa on Jan. 17, 2013. (Klein says she saw Rachel and her mother at the bridal show but did not remember them.) Laurel couldn’t go to the cake-tasting appointment, so Rachel and her mother went.

Rachel:We get there and see Mr. Klein behind the counter. We had never met him before and never had any interaction with him. We were a little put off that it was him and not her, just because we had such a rapport with Melissa.

The first thing he says is, “To get started, we need to get the bride and groom’s name.” And I just kind of giggled a little, and I think maybe she didn’t tell him and he didn’t know. I was like, “Oh, it’s two brides.” And he put his clipboard down and he just said, “Well, I’m sorry, but we don’t do same-sex weddings here.”

 

[Claudette]

Last I heard this was a free country.

If your a bigot or a racist you shouldn't have to do something you're not comfortable doing.

If others don't like it. Tough. Fucking. Shit.

YOu have a right to not doing something. Your business does not, especially after you promised to do that thing.

The interesting thing was that Melissa knew this couple was gay, and invited them to the shop. It was the HUSBAND who went all crazy and shit.

If they promised then I have to agree with you. If they didn't make that promise Its their business and they should be able to serve a customer. Or not serve a customer.

 

[dblack]

Yes, that isn't allowed. Because the "Public" is accommodating that business through taxes, police and fire protection, infrastructure, utilities, and a lot of other things businesses get because they provide jobs and services to the community.

Therefore, they are a "Public Accommodation" and need to serve the public. Period.

Bingo. And that's exactly why PA laws are so important to statists such as yourself. Expanding government control over business is the whole point.

 

[Bonzi]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

 

[Bonzi]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

I don't, I assume they're stupid...

 

[Bonzi]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

I don't, I assume they're stupid...

Opinions vary....
I happen to think it's a mistake to not consider and open your heart to God (but I won't say stupid, because, unfortunately, many people are just blinded to the Truth). I would say they are just too proud and tied up in the things of this world.... but, not stupid...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I am just wondering how far you are willing to take your strict adherence to the Bible in doing your business.

Okay. So you don't want to provide wedding services to gay folks because Leviticus 18:22 says so.

Well, why stop there?

The Bible also says that adultery and sex before marriage are wrong. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 is very clear a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night shall be stoned. Admittedly, it might be a bit harsh to determine who is a virgin, but you could at least eliminate the 50% of women who live with their boyfriends before marriage.

Okay, next up, we need to talk about what you are wearing, Girlfriend. Deuteronomy 22:5 says that a woman shall not wear clothing meant for a man. That means all you ladies who wear slacks and jeans and pantsuits! Clearly, a truly biblical business can't work for such sinners!

and if that's too "Old Testament" for you, 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3 both state women should wear neither braids nor jewelry. so if they plan to wear any of that at their wedding, clearly it would offend your magic fairy in the sky to no end.

Hey, and Heaven forbid that they be one of those "liberated" women who write their own vows at a wedding.

Ephesians 5:22-24 says that they should totally submit to their husbands, and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 says they should keep their mouths shut in church.

So really, now that you've eliminated about 99% of your potential customers, you can no doubt say that your objections to serving gays was really about the Bible... because you are also following all the other rules the bible sets down.

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

I don't, I assume they're stupid...

Opinions vary....
I happen to think it's a mistake to not consider and open your heart to God (but I won't say stupid, because, unfortunately, many people are just blinded to the Truth). I would say they are just too proud and tied up in the things of this world.... but, not stupid...

Anyone who believes in God is a moron. The world works exactly as you'd expect it to without an eternal being. Believing in one is childish and means you are imposing your views on reality not taking it as it comes. And should there be a god or gods, it's possible, based on what happens here he or they would in no way be worth worshiping...

 

[LittleNipper]

And if you are gay you should only support a GAY bakery and leave everyone else alone. That is exactly what a Christian should do. They should live by example and not THREATS. Only evil doers make trouble for everyone who disagrees with them. This is exactly what the militant homosexual community is doing. They are libeling everyone who has an opinion other than their own. If I don't agree with a business's practices I simply go elsewhere. I do not believe in giving others I disagree with a black eye. Those who would hand a hundred thousand dollars over to someone simply because their feelings were hurt are even worse than those who are profiting at the expense of biblical values. People need to grow up and quit acting like spoiled babies.

The Kleins were fined 135,000 because they publicized the names of this couple and their family was threatened by "good christians".

They were given plenty of oppurtunities to resolve this issue. They chose not to.

Questions begged to be asked:

Did the bakery divulge their names before or after they were threatened with a lawsuit?
Is there any moral reason to withhold the names of any couple pursuing a public pronouncement of "marriage"?
What constitutes a Christian?
What constitutes a "good" person?

 

[LittleNipper]

Last I heard this was a free country.

If your a bigot or a racist you shouldn't have to do something you're not comfortable doing.

If others don't like it. Tough. Fucking. Shit.

YOu have a right to not doing something. Your business does not, especially after you promised to do that thing.

The important point here is whether you promised to do "that thing". You might argue that a business owner is making an implied promise to serve everyone when they open a storefront. I don't necessarily think that's the case, but even if it is, a business owner who wants to discriminate can easily modify that implied promise by posting a sign at the front door clarifying their intent to serve only customers of their choosing.

But, that isn's allowed. So the point here isn't that business owners aren't fulfilling a promise. It's that PA laws force them into a promise against their will.

Nonsense.

It's exactly what's going on.

Business owners are subject to all manner of necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory measures – public accommodations laws among them, where such measures are authorized by the Commerce Clause, no different than requiring business owners to pay a minimum wage or afford employees safe working conditions.

The question is whether curbing bigotry is a "compelling government interest".

One may also ask if bigotry is a moral issue or a political one? If it is a moral issue, then perhaps it actually constitutes a "CHURCH/RELIGIOUS" concern. A "Christian" is governed by a HIGHER AUTHORITY! And a Christian's business should be above reproach instead of wallowing in the "moral" codes pronounced by government ---- if indeed any government which believes it is not under God's authority can be "moral". (One Nation Under God)

And again. There are historical indications that our government is acting in anyway but Constitutional. Our Constitution rests on the shoulders of the Declaration of Independence (which declares Divinely ENDOWED Rights) and not on Jefferson's letter to some Baptist Church.

 

[LittleNipper]

Refusing to make a cake for a wedding (or provide any service for a wedding between people of the same sex) is like "condoning" the marriage in a Christian's eyes.

If our laws dictate that you get fined and go to jail by putting your religious convictions first, so be it.

Just because they won't make a cake, doesn't mean they "hate". That's all.

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

I don't, I assume they're stupid...

Opinions vary....
I happen to think it's a mistake to not consider and open your heart to God (but I won't say stupid, because, unfortunately, many people are just blinded to the Truth). I would say they are just too proud and tied up in the things of this world.... but, not stupid...

Anyone who believes in God is a moron. The world works exactly as you'd expect it to without an eternal being. Believing in one is childish and means you are imposing your views on reality not taking it as it comes. And should there be a god or gods, it's possible, based on what happens here he or they would in no way be worth worshiping...

Anyone who cannot prove the nonexistence of GOD and would call others who clearly see God's leading "morons" is a fool. I'd rather be a moron.

 

[Bonzi]

Change, adapt, or face the consequences of breaking the law. Your choice.

I already conceded that point......
Just don't assume they hate Gays.

I don't, I assume they're stupid...

Opinions vary....
I happen to think it's a mistake to not consider and open your heart to God (but I won't say stupid, because, unfortunately, many people are just blinded to the Truth). I would say they are just too proud and tied up in the things of this world.... but, not stupid...

Anyone who believes in God is a moron. The world works exactly as you'd expect it to without an eternal being. Believing in one is childish and means you are imposing your views on reality not taking it as it comes. And should there be a god or gods, it's possible, based on what happens here he or they would in no way be worth worshiping...

Anyone who cannot prove the nonexistence of GOD and would call others who clearly see God's leading "morons" is a fool. I'd rather be a moron.

Or be considered a moron... and you will from a dying world... I hope all will be saved... so many people are working hard to spread the Gospel. Not for their benefit either... people making huge sacrifices for the benefit of others...

 

[Dot Com]

They're lucky they got off w/ just a fine after terrorizing that couple. Sheesh.

 

[Bonzi]

They're lucky they got off w/ just a fine after terrorizing that couple. Sheesh.

Can you explain to me how not baking a cake for someone is considered "terrorizing"?

 

[Dot Com]

They're lucky they got off w/ just a fine after terrorizing that couple. Sheesh.

Can you explain to me how not baking a cake for someone is considered "terrorizing"?

giving out their info is terrorizing. Client info is supposed to be secured.

 

[Bonzi]

They're lucky they got off w/ just a fine after terrorizing that couple. Sheesh.

Can you explain to me how not baking a cake for someone is considered "terrorizing"?

giving out their info is terrorizing. Client info is supposed to be secured.

Oh okay well I will admit to not knowing much about the story.
I didn't realize they were giving out client information..............
I thought it was the couple that brought forth the complaint....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

They refused to make a cake for a ceremony they see as a sin unto God. That is a huge piece of context that the fascist progressives are trying hide

NO, we don't consider it RELEVANT. If they see that ceremony as a sin unto God, then they should't be in teh Wedding Cake Business.

And getting back to the OP, there are a WHOLE LOT OF THINGS the bible says are "sins unto God" that they probably had no problem making cakes for.

Let he who is without sin bake the first cake!

And if you are gay you should only support a GAY bakery and leave everyone else alone. That is exactly what a Christian should do. They should live by example and not THREATS. Only evil doers make trouble for everyone who disagrees with them. This is exactly what the militant homosexual community is doing. They are libeling everyone who has an opinion other than their own. If I don't agree with a business's practices I simply go elsewhere. I do not believe in giving others I disagree with a black eye. Those who would hand a hundred thousand dollars over to someone simply because their feelings were hurt are even worse than those who are profiting at the expense of biblical values. People need to grow up and quit acting like spoiled babies.

Damn Little Nipps...we can feel the hate

So can I. The difference is that I hate the immoral acts. I don't hate the person enslaved to committing such ungodly acts.

You're at liberty to believe whatever you like; however, if you operate a business in a jurisdiction subject to a public accommodations law with a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, regardless your religious beliefs.

 

[thanatos144]

They refused to make a cake for a ceremony they see as a sin unto God. That is a huge piece of context that the fascist progressives are trying hide

NO, we don't consider it RELEVANT. If they see that ceremony as a sin unto God, then they should't be in teh Wedding Cake Business.

And getting back to the OP, there are a WHOLE LOT OF THINGS the bible says are "sins unto God" that they probably had no problem making cakes for.

Let he who is without sin bake the first cake!

And if you are gay you should only support a GAY bakery and leave everyone else alone. That is exactly what a Christian should do. They should live by example and not THREATS. Only evil doers make trouble for everyone who disagrees with them. This is exactly what the militant homosexual community is doing. They are libeling everyone who has an opinion other than their own. If I don't agree with a business's practices I simply go elsewhere. I do not believe in giving others I disagree with a black eye. Those who would hand a hundred thousand dollars over to someone simply because their feelings were hurt are even worse than those who are profiting at the expense of biblical values. People need to grow up and quit acting like spoiled babies.

Damn Little Nipps...we can feel the hate

So can I. The difference is that I hate the immoral acts. I don't hate the person enslaved to committing such ungodly acts.

You're at liberty to believe whatever you like; however, if you operate a business in a jurisdiction subject to a public accommodations law with a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, regardless your religious beliefs.

The first amendment of the constitution says other wise

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

 

[Seawytch]

Last I heard this was a free country.

If your a bigot or a racist you shouldn't have to do something you're not comfortable doing.

If others don't like it. Tough. Fucking. Shit.

Last I heard the bigots have had to serve the n words they weren't comfortable with since 1964. Take care of Federal law protecting race and religion before attacking state and local laws.