Food for Thought

[MHunterB]

Roudy is correct in that Judaism, like other faiths, seeks to preserve itself by condemning the mixing of practices from other religions with Jewish practice.

But that's not the same thing as declaring that everyone else's faith is wrong or useless...... it's jsut wrong for us to practice.

 

[MHunterB]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5-4nWhg5kw]Moses Ri-Tooral-I-Ay - YouTube[/ame]

And of course this thread couldn't possibly be complete without the above. One of my favorite Irish songs........

 

[sealadaigh]

About religious tolerance: the home page of the ReligiousTolerance.org web site

Try reading at the above site for some actual accurate information about the whole 'chosen' concept in Jewish theology. It has never been anywhere near what certain posters keep insisting it is.

FWIW, simply being a non-Orthodox Jew doesn't make one 'self-hating'. So long as Einstein wasn't claiming to be an authority on Jewish theology, nobody's going to care. I keep trying to explain this to people: Judaism is really a noncreedal religion. It doesn't really *have* 'DOCTRINE' - about the closest one can get to that would be Maimonides' 'Thirteen Points' . And even then, other scholars argued against him for writing the stuff down as it could fossilize things.

perhaps your information would be better directed towards those who trash people of the islamic and other faiths. i see very few people engaging in trashing judaism unless jews start trashing other faiths and ethnicities.

caturday showed a letter by einstein and the message i got from it was that all religions are the same. this was on the heels of a thread where one group was trashing the koran and the islamic faith whle the other group, in opposition, was defending amreican values of the freedoms of speech and right to worship.

 

[sealadaigh]

Poor sealie - you just can't seem to focus on the topic, can you?

NOTHING in that Einstein quote is problematic.

Again, if anyone wants to discuss the ACTUAL Jewish understanding of 'being 'chosen' - please read the material from the site I've linked to and then we can attempt a discussion.

and where did either i, or caturday, say anything about the einstein letter being problematic at all. people are attacking him for his good intentions by posting a quote by einstein.

 

[sealadaigh]

Roudy is correct in that Judaism, like other faiths, seeks to preserve itself by condemning the mixing of practices from other religions with Jewish practice.

But that's not the same thing as declaring that everyone else's faith is wrong or useless...... it's jsut wrong for us to practice.

roudy regularly calls muslims "animals" and "islamo-nazis" and far worse. he trashes their holy books.

 

[Lipush]

Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups … I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.

This does not reflect my beliefs, however after the thread on Islam I thought that this would offer a different perspective on the meaning of religions in people's lives. I will be interested in hearing from both pro-Israelis and pro-Palestinians on this matter.

Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen' – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

I dont get the connection of being 'chosen' and religion. Being 'chosen' is not a real aspect of Judaism. It's not what Judaism is about

 

[MJB12741]

Hey Seal, how many young Irish girls did the Magdelane Sister Nuns kill & drive to a lifetime of insanity?

A very Irish sort of hell - theage.com.au

Jews do not go about referring to themselves as 'chosen' - the way the OP is flinging around the word is rude. It's offensive because it is FALSE.

It would be just as 'truthful' to post about Jews using Christian or Muslim blood to bake the Passover matzoh as to continually claim that Jews regard themselves as 'chosen'.

i believe it is einstein doing the flinging.

and caturday brought up the letter in light of some recent trashing of muslims and the koran.

lolol...my god. two words and a tizzy begins. meanwhile, back at the ranch, we have people trashing and misinterpreting the whole koran and most of the posts in response are pretty reasonable.

 

[patrickcaturday]

Jews do not go about referring to themselves as 'chosen' - the way the OP is flinging around the word is rude. It's offensive because it is FALSE.

It would be just as 'truthful' to post about Jews using Christian or Muslim blood to bake the Passover matzoh as to continually claim that Jews regard themselves as 'chosen'.

i believe it is einstein doing the flinging.

and caturday brought up the letter in light of some recent trashing of muslims and the koran.

lolol...my god. two words and a tizzy begins. meanwhile, back at the ranch, we have people trashing and misinterpreting the whole koran and most of the posts in response are pretty reasonable.

[/QUOTE]


Thank you Seal, Aqua Athena;



I guess there is not really a whole lot more that I wish to say on this subject that you two have not already said for me ( by the way Seal thank you for your correction regarding political groups , it has given me something more to think about due to Einstein's thoughts re: Zionism )



There are however a few things that I would like to note. First of all I did not fling anything around, In my posts the word " chosen " was used twice and in both it was referenced back to Einstein so he was the one using it not me. I would like to think that I would get an apology from MHunterB especially for her linking me to the libel that christian and muslim blood was used in matzoh, that was beyond the pale, but I do not expect that I will. MJB why don't you stay on the subject, Seems to me that you are the one who is straying with your constant referencing of Irish Nuns, Care to explain how that has anything to do with the OP.



Finally and most importantly I hope the posters on this thread recognize the innate bigotry that all of them have expressed, except for Seal and Aqua Athena, in that all of them automatically assumed that I was using the word " chosen " when I was not, and instead of asking me what my meaning was everyone automatically assumed that it was being used in a bigoted way. This is the problem that comes into being when people are so consumed with looking for anti-Semitism especially when it does not exist.

 

[Hossfly]

why would you consider the vague metaphysical musings of einstein an issue for this board? "Einstein wrote in a letter" gee-----how exciting-----he did not even know that the thing would ever be read by anyone other than the person to whom he addressed it and probably did not even bother to PROOF READ his little note and probably did not even give that which he wrote------a whole lot of thought. I am always fascinated when people quote from letters and diaries and odd little comments as if the little samples MUST REFLECT SOME CONSISTENT AND IMPORTANT INSIGHT INTO TRUTH Maybe he was tired or drunk when he wrote that letter? -------Maybe that letter truly reflects his lifetime philosophy or maybe he was just writing something he thought would please the receiver of the letter.

If a philosopher writes a book-----revises it----works on it -----then it reflects something about his thinking---- ........a letter?-------was it a post card from Miami?

My all time fave is citations of some scribblings in a personal diary-------late at nite----after a party-----alcohol haze and then a sleeping pill -----I WILL NOW WRITE DEEP AND HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT STUFF IN THIS LITTLE NOTEBOOK THAT I ASSUME NO ONE WILL EVER READ----EVEN I WILL PROBABLY NEVER READ IT AGAIN

and that would explain your feelings about the about the hoax "letter to an anti-zionist friend" by the reverend doctor martin luther king jr. too, right rosie?

at least the einstein letter is real.

But, (big but) you have to consider who did the choosing. Why don't you argue with HIM? Instead of Einstein, who doesn't have a say in the matter. Face it, the Jews are the Chosen Ones and it may twist your thong but that's a fact,Jack. Choke on it.

 

[Hossfly]

Roudy is correct in that Judaism, like other faiths, seeks to preserve itself by condemning the mixing of practices from other religions with Jewish practice.

But that's not the same thing as declaring that everyone else's faith is wrong or useless...... it's jsut wrong for us to practice.

roudy regularly calls muslims "animals" and "islamo-nazis" and far worse. he trashes their holy books.

There have been plenty of posters on different message boards who have demonized the Jews, but people like Seal had been very quiet about this. Regardless of what goes on here on different message boards is really nothing to what is actually happening in real life when there are Muslims who think nothing of murdering people of different religions and burning down or blowing up their houses of worship, whether it is churches, Hindu or Buddhist temples, and even mosques of other Muslims. Seal has a big problem if a poster trashes the Koran, but apparently he has no problem with Muslims actually destroying Bibles and of course he has no problem with anyone dragging up those fake Talmud quotes from hate sites.

 

[patrickcaturday]

and that would explain your feelings about the about the hoax "letter to an anti-zionist friend" by the reverend doctor martin luther king jr. too, right rosie?

at least the einstein letter is real.

But, (big but) you have to consider who did the choosing. Why don't you argue with HIM? Instead of Einstein, who doesn't have a say in the matter. Face it, the Jews are the Chosen Ones and it may twist your thong but that's a fact,Jack. Choke on it.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


You Hoss have to consider who it was who said they were chosen, and that too is a fact Jack !!!

 

[Hossfly]

and that would explain your feelings about the about the hoax "letter to an anti-zionist friend" by the reverend doctor martin luther king jr. too, right rosie?

at least the einstein letter is real.

But, (big but) you have to consider who did the choosing. Why don't you argue with HIM? Instead of Einstein, who doesn't have a say in the matter. Face it, the Jews are the Chosen Ones and it may twist your thong but that's a fact,Jack. Choke on it.

[/QUOTE]


You Hoss have to consider who it was who said they were chosen, and that too is a fact Jack !!! [/QUOTE]
You'll have to elaborate. I'm a bit slow today.

 

[patrickcaturday]

and that would explain your feelings about the about the hoax "letter to an anti-zionist friend" by the reverend doctor martin luther king jr. too, right rosie?

at least the einstein letter is real.

But, (big but) you have to consider who did the choosing. Why don't you argue with HIM? Instead of Einstein, who doesn't have a say in the matter. Face it, the Jews are the Chosen Ones and it may twist your thong but that's a fact,Jack. Choke on it.

You Hoss have to consider who it was who said they were chosen, and that too is a fact Jack !!!

You'll have to elaborate. I'm a bit slow today.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


All I am saying Hoss, and it goes back to the OP, is that to be intelectually and emotionally honest in discussions of this kind, especially with yourself, you need to question everything !!! Did Abraham really have a vision from God where he was told that his people/Jews would be the chosen, or was it instead his way of unifing his tribe. We can and should ask the same thing about all religions, nothing should be taken for granted. I know that I ask that question all the time about my Catholic Faith and even more basic I all the time ask myself if God even exists. I beleive that is what Einstein was getting to in the quote that started this thread.

 

[Hossfly]

You Hoss have to consider who it was who said they were chosen, and that too is a fact Jack !!!

You'll have to elaborate. I'm a bit slow today.

[/QUOTE]


All I am saying Hoss, and it goes back to the OP, is that to be intelectually and emotionally honest in discussions of this kind, especially with yourself, you need to question everything !!! Did Abraham really have a vision from God where he was told that his people/Jews would be the chosen, or was it instead his way of unifing his tribe. We can and should ask the same thing about all religions, nothing should be taken for granted. I know that I ask that question all the time about my Catholic Faith and even more basic I all the time ask myself if God even exists. I beleive that is what Einstein was getting to in the quote that started this thread.[/QUOTE]
I think Abraham got his information correct and Mr. Moses was well informed too. Never doubt your beliefs.

 

[patrickcaturday]

You Hoss have to consider who it was who said they were chosen, and that too is a fact Jack !!!

You'll have to elaborate. I'm a bit slow today.

All I am saying Hoss, and it goes back to the OP, is that to be intelectually and emotionally honest in discussions of this kind, especially with yourself, you need to question everything !!! Did Abraham really have a vision from God where he was told that his people/Jews would be the chosen, or was it instead his way of unifing his tribe. We can and should ask the same thing about all religions, nothing should be taken for granted. I know that I ask that question all the time about my Catholic Faith and even more basic I all the time ask myself if God even exists. I beleive that is what Einstein was getting to in the quote that started this thread.

I think Abraham got his information correct and Mr. Moses was well informed too. Never doubt your beliefs.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


Always doubt your beleifs otherwise learning ceases !!!

 

[Hossfly]

All I am saying Hoss, and it goes back to the OP, is that to be intelectually and emotionally honest in discussions of this kind, especially with yourself, you need to question everything !!! Did Abraham really have a vision from God where he was told that his people/Jews would be the chosen, or was it instead his way of unifing his tribe. We can and should ask the same thing about all religions, nothing should be taken for granted. I know that I ask that question all the time about my Catholic Faith and even more basic I all the time ask myself if God even exists. I beleive that is what Einstein was getting to in the quote that started this thread.

I think Abraham got his information correct and Mr. Moses was well informed too. Never doubt your beliefs.

[/QUOTE]


Always doubt your beleifs otherwise learning ceases !!![/QUOTE]
Which genius uttered that quote?

 

[Hossfly]

All I am saying Hoss, and it goes back to the OP, is that to be intelectually and emotionally honest in discussions of this kind, especially with yourself, you need to question everything !!! Did Abraham really have a vision from God where he was told that his people/Jews would be the chosen, or was it instead his way of unifing his tribe. We can and should ask the same thing about all religions, nothing should be taken for granted. I know that I ask that question all the time about my Catholic Faith and even more basic I all the time ask myself if God even exists. I beleive that is what Einstein was getting to in the quote that started this thread.

I think Abraham got his information correct and Mr. Moses was well informed too. Never doubt your beliefs.

[/QUOTE]


Always doubt your beleifs otherwise learning ceases !!![/QUOTE]
Quotes About Doubt (140 quotes)

 

[MHunterB]

My objections were not as much to the use of the word 'chosen' - as to the FACT that it is being used by too many in a way which is grossly inaccurate, and so presents a most distorted picture of Jewihs theology.

It's like 'caritas' has a pretty specific meaning in RC theology: so does the concept of 'chosen' in Judaism (ALL Judaism, yes).

And that concept ('chosen' in Judaism) has NOTHING of 'superiority' about it: it is about the J ews being chose by YHVH to live by the Sinai Covenant. As other groups were similarly chosen by YHVH for other Covenants, given other tasks, different work to do in this world. Torah doesn't talk about all of that because we Jews didn't need to know about every little thing YHVH was doing with different tribes of Man. But the overall idea is IN there, several times over: YHVH is LORD over All the Earth - He just chose the Jews to make that fact known to others. As a certain poet once noted:

How odd
of GOD
To choose
the Jews!

We don't know why He chose us to preserve and make Torah available to others: it doesn't matter, because it's about Him - and not about us! His choice doesn't make us any better than anyone else. YHVH is a loving parent Who wants to have a relationship with EACH tribe of Man, as we are EACH His beloved children.

 

[sealadaigh]

My objections were not as much to the use of the word 'chosen' - as to the FACT that it is being used by too many in a way which is grossly inaccurate, and so presents a most distorted picture of Jewihs theology.

It's like 'caritas' has a pretty specific meaning in RC theology: so does the concept of 'chosen' in Judaism (ALL Judaism, yes).

And that concept ('chosen' in Judaism) has NOTHING of 'superiority' about it: it is about the J ews being chose by YHVH to live by the Sinai Covenant. As other groups were similarly chosen by YHVH for other Covenants, given other tasks, different work to do in this world. Torah doesn't talk about all of that because we Jews didn't need to know about every little thing YHVH was doing with different tribes of Man. But the overall idea is IN there, several times over: YHVH is LORD over All the Earth - He just chose the Jews to make that fact known to others. As a certain poet once noted:

How odd
of GOD
To choose
the Jews!

We don't know why He chose us to preserve and make Torah available to others: it doesn't matter, because it's about Him - and not about us! His choice doesn't make us any better than anyone else. YHVH is a loving parent Who wants to have a relationship with EACH tribe of Man, as we are EACH His beloved children.

perhaps you would explain what you think the connection between the jewish exclusive "chosen people" and the roman catholic inclusive "caritas"?

ewer was jewish.

and i have a lot more. you really do not get it, do you?

you may actually want to look up the word "chosen".

 

[irosie91]

Deach makes a FOOL OF HIMSELF AGAIN "you might want to look-up the word 'chosen' " the idiot is "looking up" the dictionary definition of ENGLISH WORDS in order to interpret what the HEBREW word bkhr means in the manner in which it is used in ancient hebrew scriptures-------what a joke is Deach

deach dear I will help you-------the CONCEPT of CHOICE----is one of the main themes of the book of the bible you call "GENESIS" It is a very big topic In fact the concept of "CHOICE" comes up in lots of ancient writings--------including some of the greek classics like the ODYSSEY you would not understand To start you off------think "choice" vs "fate" too sublime for you?