Flight 93 families ask Bush to OK land seizure

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I agree on that. But I'd rather see it go to these families than to those corrupt unions.

I'd rather it stay with those that earned the money in the first place.

 

[DiveCon]

there are SOME things that transcend your rights
this is one of them

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

there are SOME things that transcend your rights
this is one of them

No.

 

[DiveCon]

no.

Yes

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes

There is never a time when a person loses their rights, that is nonsense.

 

[DiveCon]

There is never a time when a person loses their rights, that is nonsense.

REALLY????

what about when his rights interfere with MINE?
who's rights are absolute?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

REALLY????

what about when his rights interfere with MINE?
who's rights are absolute?

I would need an example.

That is certainly not the case in what is happening here, however. This company's ownership of the land is not infringing on the rights of these people in any way.

 

[DiveCon]

I would need an example.

That is certainly not the case in what is happening here, however. This company's ownership of the land is not infringing on the rights of these people in any way.

there is the greater good
and thats when ED should be used
this memorial is one of those greater goods

well, maybe not the last design i saw, but over all

 

[tigerbob]

Svonavec has rejected an offer of $250,000 from the federal government. It has also rejected an offer of $750,000 from the families.

Mike Svonavec has said the park service has not done enough to negotiate a deal, so for that reason it seems to me that Svonavec are willing to sell. Therefore, it's not so much about principle as it is about price.

The Svonavec property in question (273 acres of the proposed 2,200) contains most of the crash site itself. It is logical to assume that the crash site is integral to any memorial.

Svonavec is a quarry company. The area where the crash happened has been strip mined by Svonavec. However, this strip mining took place prior to the crash. At the time of the crash it had reverted to an area of meadows and trees. There appear to be no further plans for recovery of natural resources from this area - so I guess it is likely to remain fallow.

After rejection of the initial federal offer, the parks service initiated an appraisal. This appraisal, once complete, was rejected internally because it did not comply with federal standards (according to the parks service). A third appraisal was commissioned earlier this year and is due to be ready around January 5th. Svonavec appears to be saying that lack of publication of the 2nd appraisal is cause for concern.

It would be interesting to know what price was paid for the other (presumably similar) acres that have already been acquired by the parks service.

If it was significantly more pro rata that the $750,000 offered by the families, then Svonavec clearly have a legitimate grievance both about the price they have been offered and about potentially undue pressure being brought to bear.

If it was significantly less than the $750,000 (and there are no strategic plans for further strip mining or other use of what is currently dormant property), then Svonavec are clearly profiteering scumbags.

Hopefully we'll know which soon after January 5th. Whatever turns out to be the case, I hope a deal can be reached.

Either way, to mock the families of the dead with comments like...

"Please Steal That Land For Us: We're Victims."

...is quite disgusting IMO.

 

[tigerbob]

I see what you mean DiveCon but that's relative. The property is worth a great deal to the families of the victims. It became more valuable when that airplane crashed there. Maybe the gov. could help the families by paying the asking price rather than siezing.

If Svonavec are demanding more than fair market value just because the plane crashed there, that is abhorrent.

 

[Steerpike]

If Svonavec are demanding more than fair market value just because the plane crashed there, that is abhorrent.

The word 'fair market value' is, of course, the rub. As soon as someone wants the land, the 'fair market value' of it has gone up. It is now in demand.

 

[RodISHI]

Actually if the land has mining deposits the land owner may not be out of line Bob. Mines and land with mineral deposit resources are very profitable and valuable.

 

[DiveCon]

The word 'fair market value' is, of course, the rub. As soon as someone wants the land, the 'fair market value' of it has gone up. It is now in demand.

you don't have a problem with someone profiting from this?

 

[tigerbob]

The word 'fair market value' is, of course, the rub. As soon as someone wants the land, the 'fair market value' of it has gone up. It is now in demand.

Not if it is only in demand by a single potential buyer. We're not talking about a bidding war here.

 

[Modbert]

there are SOME things that transcend your rights
this is one of them

Alright DiveCon, someone gets shot on your property. I want to turn it into a memorial site for that person, we'll give you/your family a "reasonable price" for it. So with the market where it is right now, it's probably much much lower then you/you're family paid for it, they/you lose a massive amount of money, cannot afford to buy a house elsewhere but hey; I got my memorial I wanted.

 

[Steerpike]

you don't have a problem with someone profiting from this?

It's a private person's land. I don't have a problem with him refusing to sell all together, or selling it for whatever those who want the land are willing to pay for it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

there is the greater good
and thats when ED should be used
this memorial is one of those greater goods

well, maybe not the last design i saw, but over all

This memorial is not for the "greater good," it doesn't help anybody in any way. It's simply something the families of the Flight 93 victims want.

 

[DiveCon]

Svonavec has rejected an offer of $250,000 from the federal government. It has also rejected an offer of $750,000 from the families.

Mike Svonavec has said the park service has not done enough to negotiate a deal, so for that reason it seems to me that Svonavec are willing to sell. Therefore, it's not so much about principle as it is about price.

The Svonavec property in question (273 acres of the proposed 2,200) contains most of the crash site itself. It is logical to assume that the crash site is integral to any memorial.

Svonavec is a quarry company. The area where the crash happened has been strip mined by Svonavec. However, this strip mining took place prior to the crash. At the time of the crash it had reverted to an area of meadows and trees. There appear to be no further plans for recovery of natural resources from this area - so I guess it is likely to remain fallow.

After rejection of the initial federal offer, the parks service initiated an appraisal. This appraisal, once complete, was rejected internally because it did not comply with federal standards (according to the parks service). A third appraisal was commissioned earlier this year and is due to be ready around January 5th. Svonavec appears to be saying that lack of publication of the 2nd appraisal is cause for concern.

It would be interesting to know what price was paid for the other (presumably similar) acres that have already been acquired by the parks service.

If it was significantly more pro rata that the $750,000 offered by the families, then Svonavec clearly have a legitimate grievance both about the price they have been offered and about potentially undue pressure being brought to bear.

If it was significantly less than the $750,000 (and there are no strategic plans for further strip mining or other use of what is currently dormant property), then Svonavec are clearly profiteering scumbags.

Hopefully we'll know which soon after January 5th. Whatever turns out to be the case, I hope a deal can be reached.

Either way, to mock the families of the dead with comments like...



...is quite disgusting IMO.

if the feds offered $250k, thats likely close to if not well over the actual value of the land

 

[DiveCon]

Alright DiveCon, someone gets shot on your property. I want to turn it into a memorial site for that person, we'll give you/your family a "reasonable price" for it. So with the market where it is right now, it's probably much much lower then you/you're family paid for it, they/you lose a massive amount of money, cannot afford to buy a house elsewhere but hey; I got my memorial I wanted.

this is not just ONE person, moron

how the fuck can you even begin to think that is an equivalent is beyond me
thus shows what a fucking moron you've turned into

 

[DiveCon]

This memorial is not for the "greater good," it doesn't help anybody in any way. It's simply something the families of the Flight 93 victims want.

really? just the families want it?