Fellow americans its about obama in 2012, not who runs against him

[code1211]

Thats it in a nutshell

Republicans fuck things up so badly and then mock you when you can't fix them right away

I do think if you put a women high enough on a pedestal you could look up her dress
but I also think thats kind of perverted
now
I made an observation and
it was not I who stated that with 800 billion dollars in stimulus I could fix it
That was BHO

Ridiculous analogies aside..the Republicans have been resisting with great vigor every effort for President Obama to set this economy right. The stimulus was about half of what it should have been and larded with Republican tax cuts..which do very little to stimulate the economy. They even set the limit on the package. Then they didn't vote for it. They've filibustered a record number of times and called President Obama every name in the book. One even called him a "liar" in the halls of Congress during a session. Add in Republican Governors have done their darnest to make people "feel" the pain despite getting gobs and gobs of cash. I've never seen such bad behavior from either party.

So the Stimulus took..and is taking twice as long to work..because it was perhaps a quarter of what was really needed.

At the risk of waking you from your stupor, the Dems had overwhelming majorities in both houses and held the White House. They could do anything without one single Republican vote and get it passed and signed until the good citizens of Massachussetts tried to save us all.

Blaming the Republicans because the Democrats had a bad plan and passed it and implemented it is a little out of touch with reality.

The Failed Stimulus was a quarter of what was needed? To do what? It already bankrupted us and all the signs are that the dems want to continue the murder of the economy.

If the Dems are really against torturing people, they need to dissolve their party.

 

[code1211]

Thats it in a nutshell

Republicans fuck things up so badly and then mock you when you can't fix them right away

I do think if you put a women high enough on a pedestal you could look up her dress
but I also think thats kind of perverted
now
I made an observation and
it was not I who stated that with 800 billion dollars in stimulus I could fix it
That was BHO

Obviously not a Steve Martin fan....

What did the Stimulus (and TARP) accomplish?

By late 2008, the financial markets were in a panic. Banks were failing, the Auto Comapnies were failing and people were pulling their money out of circulation. The US Government was the only entity with the resources to put money into the economy. That $800 billion was enough to signal that the US was standing behingd our economy.

The result?

Within weeks the Stock Market reversed after dropping from 14000 down to 6600. It has now moved back to the 12000 range.
GDP which was down for four consecutive quarters went positive and has remained positive. This alone signaled the end of the Bush recession


Has it brought around a booming economy? No....Stimulus was watered down with GOP pleasing tax cuts and was not enough to cause a boom. ..but does anyone else want to infuse cash into this economy? We Know the Tea Party doesn't and we know that business is still sitting on $2 Trillion...so we will have to see

Why do you suppose they are not risking their capital?

 

[rightwinger]

I do think if you put a women high enough on a pedestal you could look up her dress
but I also think thats kind of perverted
now
I made an observation and
it was not I who stated that with 800 billion dollars in stimulus I could fix it
That was BHO

Obviously not a Steve Martin fan....

What did the Stimulus (and TARP) accomplish?

By late 2008, the financial markets were in a panic. Banks were failing, the Auto Comapnies were failing and people were pulling their money out of circulation. The US Government was the only entity with the resources to put money into the economy. That $800 billion was enough to signal that the US was standing behingd our economy.

The result?

Within weeks the Stock Market reversed after dropping from 14000 down to 6600. It has now moved back to the 12000 range.
GDP which was down for four consecutive quarters went positive and has remained positive. This alone signaled the end of the Bush recession


Has it brought around a booming economy? No....Stimulus was watered down with GOP pleasing tax cuts and was not enough to cause a boom. ..but does anyone else want to infuse cash into this economy? We Know the Tea Party doesn't and we know that business is still sitting on $2 Trillion...so we will have to see

Why do you suppose they are not risking their capital?

Interesting......maybe you can enlighten us?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is simple. Obama is above the mark 46% popularity mark historically required for re-election. He outpolls any of the possible GOP candidates by at least 10% points and more. We need a winnable candidate. Gingrich can't. Palin won't. Bachmann can't. Huckabee won't. Daniels and Cain are losers out of the gate. I like Ron Paul, and he has less chance the Michelle.

Guys, Romney is the candidate if we want a GOP victory. Don't matter what you libertarians want if you want most of all Obama out. That's Romney. No one else.

Yup. Romney appears to be the front-runner right now, and seems to have an appeal to moderates--they are the kingmakers. Although things can change and someone could come out of right field unknown but rocket to the top within the year and a half.

I think when you boil it all down, regardless of all the other policy issues, Obama's odds of reelection are tied to the economy--specifically the unemployment figures.

The 2012 Congress, that's pretty much up for grabs I think. I can see Obama getting re-elected but Republicans building on their current numbers.

If the jobs improve, yes, but let's get through the two quarterly ending in these next four months. If the commercial mortgage racket explodes because borrowers can't pay of those mortgages and the price of all commercial property goes way down, whoever is elected next year will be unable to do anything much to correct the mess we all will be in.

 

[Flopper]

The fact is simple. Obama is above the mark 46% popularity mark historically required for re-election. He outpolls any of the possible GOP candidates by at least 10% points and more. We need a winnable candidate. Gingrich can't. Palin won't. Bachmann can't. Huckabee won't. Daniels and Cain are losers out of the gate. I like Ron Paul, and he has less chance the Michelle.

Guys, Romney is the candidate if we want a GOP victory. Don't matter what you libertarians want if you want most of all Obama out. That's Romney. No one else.

Yup. Romney appears to be the front-runner right now, and seems to have an appeal to moderates--they are the kingmakers. Although things can change and someone could come out of right field unknown but rocket to the top within the year and a half.

I think when you boil it all down, regardless of all the other policy issues, Obama's odds of reelection are tied to the economy--specifically the unemployment figures.

The 2012 Congress, that's pretty much up for grabs I think. I can see Obama getting re-elected but Republicans building on their current numbers.

Romney is the only Republican who makes sense

Republicans will concede the presidency to Obama and concentrate on the Senate

Since incumbents win the presidency 71% of the time and Obama's popularity is higher than most president's after two years, he should win easily unless something unexpected happens.

 

[JRK]

Good Morning to all

As we journey down this path of debate i still am seeing many here on the left that feel Obama's performance will be ignored

The country had been told for 8 years what a dummy Bush was
That 5% UE was bad
That Bush lied and people died
That all was lost in Iraq

I have not even mentioned Git mo and that promise
Does this group really feel that the GOP will leave that alone?
The supporters of Obama as they are trying to do here is not making it about Obama. He is and has been failing bad
Its not personal
Just look at the facts

 

[JRK]

Obviously not a Steve Martin fan....

What did the Stimulus (and TARP) accomplish?

By late 2008, the financial markets were in a panic. Banks were failing, the Auto Comapnies were failing and people were pulling their money out of circulation. The US Government was the only entity with the resources to put money into the economy. That $800 billion was enough to signal that the US was standing behingd our economy.

The result?

Within weeks the Stock Market reversed after dropping from 14000 down to 6600. It has now moved back to the 12000 range.
GDP which was down for four consecutive quarters went positive and has remained positive. This alone signaled the end of the Bush recession


Has it brought around a booming economy? No....Stimulus was watered down with GOP pleasing tax cuts and was not enough to cause a boom. ..but does anyone else want to infuse cash into this economy? We Know the Tea Party doesn't and we know that business is still sitting on $2 Trillion...so we will have to see

We can quantify what did happen, but we can't quantify what didn't happen. Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Regan, and Obama were all criticized because their actions didn't improve the economy fast enough. But where might we be today without financial bailouts, job stimulus, monetary stimulus, and tax cuts. Unfortunately, there is no way to measure how many job weren't lost or how many businesses didn't fail. So the party out of power during a recession can always rely on the same old rhetoric. They can't be proved wrong. Nor can they be proved right.

Of course the rightwing Monday morning QBs will always claim an alternative history

What would have happened if Obama did nothing like the right wanted?

Auto companies would have failed
Financial markets would have collapsed
Unemployment would be double digits

All of that was done under W admin
Tarp

and as afar as the auto companies, what does the UAW have to do with GM surviving?
it had nothing to do with GM
They own less of GM than the UAW does now

As as you can find on the top of this page there are numerous links explaining the real reasons behind the stimulus and just how much money GMAC/GM still owe us

It amazes me that people claim that people would stop buying cars in the morning because GM went chapter 7 instead of 11
thats 100 billion dollars of tax payers wealth your talking there people

 

[Dr.Drock]

Nominating Romney would prove that nobody was really against nationalized healthcare, they were just against a Democrat doing it.

 

[JRK]

Nominating Romney would prove that nobody was really against nationalized healthcare, they were just against a Democrat doing it.

Romney did not tell the people of his state he could save 500 billion dollars on Medicare to pay for it
Romney did not tell his people to know whats in the bill you got to pass it

You know what would fix this?
put it on a ballot
Let the people decide

Put it before them
how your going to pay for it ( taxes would have to go up)
Its that simple
I am a cancer survivor and trust me when I tel you it needs attention

 

[Dr.Drock]

Nominating Romney would prove that nobody was really against nationalized healthcare, they were just against a Democrat doing it.

Romney did not tell the people of his state he could save 500 billion dollars on Medicare to pay for it
Romney did not tell his people to know whats in the bill you got to pass it

You know what would fix this?
put it on a ballot
Let the people decide

Put it before them
how your going to pay for it ( taxes would have to go up)
Its that simple
I am a cancer survivor and trust me when I tel you it needs attention

I'd love to go back to the days when charity-based hospitals were alive, well and abundant. The last 50-60 years of skyrocketing taxes, value of the dollar killed, huge increase in gov't spending and constant increase in gov't involvement in healthcare has killed off almost all of them.

I agree the system is broke and people with pre-existing conditions like yourself are pretty much left to rot and it's a very sad situation, I just have a completely different view of how to fix it.

 

[Immanuel]

Nominating Romney would prove that nobody was really against nationalized healthcare, they were just against a Democrat doing it.

Romney did not tell the people of his state he could save 500 billion dollars on Medicare to pay for it
Romney did not tell his people to know whats in the bill you got to pass it

You know what would fix this?
put it on a ballot
Let the people decide

Put it before them
how your going to pay for it ( taxes would have to go up)
Its that simple
I am a cancer survivor and trust me when I tel you it needs attention

I am not so sure putting it on the ballot is the right thing to do. Wouldn't putting it on the ballot be an "all or nothing" vote?

It is a fact that the health care industry, including both insurance and providers, needs to be addressed and cleaned up. Some of the provisions of President Obama's health care reform are needed i.e. disallowing exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If we the people voted Aye or Nay on it, and we should decide Nay, the entire thing would go away and true reform would be stuffed under a pillow somewhere never to be heard of again.

Besides, we elect our representatives and Senators to represent us. If we start "second guessing" them and jumping on "majority rule" whenever we think they screw up... well, why pay them in the first place? We may as well just become a pure Democracy and let everything be decided on a majority vote basis. Democracy is better than socialism, but a pure Democracy can be a hell of a place to live in especially if you are not part of the majority.

I think HCR needs to be redone and hopefully it will be, but something did in fact need to be done. As the saying went for Social Security Reform; mend it not end it.

Immie

PS Glad to hear you are a survivor. I lost my dad to that awful disease almost two years ago.

 

[JRK]

Nominating Romney would prove that nobody was really against nationalized healthcare, they were just against a Democrat doing it.

Romney did not tell the people of his state he could save 500 billion dollars on Medicare to pay for it
Romney did not tell his people to know whats in the bill you got to pass it

You know what would fix this?
put it on a ballot
Let the people decide

Put it before them
how your going to pay for it ( taxes would have to go up)
Its that simple
I am a cancer survivor and trust me when I tel you it needs attention

I am not so sure putting it on the ballot is the right thing to do. Wouldn't putting it on the ballot be an "all or nothing" vote?

It is a fact that the health care industry, including both insurance and providers, needs to be addressed and cleaned up. Some of the provisions of President Obama's health care reform are needed i.e. disallowing exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If we the people voted Aye or Nay on it, and we should decide Nay, the entire thing would go away and true reform would be stuffed under a pillow somewhere never to be heard of again.

Besides, we elect our representatives and Senators to represent us. If we start "second guessing" them and jumping on "majority rule" whenever we think they screw up... well, why pay them in the first place? We may as well just become a pure Democracy and let everything be decided on a majority vote basis. Democracy is better than socialism, but a pure Democracy can be a hell of a place to live in especially if you are not part of the majority.

I think HCR needs to be redone and hopefully it will be, but something did in fact need to be done. As the saying went for Social Security Reform; mend it not end it.

Immie

PS Glad to hear you are a survivor. I lost my dad to that awful disease almost two years ago.

I could not agree more
BHO went all in, on purpose
the same thing you fear from a ballot item is the very reason this is so u popular with the masses
I would not have an issue with a special tax for a privately run, heavily regulated, tax payer funded, lowest bidd, insurance provider(s)
chicken
guts and feathers

BHO and the dems that run congress said we could save 500 billion dollars in Medicare along with the collection of 10 years to pay for 7
lets face it now, not 10 years from now

 

[Immanuel]

Romney did not tell the people of his state he could save 500 billion dollars on Medicare to pay for it
Romney did not tell his people to know whats in the bill you got to pass it

You know what would fix this?
put it on a ballot
Let the people decide

Put it before them
how your going to pay for it ( taxes would have to go up)
Its that simple
I am a cancer survivor and trust me when I tel you it needs attention

I am not so sure putting it on the ballot is the right thing to do. Wouldn't putting it on the ballot be an "all or nothing" vote?

It is a fact that the health care industry, including both insurance and providers, needs to be addressed and cleaned up. Some of the provisions of President Obama's health care reform are needed i.e. disallowing exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If we the people voted Aye or Nay on it, and we should decide Nay, the entire thing would go away and true reform would be stuffed under a pillow somewhere never to be heard of again.

Besides, we elect our representatives and Senators to represent us. If we start "second guessing" them and jumping on "majority rule" whenever we think they screw up... well, why pay them in the first place? We may as well just become a pure Democracy and let everything be decided on a majority vote basis. Democracy is better than socialism, but a pure Democracy can be a hell of a place to live in especially if you are not part of the majority.

I think HCR needs to be redone and hopefully it will be, but something did in fact need to be done. As the saying went for Social Security Reform; mend it not end it.

Immie

PS Glad to hear you are a survivor. I lost my dad to that awful disease almost two years ago.

I could not agree more
BHO went all in, on purpose
the same thing you fear from a ballot item is the very reason this is so u popular with the masses
I would not have an issue with a special tax for a privately run, heavily regulated, tax payer funded, lowest bidd, insurance provider(s)
chicken
guts and feathers

BHO and the dems that run congress said we could save 500 billion dollars in Medicare along with the collection of 10 years to pay for 7
lets face it now, not 10 years from now

My problem with "a special tax for a privately run, heavily regulated, tax payer funded, lowest bidd, insurance provider(s)" is that the privately run part will not happen. This is the "public option" which sounds like a great idea until you think of what it means to the industry as a whole. In the long run a public option run by the government and backed by our tax dollars will kill the health insurance industry deader than a doorknob. Face it, the public option means single payer health care in the end.

While I can see some advantages to a single payer system (I grew up with Kaiser Permenente Hospitals, they were great), I see lots of disadvantages as well, one of which is that I do not trust bureaucrats to do the right thing for me or my family.

Immie

 

[JakeStarkey]

Privatization of those issues dealing with prisons, orphanages, elder care, and mental health ended up in private industry taking as much or more money from the taxpayer than the government did in providing thoses services and doing a much worse job. The most vulnerable Americans are at the mercy of those "in charge" of them industry. That is immorally obscene.

 

[JRK]

Privatization of those issues dealing with prisons, orphanages, elder care, and mental health ended up in private industry taking as much or more money from the taxpayer than the government did in providing thoses services and doing a much worse job. The most vulnerable Americans are at the mercy of those "in charge" of them industry. That is immorally obscene.

My 401k is in allot better shape than my Social Security is
I do not know of another item I can use as reference

 

[JakeStarkey]

My private investments are fine, and that is because I can control them independently of any outside control. If I were in prison, or in foster care, or mentally unstable, or in elder care, I would be depending on private industry for taking care of my needs, and I suspect the profit line comes before the client's best welfare.

 

[Immanuel]

My private investments are fine, and that is because I can control them independently of any outside control. If I were in prison, or in foster care, or mentally unstable, or in elder care, I would be depending on private industry for taking care of my needs, and I suspect the profit line comes before the client's best welfare.

Since when have prisons been privately run?

Immie

 

[rightwinger]

Unemployment dropped to 8.9% today

GOP better find SOMEBODY to run

 

[JRK]

My private investments are fine, and that is because I can control them independently of any outside control. If I were in prison, or in foster care, or mentally unstable, or in elder care, I would be depending on private industry for taking care of my needs, and I suspect the profit line comes before the client's best welfare.

My concern with the govt is the same I have had with lets say the NEA
We do not need any more union driven entitlement careers in the federal govt.

I am a big supporter of the trade unions, there is a huge difference in the two

 

[JRK]

Unemployment dropped to 8.9% today

GOP better find SOMEBODY to run

That is govt spam
Gallup Finds U.S. Unemployment Hitting 10.3% in February
Gallup has it @ 10.3 and the DJIA knows its a lie also
besides the right is going to simply point out that there is 2 million more people out of work today than there was in Jan 2009 and we spent 1.3 trillion dollars more than we had to get there
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
But now you agree as i have stated
its about Obama
and now we have the GWB tax rate extension also that cannot be ignored