FDR's Progressive Doctrine vs The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

@ BFGRN.

You do realize I already loathe the republican party, correct?

Your Wall Of Text did not impress especially considering my opinion on the republicans as evidenced by my avatar.

Sure it was a nice distraction to read but still the fact remains that FDR's 2nd bill of rights, both the black panther and new black panther party platforms, and the constitution of the USSR are all more similar than dissimilar.

Would you like to prove how those 4 are not the same? Or do you want to distract and deflect by posting walls of text about Eisenhower, a man whos presidency I dont care for.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states


..

I think you need to go back to high school civics class.

You do know the USSR and many other nations have copied the Bill of Rights and other sections of the US Constitution.

Does that make Washington, Adams, Jefferson and others commies and fascists?

you're a dope. drawing correlations and screwing up where the cart and the horse go.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are going to pillory the trail blazers, those wrote the Declaration and the Constitution, and then blame them for others following imperfectly in their tracks?

I will give you something to compare: the 1952 GOP Platform with portions of the constitution of the U.S.S.R.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You are going to pillory the trail blazers, those wrote the Declaration and the Constitution, and then blame them for others following imperfectly in their tracks?

I will give you something to compare: the 1952 GOP Platform with portions of the constitution of the U.S.S.R.

pimple-puke-pill-gram is too fruity to grasp the obvious

 

[JakeStarkey]

I like plymco, but he lets his partisan bias blind his objectivity.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states


..

I think you need to go back to high school civics class.

You do know the USSR and many other nations have copied the Bill of Rights and other sections of the US Constitution.

Does that make Washington, Adams, Jefferson and others commies and fascists?

you're a dope. drawing correlations and screwing up where the cart and the horse go.

Wow dante I know you like be discommodious but you just made yourself look louche.

If you read the FDR's 2nd bill of rights and the USSR constitution you will see identical parrellels in the MAJORITY of both documents. Not this little thing here or there.

Come back when you do your diligence on the documents.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I like plymco, but he let's his partisan bias blind his objectivity.

Jake its not partisan its just an observation.

Keep attacking me instead of the message and observations I made guys...it really shows you have nothing to offer.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I like plymco, but he let's his partisan bias blind his objectivity.

Jake its not partisan its just an observation.

Keep attacking me instead of the message and observations I made guys...it really shows you have nothing to offer.

I took care of the message befoe I responded to you. You need to be straight here about what is going on and stop playing the martyr.

You made a comment. Now live by it and that it was far more than mere observation. Foxfyre pulls that crap all the time and then gets smacked with it and then cries.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I like plymco, but he let's his partisan bias blind his objectivity.

Jake its not partisan its just an observation.

Keep attacking me instead of the message and observations I made guys...it really shows you have nothing to offer.

I took care of the message befoe I responded to you. You need to be straight here about what is going on and stop playing the martyr.

You made a comment. Now live by it and that it was far more than mere observation. Foxfyre pulls that crap all the time and then gets smacked with it and then cries.

Going back to look for that response now.

Your comment still seems baseless and my response to it still seems appropriate, but maybe after i read i can re-quote this post and change my opinion.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You are going to pillory the trail blazers, those wrote the Declaration and the Constitution, and then blame them for others following imperfectly in their tracks?

I will give you something to compare: the 1952 GOP Platform with portions of the constitution of the U.S.S.R.

No im not going to do that. All I am doing is pointing out the myriad of similarities between FDR's 2nd bill of rights and the constitution of the former USSR.

Is this the post where you "took care of the message"? If not hit me with the permalink.

 

[johnrocks]

There are four eras that have screwed the pooch as for as this Republic goes;imho.

Lincoln...Not that ending slavery was a bad thing because it wasn't but because the entire mindset of this country went from more of a Union of States that are sovereign in and by themselves to more of a nationalistic mindset.

Woodrow Wilson...Liberal interventionism,Federal Reserve,income tax,US Senators elected; not all his to own; just the birthplace of the welfare/warfare state as we know it.

FDR.... A huge increase in the mindset that the Federal government should solve our problems, prior to him, most called this a Republic, this is when most started calling this nation a Democracy.

Bush Jr.....Totally redefined what a conservative was, he redefined it as some sort of Wilson/FDR/Lincoln/LBJ mindset as opposed to the Taft/Goldwater small government MYOB mindset.


Screw all four of em!

 

[JakeStarkey]

In other words, ihef, you are afraid to compare the two systems fairly and objectively.

Let's continue your system of comparison. For instance, Bush put people in concentration camps (prisons) and some disappeared. FDR put people in concentration camps (internment camps ) and some under house arrest. Obama has placed no in concentration camps .

BHO is the better president by your comparison. Sheesh, what is wrong with you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Plymco is trying to revise history. He does by 'simple observation' with obvious intent. He is not brave enough to do an outright comparison. Why? He will clearly lose on the merits.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Plymco is trying to revise history. He does by 'simple observation' with obvious intent. He is not brave enough to do an outright comparison. Why? He will clearly lose on the merits.

You are projecting your opinion of something onto me here Jake.

I clearly stated what my observation was, you ascribed a "revisionist" intent to the situation.

I did an outright comparison in the very first post. Please feel free to point out the sections I compared incorrectly. Look to the first post. I pulled out the sections from the USSR constitution that FDR's 2nd bill of rights appears to mimic.

I know from this post of yours I just quoted that you are brave enough to do this.

FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states

• the right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
• The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
• The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
• The right of every family to a decent home;
• The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
• The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
• The right to a good education.
• All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
• America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

There are four eras that have screwed the pooch as for as this Republic goes;imho.

Lincoln...Not that ending slavery was a bad thing because it wasn't but because the entire mindset of this country went from more of a Union of States that are sovereign in and by themselves to more of a nationalistic mindset.

Woodrow Wilson...Liberal interventionism,Federal Reserve,income tax,US Senators elected; not all his to own; just the birthplace of the welfare/warfare state as we know it.

FDR.... A huge increase in the mindset that the Federal government should solve our problems, prior to him, most called this a Republic, this is when most started calling this nation a Democracy.

Bush Jr.....Totally redefined what a conservative was, he redefined it as some sort of Wilson/FDR/Lincoln/LBJ mindset as opposed to the Taft/Goldwater small government MYOB mindset.


Screw all four of em!

In the context with which you put it I can agree with your statement.

The lincoln bit throws me because after the civil war he actually tried to put the states back to the proper positioning but the precedence he set clearly left poison in the water.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Plymco is trying to revise history. He does by 'simple observation' with obvious intent. He is not brave enough to do an outright comparison. Why? He will clearly lose on the merits.

You are projecting your opinion of something onto me here Jake.

I clearly stated what my observation was, you ascribed a "revisionist" intent to the situation.

I did an outright comparison in the very first post. Please feel free to point out the sections I compared incorrectly. Look to the first post. I pulled out the sections from the USSR constitution that FDR's 2nd bill of rights appears to mimic.

I know from this post of yours I just quoted that you are brave enough to do this.

FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states

• the right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
• The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
• The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
• The right of every family to a decent home;
• The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
• The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
• The right to a good education.
• All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
• America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.

Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.

They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.

There you go, and you are projecting (I think) your projection onto me.

Now are these the only comparisons in the modern world. Do other democratic countries of the era, Great Britain or France or Norway or Holland, have similarities to the above? Your comparison is only revisionist if your implication is that something sinister is happening in the U.S. and elsewhere in the world.

And I will point out that communism in the USSR and itself went extinct by 1992, while we have a nations still founded and grounded on democracy and capitalism.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

No you can find many other governments and governmental structure proposals that are similar to the old USSR's constitution.

The difference is FDR's 2nd bill of rights is overwhelmingly similar to the constitution of the USSR. As you stated they (ussr) had failed by 1992. I contend this is for the obvious reason that governments set up like this do not work. the relevance of this comes with many statements by our current president in his own writings and publicly.

When we have a president who appears to want to go down this path it behooths us to remember this history.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nah, nothing at all indicates BHO wants to be like Uncle Joe. Now, oddball might want to, but no evidence for BHO there.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Nah, nothing at all indicates BHO wants to be like Uncle Joe. Now, oddball might want to, but no evidence for BHO there.

You gotta read this then man [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Audacity-Hope-Thoughts-Reclaiming-American/dp/0307455874/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_2[/ame]
Trust me its worth the time to read considering he is our president.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nah, nothing at all indicates BHO wants to be like Uncle Joe. Now, oddball might want to, but no evidence for BHO there.

You gotta read this then man [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father-Story-Inheritance/dp/1400082773]Amazon.com: Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance (9781400082773): Barack Obama: Books[/ame]

Trust me its worth the time to read considering he is our president.

I have read parts of it. What about it scares you?