FDR's Progressive Doctrine vs The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PLYMCO_PILGRIM, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Senior Member

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    FDR's Second bill of rights is one of the first examples of the progressive agenda in the united states

    Compare that to the Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

    Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

    Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

    Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.

    This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement.

    Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.

    This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time.

    The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms.

    Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.

    This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising
    generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life.

    Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.

    The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security.

    Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.

    This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them.

    Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.

    This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the
    provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education.


    They are not exactly the same but some of the similarties shocked me when I reasearched the comparison I heard.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  2. theDoctorisIn
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    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

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    Rather than looking at the two back to back, and letting the abject fear of the word "USSR" and "Communism" make your argument, Why don't you tell me what you disagree with in FDR's Progressive Doctrine, and why?
     
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  3. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    You stealin' my thoughts, you gimme back my thoughts or I call the Thoughts Police! :lol:
     
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  4. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Senior Member

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    Its veers from the constitution in such a way that puts decision making power into the hands of government that We The People are guaranteed to have for ourselves.

    Who gets to decide what is adequate food?
    Who decides what is adequate cloathing?
    Who decides what is adequate housing?

    Does the farmers right to sell his food at a rate that earns him "a decent living" conflict with my right for adequate food? who decides this?

    Who decides what is a decent home, does everyone get the same exact home as me? If not why do they get better/worse homes with the same size family?

    Who decides what level of health care is adequate for me?

    I tell you I'd like to make those decisions for myself. The government has no constiutional authority to make these decisions for individuals, if it did FDR would not have needed to write a second bill of rights. There was a reason the founders didn't include these powers within our government, because they belong in the hands of the people not some washington fat cat beurocrats.
     
  5. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Senior Member

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    What is that groupthink or something? Lemmings



    BTW you are the one who brought up communism doctor, not me. Socialist republic (such as the USSR was or what FDR wanted EDIT: with his progressive 2nd bill of rights) VS Constitutional Republic (the government that has made our country great)
     
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  6. theDoctorisIn
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    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

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    FDR didn't write a "second bill of rights" any more than Newt Gingrich actually formed a legal "Contract with America". It's just rhetoric. And to call it socialist just puts you on the very long list of people who don't know what that word means.
     
  7. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Senior Member

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    I hope you aren't a real doctor.

    I called FDR's PROGRESSIVE!!!! Geeze

    First you say I said communism when i never printed that word in the OP then you say I called FDR a socialist when in the OP i called him progressive.

    Why dont you explain how its constitional instead of putting words in my mouth.
     
  8. theDoctorisIn
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    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

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    Now that's hilarious, seeing as this whole idea came straight from Glenn Beck's show last night...

    Hate to break it to you, but the USSR was a constitutional republic as well. As in, they had a constitution (hell, you even quoted it in your OP).
     
  9. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    :lol:

    Come on PP - you're blathering. The US took from 1781 to 1961 to send a human into space. The Soviet Union took from 1922 to 1961 to do it.

    Standing by for sputtering outrage from the usuals :eek::lol:
     
  10. theDoctorisIn
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    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

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    The comment on "socialism" was from the other reply (you know, the one where you claimed that FDR wanted a "Socialist Republic"). My use of the term "Communism" was hyperbole, which I guess might be too big a word for you, so I'll explain. I used the term communism as an example of the same sort of Fear tactics that you're using by comparing it to the constitution of the USSR.

    The rest of your statements here are strawmen.
     
  11. theDoctorisIn
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    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

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    ...And its hilarious that you called Diuretic a lemming for agreeing with me, while you stole your whole OP from Glenn Beck's show.
     
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  12. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Gold Member Supporting Member

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    The point is this, plymco: We the People elect the government to do what We the People want.

    And We the People have made it very clear that We do not want the wingnut right of the GOP reactionary right telling us We the People what to do.

    Go define "socialism" and "marxism" and "progressivism" objectively so that this discussion can continue on a logical basis, please.
     
  13. Dante
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    Dante cereal offender Supporting Member

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    People have already mentioned that FDR used a belief system that was not in conflict with the Constitution. So I will not add on here. I would like to remind you that the USSR had a constitution of sorts that guaranteed many things they never delivered on.
    Comparing the USSR and American leaders is comparing Apples + Oranges...both fruit, yet different in ways you fail to grasp or choose to ignore. Either way you end up looking like a fool.
     
  14. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    I guess if you do not disagree with communism then you would not be concerned with the words USSR and communism but what if FDR decided to put people in concentration camps (which he did) and we compared it to Hitler's program. Would you ask for an explanation why it is wrong?

    Perhaps that does not scare you so try this:

    "National Socialism us what Marxism could have been if it had freed itself from its absurd, artificial connection with the democratic system"

    Adolf Hitler

    He was saying that National Socialism was the fullfillment of marxism and that the social democrats belief in democratic means to achieve the socialist utopia was artificial which suggest the reality of socialism itself. The fact that the soviet union achieved a society of compete control just like in fascist countries suggest that the ends of all socialist thinking is the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2009
  15. Ravi
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    Ravi Gold Member

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    Sad to find out that PP is a Glenn Beck droid.
     
  16. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    I would like an explanation of how a philosophy of negative liberty where government essentially does nothing and is incapable of making people do things is capapable of telling 'Us We the People what to do'?
     
  17. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    It sad to realize that we have to take someone who has a half naked midget dancing seriously.:(
     
  18. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Somehow the relocation camps, ihef, for the Japanese internees were not at all similar to those of the camps for Germany's dispossessed minorities destined for extermination.

    ihopehefails would function very well in Nazi Germany. That is why he flounders so poorly in democratic America. Typical marginalized white male ranting against the waxing and waning of the moon: in other words, the world changes, but ihopehefails cannot. Sad.
     
  19. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Like all you want, ihef, but until you figure out the contradiction in what you wrote above, you will want without fulfillment forever. (Notice the very clever double alliteration in the last sentence.)
     
  20. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    You can not name an example of a time when government inaction was telling you what do to or controlling you or anyone because it doesn't exist.
     

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