Father with his daughter uses his legal gun to fight off 4 robbers. 4 to 1 and the good guy won...

[flacaltenn]

Awesome. That is one of SIX THOUSAND defensive gun uses yesterday. Only 5,999 more news reports to go through.

I’m ready. Post away moron.

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

 

[Aba Incieni]

Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

MS13 gang members. That's why the POTUS wants to get rid of those animals.

 

[MikeK]

One of the experts on tv today was talking about who you need to worry about committing these mass shootings, are those that talk about guns ALL the time.

I think this observation makes sense. Someone who talks about sex all the time is worth keeping an eye on when sex crimes are on the rise. Someone who talks about fire a lot is likely to be a pyromaniac.

I was a gun enthusiast for a long time -- until I discovered archery. But I didn't talk about guns excessively, nor did I ever talk inordinately about archery.

I've known lots of gun enthusiasts, none of whom talk about guns excessively. In fact the only time enthusiasts in any field talk about their primary interest is in the company of others who share that interest.

 

[sealybobo]

Corporate America is conservative just not when it comes to guns

No, corporate America is not conservative, some are, most are neutral, the majority will run left because they are cowards.

Do you know any liberal board members? Name the companies that are run by liberals. Fortune 500s.

I can tell you the ceos and vps are republicans. You must not know any.

Amazing the shit poor republicans either don’t know or won’t admit

Here you go...

See Where Major Companies Lean Politically

First one I looked up was Cisco. Ceo doesn’t even make $2 million. Yes I’d call that liberal and democratic.

You guys don’t understand that overwhelmingly the rich vote republican?

And more....

Here’s A List of Major Corporations Donating To Support Their Political Party

Well Wallmart, America's largest employer, is clearly Republican.

And isn't it funny how fast you conservatives come running to the defense of these liberal companies?

Sorry guys, I'm not buying it and neither should you. Just look at how Walmart went on and on about Trump's tax break and how great it was.

And when we argue to make Walmart give raises because they are extremely profitable and their workers are on government assistance, you defend the CEO and all the billions he makes. Why do you defend liberal corporations so much?

Want more proof Walmart is a conservative company? They sexually harass the women who work there

Time's Up Takes Aim At McDonald's, Walmart Over Sexual Harassment Complaints | HuffPost

Not very liberal.

 

[2aguy]

Awesome. That is one of SIX THOUSAND defensive gun uses yesterday. Only 5,999 more news reports to go through.

I’m ready. Post away moron.

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

 

[flacaltenn]

Awesome. That is one of SIX THOUSAND defensive gun uses yesterday. Only 5,999 more news reports to go through.

I’m ready. Post away moron.

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

 

[flacaltenn]

Many career cops go 15 or 20 years without drawing a gun. And these people are exposed to 100 times more crime and threat than the average gun owner.

 

[2aguy]

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

I list the actual studies done by experts in research...those are both private and government researchers and those are the numbers they came up with......Kleck, in particular, breaks down his study in great detail because of the attacks on it.....and you can read the clinton Department of Justice study that found 1.5 million defensive gun uses.....the one that was created to attack Kleck's number.....what all of that research shows? Defensive gun use is huge in this country.....

 

[2aguy]

Many career cops go 15 or 20 years without drawing a gun. And these people are exposed to 100 times more crime and threat than the average gun owner.

People aren't trying to rob cops....did you read Kleck's actual study? Some of the other ones are behind paywalls, or can't be found on the internet.....but the clinton one, and the CDC one can be found...

 

[LoneLaugher]

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

It's not his work. And you should diss it. He insists that thugs are turned away by DGU about 6000 times per day in this nation.

Diss away. It won't hurt.

 

[2aguy]

Since most defensive gun uses don't make it into the press...since most defensive gun uses do not involve having to shoot the moron trying to rape, rob or murder the victim/victims since the criminals run away, surrender or are simply wounded....we have to go by the extensive amount of research into defensive gun use to get an idea at how often it happens...

so here.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

Here you go...

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91da/afbf92d021f06426764e800a4e639a1c1116.pdf

Animal use.....

Nevertheless, among these imperfect surveys, two were relatively good for present purposes. Both the Hart survey in 1981 and the Mauser survey in 1990 were national surveys which asked carefully worded questions directed at all Rs in their samples. Both surveys excluded uses against animals and occupational uses. The two also nicely complemented each other in that the Hart survey asked only about uses of handguns, while the Mauser survey asked about uses of all gun types. The Hart survey results implied a minimum of about 640,000 annual DGUs involving handguns, while the Mauser results implied about 700,000 involving any type of gun.3 7 It should be stressed, contrary to the claims of Reiss and Roth,38 that neither of these estimates entailed the use of "dubious adjustment procedures." The percent of sample households reporting a DGU was simply multiplied by the total number of U.S. households, resulting in an estimate of DGU-involved households. This figure, compiled for a five year period, was then divided by five to yield a per-year figure.

How Kleck did his survey...

C. THE NATIONAL SELF-DEFENSE SURVEY

1. Methods The present survey is the first survey ever devoted to the subject of armed self-defense. It was carefully designed to correct all -of the known correctable or avoidable flaws of previous surveys which critics have identified. We use the most anonymous possible national survey format, the anonymous random digit dialed telephone survey. We did not know the identities of those who were interviewed, and made this fact clear to the Rs.

We interviewed a large nationally representative sample covering all adults, age eighteen and over, in the lower fortyeight states and living in households with telephones. 42 We asked DGU questions of all Rs in our sample, asking them separately about both their own DGU experiences and those of other members of their households. We used both a five year recall period and a one year recall period. We inquired about uses of both handguns and other types of guns, and excluded occupational uses of guns and uses against animals.

Finally, we asked a long series of detailed questions designed to establish exactly what Rs did with their guns; for example, if they had confronted other humans, and how had each DGU connected to a specific crime or crimes. We consulted with North America's most experienced experts on gun-related surveys, David Bordua, James Wright, and Gary Mauser, along with survey expert Seymour Sudman, in order to craft a state-ofthe-art survey instrument designed specifically to establish the frequency and nature of DGUs. 43 A professional telephone polling firm, Research Network of Tallahassee, Florida, carried out the sampling and interviewing. Only the firm's most experienced interviewers, who are listed in the acknowledgements, were used on the project. Interviews were monitored at random by survey supervisors. All interviews in which an alleged DGU was reported by the R were validated by supervisors with call-backs, along with a 20% random sample of all other interviews.

Of all eligible residential telephone numbers called where a person rather than an answering machine answered, 61% resulted in a completed interview. Interviewing was carried out from February through April of 1993. The quality of sampling procedures was well above the level common in national surveys. Our sample was not only large and nationally representative, but it was also stratified by state. That is, fortyeight independent samples of residential telephone numbers were drawn, one from each of the lower forty-eight states, providing fortyeight independent, albeit often small, state samples. Given the nature of randomly generated samples of telephone numbers, there was no clustering of cases or multistage sampling as there is in the NCVS;44 consequently, there was no inflation of sampling error due to such procedures. To gain a larger raw number of sample DGU cases, we oversampled in the south and west regions, where previous surveys have indicated gun ownership is higher.45 We also oversampled within contacted households for males, who are more likely to own guns and to be victims of crimes in which victims might use guns defensively.46 Data were later weighted to adjust for oversampling. Each interview began with a few general "throat-clearing" questions about problems facing the R's community and crime. The interviewers then asked the following question: "Within the past five years, have you yourself or another member of your household used a gun, even if it was not fired, for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere? Please do not include military service, police work, or work as a security guard."

Rs who answered "yes" were then asked: "Was this to protect against an animal or a person?"

Rs who reported a DGU against a person were asked: "How many incidents involving defensive uses of guns against persons happened to members of your household in the past five years?" and "Di

--------------

Questions about the details of DGU incidents permitted us to establish whether a given DGU met all of the following qualifications for an incident to be treated as a genuine DGU:

(1) the incident involved defensive action against a human rather than an animal, but not in connection with police, military, or security guard duties;

(2) the incident involved actual contact with a person, rather than merely investigating suspicious circumstances, etc.; (3) the defender could state a specific crime which he thought was being committed at the time of the incident; (4) the gun was actually used in some way-at a minimum it had to be used as part of a threat against a person, either by

 

[LoneLaugher]

Many career cops go 15 or 20 years without drawing a gun. And these people are exposed to 100 times more crime and threat than the average gun owner.

Nah. The average gun owner stops 8 rapes over a good holiday weekend. Everyone knows that.

 

[flacaltenn]

Many career cops go 15 or 20 years without drawing a gun. And these people are exposed to 100 times more crime and threat than the average gun owner.

People aren't trying to rob cops....did you read Kleck's actual study? Some of the other ones are behind paywalls, or can't be found on the internet.....but the clinton one, and the CDC one can be found...

I did. A long time ago actually. And like you I was trying to get a good number. But I remember having serious questions and problems that were unique to each study.

I have no doubt the numbers are VERY high. I have doubts about definitions and methods. There were DOJ numbers at one point that were extrapolated from crime reports. THESE have a paper trail. I seem to remember the number there being closer to 400,000 or 500,000 which is HIGH ENOUGH to make the argument.

There's about 1.5Mill burglaries per year in US. There are about 6000 injury vehicle crashes a day. The DGU just HAS to make sense in terms of the likelihood of the other statistics. For there to be almost as many DGUs /per day as injury car crashes is highly speculative.

But it's credible at numbers below 1,000,000 per year.

 

[flacaltenn]

As one poster pointed out -- The 2Mill numbers defy reason, because that's nearly 5500 per day. It's best to give the COMPLETE range because of the uncertainties. I have no doubt the number is above 100,000, but not by much.. You CANNOT ever show 5500 defensive gun uses per day unless they're counting proprietors openly carrying or displaying "armed response" signs.

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

It's not his work. And you should diss it. He insists that thugs are turned away by DGU about 6000 times per day in this nation.

Diss away. It won't hurt.

I've read a lot of them -- they are not FAR wrong. There''s just questions about the higher numbers. We're talking about a range of estimates that's about 4 to 1. Even at the smallest estimates -- it's awesomely impressive..

 

[2aguy]

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

It's not his work. And you should diss it. He insists that thugs are turned away by DGU about 6000 times per day in this nation.

Diss away. It won't hurt.

I've read a lot of them -- they are not FAR wrong. There''s just questions about the higher numbers. We're talking about a range of estimates that's about 4 to 1. Even at the smallest estimates -- it's awesomely impressive..

Exactly.........

 

[OnePercenter]

It's hopelessness. Entry level job, America's first job, and market price pay etc., are Corporate America's and their supporters, the Republican Parties way of keeping workers poor,

Fact: If your wages aren't $2200.00/yr more than in 2006, your pay hasn't kept up with inflation.

Fact: Seven million American workers have to work a second or third job to make ends meet.

Fact: Twenty percent of American workers make $20k or less.

Those facts are appalling in the richest country in the world.

entry level jobs have always been that way. What’s the difference between now, 1998, 1988, 1978, 1968, or 1958?

In 1958 and 1968 an "Entry Level Job" paid a living wage. Today it's an excuse to pay you crap.

Stats please. Link please.

Already presented them to you and yours many times.

Then it shouldn’t be hard to do again.

Knock yourself out!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Those 16 studies say you are wrong......

Can't be wrong. No scientific survey question like this DOES NOT have bounds to the confidence.. I'm sure they are there if it's academically prepared. The 5500 per day number has to be high. That's an AVERAGE of 120 per state per day. I'm not sure there's enough crime in Wyoming, or UTah or even Nebraska to support an average like.

And the definition of DGU depends on what specific the QUESTION WAS.. Does this include DGU against range varmints? Rattlesnakes included? It's too high to pass the sniff test. Probably IS more like 500,000 -- WITHOUT the coyotes and poisonous reptiles.

For Kleck, animals weren't included...

Did the questions ABSOLUTELY rule that out? Because to many gun owners, personal defense INCLUDES those uses on daily basis. Even running off foxes or other critters. The 2Mill defies reason when you apply that to the 50 states on a daily basis.

I'm not dissing your work. Just cautioning that we DONT KNOW any exact numbers. Just that it IS good argument if you don't try to inflate the available knowledge.

It's not his work. And you should diss it. He insists that thugs are turned away by DGU about 6000 times per day in this nation.

Diss away. It won't hurt.

I've read a lot of them -- they are not FAR wrong. There''s just questions about the higher numbers. We're talking about a range of estimates that's about 4 to 1. Even at the smallest estimates -- it's awesomely impressive..

Yeah. Impressive. Incredible. Really.

If there were 100 defensive gun uses yesterday and 100 today, I'd be fucking shocked. We'd read about them. There would be heroes getting keys to cities.

That would average out to 36,500 per year.

This jamoke says there are 6000 every day. With a straight face.

Come on man. Tell him how stupid he is. You know how to do that. You've said it to me a few times.

 

[OnePercenter]

The Trumps had better get used to shopping at Goodwill and visiting food banks then, huh?

Idiot.

You people are seriously obsessed with Trump. Maybe today is the day, right?

The real driver of crimes is poverty which is an objective of the Republican Party.

Liar. Criminals drive crime.

Corporate America is far worse than the Mob and Republicans promote Corporate America.

Well...at least you are half right with this post. So, that is an improvement.

Ds promote Corporate America at least as much as the Rs. Failing to see this, merely makes you just another duped partisan.

Hell...Big Ears was nothing if not a corporatist, but partisans can't see the truth.

Except EVERY tax loophole which promotes Corporate America and the wealthy was penned by Republicans.

Except Democrats are pro-raising the minimum wage which is the base for all salaries. Republicans are against raising the minimum wage.

 

[Bush92]

I am a professional and sign a contract. Guess that puts your theory out. They also know my conservative beliefs and my steadfast support for the Constitution against the PC police.

I'm sure that contract has a clause where if you are caught saying the shit in public you say here, you'd be fired.

What have I said that is either not true, or my opinion? I don’t give a fuck about PC bullshit. My value to my employer is enough that they allow my political beliefs to be in public. I speak about them at work and I am a guest editorial commentator for my local newspaper. I have said nothing illegal. Democratic Party has made race a political issue. Charges of racism are no longer valid in the public realm.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One of the experts on tv today was talking about who you need to worry about committing these mass shootings, are those that talk about guns ALL the time.

Only morons spend their days worrying about mass shootings while ignoring the real driver of violent crime: blacks and latinos.

The real driver of crimes is poverty which is an objective of the Republican Party.

Poverty does not create crime.....crime creates poverty.

Are you promoting open hunting of Republicans?

Are you on LSD?