Faith Versus The Consitution: A false conflict

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Bonnie, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    David Limbaugh
    August 9, 2005



    link
    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/printdl20050809.shtml
     
  2. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    This speaks volumes about how much we've forgotten about why /how our
    country was formed. Anyone know where a country like this can be found
    nowadays? If so, I'd like to move there...

    This is worth remembering, because it is true. It's familiar territory,
    but..... Those of you that graduated from school after the early 60's
    were
    probably never taught this. Our courts have seen to that !

    Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of "The Declaration of
    Independence"
    were orthodox, deeply committed, Christians? The other three all
    believed in
    the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal
    intervention. It is the same Congress that formed the American Bible
    Society, immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence,
    the
    Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of
    Scripture
    for the people of this nation.

    Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution,
    is
    still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but
    in
    current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted. Here is what
    he
    actually said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is
    >left
    us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that
    presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the
    strong alone.

    Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of
    chains
    and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what course others may
    take,
    but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

    These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry
    a
    Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this: "It cannot be
    emphasized
    too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by
    religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of
    Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been
    afforded freedom of worship here."

    Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his
    well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of
    the
    doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will
    soon be
    rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of the
    American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most
    important
    role.

    On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the
    American
    Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the
    principles
    of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

    Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed
    this
    truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government
    rest
    so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to
    support
    them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically
    universal in
    our country."

    In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The
    Congress of
    the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all
    schools."

    William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was
    used
    for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies
    sold
    until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the
    "Schoolmaster
    of the Nation." Listen to these word of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian
    religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our
    nation, on
    the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On
    its
    doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free Institutions. From
    no
    source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred
    Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible, I make no apology."

    Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly
    Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636.

    In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that
    students
    seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the

    Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly
    pressed
    to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God
    and
    Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay
    Jesus
    Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral
    principles of the Ten Commandments."

    James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
    States,
    said this: "We have staked the whole future of all our political
    constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern
    ourselves
    according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

    Today, we are asking God to bless America. But, how can He bless a
    Nation
    that has departed so far from Him? Prior to September 11, He was not
    welcome
    in America. Most of what you read in this article has been erased from
    our
    textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth
    about our
    country's Christian roots.

    You are encouraged to share with others, so that the truth of our
    nation's
    history will be told.
    John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
    Son,
    that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life!

    This information shared is only a drop of cement to help secure a
    foundation
    that is crumbling daily in a losing war that most of the >country
    doesn't
    even know is raging on, in, and around them...
     
  3. Nuc
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    Nuc Senior Member

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    OK, so the rest of us, who benefit from centuries of intellectual progress, what should we do?
     
  4. SpecialEd
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    SpecialEd Guest

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  5. Said1
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    Said1 VIP Member

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    Awww, no poetry this time. Drat, and you were so learnededed.
     
  6. acludem
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    acludem VIP Member

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    "The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416

    Barry Goldwater:
    Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives

    James Madison:
    Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?

    Margaret Mead:
    We will be a better country when each religious group can trust its members to obey the dictates of their own religious faith without assistance from the legal structure of their country.

    Ulysses S. Grant:
    Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate

    and here's one that should clinch for you what the founders meant:

    Thomas Jefferson:
    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.
    letter to Connecticut Baptists

    I can get you more. Our Constitution was designed to be secular and free from religious interference, it was also designed to keep government from interefering with religion.
     
  7. theim
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    theim Senior Member

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    "The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and... if any act shall be... passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right."

    --Thomas Jefferson

    "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness-these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens"

    --George Washington

    ""It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!"

    --Patrick Henry

    "The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

    --Benjamin Franklin



    It must kill you to know our country was founded by religious zealots.




    And here's one just for you:



    "Many have quarreled about religion that never practiced it"
    --Benjamin Franklin
     
  8. acludem
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    acludem VIP Member

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    Franklin and Jefferson were deists, both were decried as Atheists in their own time. Washington wasn't particularly religious either, he generally refered to "Providence" which is some sort of higher power, but not to "God" or "Jesus". Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution and was a deeply religious person. James Madison steered to passage the Viriginia Statue for Religious Freedom in the Virginia Assembly over the objections of Patrick Henry. It was signed by then governor Thomas Jefferson. Few, if any of those deeply involved in the construction of the Constitution ever, ever argued that church and state shouldn't be separate.

    Nice try.

    acludem
     
  9. Abbey Normal
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    Abbey Normal Senior Member

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    Your summation of what you think these men believed, cannot hold an evidentiary candle to the actual quotes they made. These quotes make it clear that these were in fact, strong Christian men. They fought against a state sanctioned religion- huge difference from the ACLU's atheistic goal of obliterating Christianity in the USA.

    Nice try.
     
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  10. Bonnie
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    Bonnie Senior Member

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    Ahh yes but we are to take what ACLU Dem says as fact at face value because he is a.......... Liberal and he knows much more than any of us could ever hope to :eek:
     

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