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And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
Got to commend your tenacity gismo, but human being? Your are more like the terminator...YOU JUST WILL NOT STOP...EVER!!!
Can't fathom all the hate the atheists express. Doesn't make sense. It's simply none of my business what you believe and costs me nothing for your believing anything you believe.
It's not the Atheism that is the source of the hate, it's their Religious Belief in Liberalism. This is a religious battle, just like when Muslims attack Jews. Recognize it for what it is. The majority of obnoxious Atheists have replaced the Christianity they were born into with a different religion, Liberalism. If they quash Christianity then the clear the field for Liberalism to reign dominant. Look at the world they want to create - one filled with their religious values, Liberalism from top to bottom.
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
I know people who say they saw a ghost.
I know people who say they saw an angel
I don't believe either of them and I certainly don't believe god impregnated a woman name Mary or that her son could perform miracles.
Wait! You're an atheist but you believe the stories that Jesus performed miracles? I'm confused.
But if that's true, rot in hell stupid.
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.
As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.
Well, you have certainly patted yourself on the back here. I must wholeheartedly disagree. A Christian who has studied and has accepted God's plan for the future salvation of all His children has no fear of an eternity of fiery punishment, total and complete annihilation or any off the horrors and injustices of which you speak. We are at total peace with our faith.
That's the problem. You can be mean, evil greedy pricks and you think you are going to heaven just because you believe the Jesus myth.
Atheists have all asked, "what if I'm wrong?". You told us to ask ourselves that and we did. What we came up with was this.
It is the stupidest story I've ever heard. No chance of it being true. So, we are that sure the stories are bullshit. That takes belief. I truly believe your stories are man made up. And I'm so sure of it I'm willing to risk ETERNAL DAMNATION.
Theists on the other hand play it safe. They don't question because "it's better to be safe than sorry". So they have been scared/fooled into going along.
Christians believe unbelievable stories. Why? Because they are afraid if they don't they'll burn in hell forever. That's brainwashed.
And somehow all this effects you. Why all the anger? I'm not angry because you hate God. That you hate God has no effect at all upon me. Chill out. Anger can give you a heart attack, high blood pressure, etc.
What "anger"?
Where did he claim to "hate God"?
Why are you making things up that were never posted?
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
Only a theist would come up with that rationalization.
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.
As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.
Well, you have certainly patted yourself on the back here. I must wholeheartedly disagree. A Christian who has studied and has accepted God's plan for the future salvation of all His children has no fear of an eternity of fiery punishment, total and complete annihilation or any off the horrors and injustices of which you speak. We are at total peace with our faith.
Essentially you have tacitly admitted that it was a fear of "an eternity of fiery punishment" that caused you to "accept" under duress "God's plan for the future salvation". That you are "at peace" with a "choice" that you made without access to all of the requisite knowledge necessary to make an informed decision is simply a rationalization on your part.
Where did I say that? Nowhere. Can't you read and comprehend what I said? It's very clear. I will give you due credit for saying "many" Christians instead of saying "Christians" or "all" Christians. Those Christians of whom you do not reference do not embrace any idea of a fiery hell or place of eternal punishing. Believe it or not, we even avoid any derogatory comments against atheists or other non-believers. We do appreciate and admire anyone who places truth above disparaging comments about others.
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
Are they evil and hateful too? Why are we bad guys for doubting your made up stories but you allow other religions to basically say the same thing. Jesus was just a man. Not a god, no miracles, not the son of god, mary wasn't a virgin who gave birth.
Why are atheists bad but Jews and Muslims are not for believing the exact same thing?
Do you give them a pass because they believe in their own god? So basically you're a good guy if you believe in any god and you're evil if you don't?
Do you guys realize how stupid you sound/are?
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
Only a theist would come up with that rationalization.
Anyone who lives in a city realizes that there usually exist many paths to get from Point A to Point B.
I never once said "every single life form on this planet is identical" ..speaking of putting thought into one's posts. It's easy to slam down a disrespectful, insulting post. That process takes about as much forethought as you put into philosophy and religion, ironically. If you really put so much thought into things, you would at least attempt to consider other people's point of view without automatically turning to tantrum-mode and hurling insults. oh well.. anyhow, I have two sources. One is mainstream and the other is a journal. There are more if you throw another tantrum and insist that those two sources are flawed.. or the more likely scenario is that you don't read either at all, and monologue about how right You are and how dumb everyone else must be.
Source:
Humans are more primal - and animal-like - than we thought. Humans share a primitive response to fear with other animals, despite our ability to consciously assess danger, a new study shows.
Journal of Experimental Psychology Animal Behavior Processes - ResearchGate
You should be able to access the journal for free, but you may have to register first.
It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.
As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.
Well, you have certainly patted yourself on the back here. I must wholeheartedly disagree. A Christian who has studied and has accepted God's plan for the future salvation of all His children has no fear of an eternity of fiery punishment, total and complete annihilation or any off the horrors and injustices of which you speak. We are at total peace with our faith.
Essentially you have tacitly admitted that it was a fear of "an eternity of fiery punishment" that caused you to "accept" under duress "God's plan for the future salvation". That you are "at peace" with a "choice" that you made without access to all of the requisite knowledge necessary to make an informed decision is simply a rationalization on your part.
Where did I say that? Nowhere. Can't you read and comprehend what I said? It's very clear. I will give you due credit for saying "many" Christians instead of saying "Christians" or "all" Christians. Those Christians of whom you do not reference do not embrace any idea of a fiery hell or place of eternal punishing. Believe it or not, we even avoid any derogatory comments against atheists or other non-believers. We do appreciate and admire anyone who places truth above disparaging comments about others.
We call them cherry pickers stupid.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
Are they evil and hateful too? Why are we bad guys for doubting your made up stories but you allow other religions to basically say the same thing. Jesus was just a man. Not a god, no miracles, not the son of god, mary wasn't a virgin who gave birth.
Why are atheists bad but Jews and Muslims are not for believing the exact same thing?
Do you give them a pass because they believe in their own god? So basically you're a good guy if you believe in any god and you're evil if you don't?
Do you guys realize how stupid you sound/are?
I criticize everyone. In terms of a religions being obnoxious, putting aside liberalism, Islam is 2nd in line. Why aren't Atheists criticizing Muslims? As an Atheist any religion should be fair game, but as a Liberal there will be a sensitivity extended to Islam and to Muslims that isn't extended to Christianity and Christians. That should signal to you whether you're really an Atheist or a Liberal.
Also note that there is a difference between a group having different beliefs and a group attacking another group on the basis of the different beliefs. An Atheist who lives his life without believing in God isn't much of an issue, while an Atheist who lives and breaths Jihad against Christians is an obnoxious bug. No one really finds Buddhists that offensive but they really hate Hare Krishnas who pester them everywhere they go.
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
Are they evil and hateful too? Why are we bad guys for doubting your made up stories but you allow other religions to basically say the same thing. Jesus was just a man. Not a god, no miracles, not the son of god, mary wasn't a virgin who gave birth.
Why are atheists bad but Jews and Muslims are not for believing the exact same thing?
Do you give them a pass because they believe in their own god? So basically you're a good guy if you believe in any god and you're evil if you don't?
Do you guys realize how stupid you sound/are?
I criticize everyone. In terms of a religions being obnoxious, putting aside liberalism, Islam is 2nd in line. Why aren't Atheists criticizing Muslims? As an Atheist any religion should be fair game, but as a Liberal there will be a sensitivity extended to Islam and to Muslims that isn't extended to Christianity and Christians. That should signal to you whether you're really an Atheist or a Liberal.
Also note that there is a difference between a group having different beliefs and a group attacking another group on the basis of the different beliefs. An Atheist who lives his life without believing in God isn't much of an issue, while an Atheist who lives and breaths Jihad against Christians is an obnoxious bug. No one really finds Buddhists that offensive but they really hate Hare Krishnas who pester them everywhere they go.
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
Are they evil and hateful too? Why are we bad guys for doubting your made up stories but you allow other religions to basically say the same thing. Jesus was just a man. Not a god, no miracles, not the son of god, mary wasn't a virgin who gave birth.
Why are atheists bad but Jews and Muslims are not for believing the exact same thing?
Do you give them a pass because they believe in their own god? So basically you're a good guy if you believe in any god and you're evil if you don't?
Do you guys realize how stupid you sound/are?
I criticize everyone. In terms of a religions being obnoxious, putting aside liberalism, Islam is 2nd in line. Why aren't Atheists criticizing Muslims? As an Atheist any religion should be fair game, but as a Liberal there will be a sensitivity extended to Islam and to Muslims that isn't extended to Christianity and Christians. That should signal to you whether you're really an Atheist or a Liberal.
Also note that there is a difference between a group having different beliefs and a group attacking another group on the basis of the different beliefs. An Atheist who lives his life without believing in God isn't much of an issue, while an Atheist who lives and breaths Jihad against Christians is an obnoxious bug. No one really finds Buddhists that offensive but they really hate Hare Krishnas who pester them everywhere they go.
OMG you guys are so dumb. One of our arguments for why religions and gods are bullshit is the fucking Muslims, Mormons and the 999 other religions that came before or after Christianity.
We point out how their stupid stories are just as stupid as yours.
But you guys seem to think all other religions EXCEPT yours are wrong, so we focus on Christianity rather than generic god(s).
Also notice we have many debates with people who believe in generic god(s) too. I probably argue more with them than I do Christians/Muslims/Jews in fact.
Not too many Muslims on USMB. And I can't take anyone who takes the Old or New Testaments literally.
To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what the Jews believe. Clearly you don't have to believe in Jesus if you are Jew. What are the requirements of the Jews?
And I love pointing out that if you ask 100 Christians what they believe you'll get 100 different answers. To me that is proof that it's all made up. A lot of you may believe in God but god knows what that means because you all have your own different spins on it.
Reasoning skills really aren't your strong suit, are they?
A traffic accident happens and police go into the crowd of witnesses to take statements. They end up with 20 different version of events. Clearly, by your standards, no accident has happened and all statements have been made up by the "witnesses."
Solid reasoning there champ.
100 Christians give you 100 different answers. This could imply that 1 Christian is correct and 99 are incorrect. It could imply that God wants 100 Christians to follow 100 different paths to find him.
Either of those answers invalidates your conclusion of belief being fiction.
Stop already, your idiocy is giving the rest of us Atheists a bad reputation.
How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
Are they evil and hateful too? Why are we bad guys for doubting your made up stories but you allow other religions to basically say the same thing. Jesus was just a man. Not a god, no miracles, not the son of god, mary wasn't a virgin who gave birth.
Why are atheists bad but Jews and Muslims are not for believing the exact same thing?
Do you give them a pass because they believe in their own god? So basically you're a good guy if you believe in any god and you're evil if you don't?
Do you guys realize how stupid you sound/are?
I criticize everyone. In terms of a religions being obnoxious, putting aside liberalism, Islam is 2nd in line. Why aren't Atheists criticizing Muslims? As an Atheist any religion should be fair game, but as a Liberal there will be a sensitivity extended to Islam and to Muslims that isn't extended to Christianity and Christians. That should signal to you whether you're really an Atheist or a Liberal.
Also note that there is a difference between a group having different beliefs and a group attacking another group on the basis of the different beliefs. An Atheist who lives his life without believing in God isn't much of an issue, while an Atheist who lives and breaths Jihad against Christians is an obnoxious bug. No one really finds Buddhists that offensive but they really hate Hare Krishnas who pester them everywhere they go.
OMG you guys are so dumb. One of our arguments for why religions and gods are bullshit is the fucking Muslims, Mormons and the 999 other religions that came before or after Christianity.
We point out how their stupid stories are just as stupid as yours.
But you guys seem to think all other religions EXCEPT yours are wrong, so we focus on Christianity rather than generic god(s).
Also notice we have many debates with people who believe in generic god(s) too. I probably argue more with them than I do Christians/Muslims/Jews in fact.
Not too many Muslims on USMB. And I can't take anyone who takes the Old or New Testaments literally.
To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what the Jews believe. Clearly you don't have to believe in Jesus if you are Jew. What are the requirements of the Jews?
First off, I criticize you not because I'm a Christian, I'm an Athiest, but because of your religious belief in Liberalism.
Secondly, you make poor arguments and I can't be silent even if it means I lend support to religious people.
I'm not a Christian, I'm an Atheist, not a Religious Liberal masquerading as an Atheist and perhaps that's what is confusing you. I'm not on the same side as you because I'm not a Liberal engaged in a religious war with Christians.
Lastly, you could improve your game by actually studying what different religions are all about. You look like a putz when you argue against positions you know nothing about. Read about Jews and then you can develop arguments against Jewish faith.,
Oh fuck you. I hate conservatives no matter if they are religious or not, black or not, rich or not, gay or not.
This is what I hate about conservatives. Even if we agree, you guys can and will still argue. This is a perfect example. We agree there is no god, but you can't help but argue because you are such a right wing idiot.
Anyways, I'm now going to side with the religious conservatives now and agree with them that you are going to go to hell and burn for eternity.
Now I agree with them. Eat a dick.
They don't. The jeebus is a mere pedestrian "prophet" per the Moslem version of co-opted Judaism.How come Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?
How come they do?
I can tell from reading this that you are completely ignorant about what goes on in the heads of Christians.It has been said by many Christians that one of the primary reasons for someone being an atheist and saying that they don't believe is because they don't want to believe. They don't want to ask the hard question "What if I'm wrong?" because they can't accept the implications of that questioning. They claim that we as atheists take the easy way out but I argue that it is just the opposite. Christians downright refuse to humor any kind of questioning when it comes to their belief. They refuse to look inside themselves and ask "What if there is no God?" because they are terrified of the implications of that question. They claim we are afraid of hell but in fact it is they who are afraid of oblivion. Of nonexistence. Understandably so. The idea of ceasing to exist is unpleasant to say the least. That is why being an atheist is far from the easy way out.
As an atheist you look that unpleasant reality in the face, swallow your fear and accept it and live your life to its fullest. Being a Christian is a way of ignoring the fact that the world is an unpleasant and often unjust place where some people live their whole lives in despair before their flame of consciousness goes out forever. This world can be cruel and unfair but as atheists we accept that it's the only one we are ever going to get and that motivates us to fight our hardest to make it a better and brighter one. For our sake and for the sake of our children. We don't turn away from reality and turn a wishful eye to an afterlife that isn't going to happen.
It's not the Atheism that is the source of the hate, it's their Religious Belief in Liberalism. This is a religious battle, just like when Muslims attack Jews. Recognize it for what it is. The majority of obnoxious Atheists have replaced the Christianity they were born into with a different religion, Liberalism. If they quash Christianity then the clear the field for Liberalism to reign dominant. Look at the world they want to create - one filled with their religious values, Liberalism from top to bottom.
