F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Daryl Hunt]

No I just posted brand new piece on this just recently

If you mean the article from John Venable, it is indeed almost four years old info.

Here is something from April 2013 addressing it: Elements Of Power: The F-35 and the Infamous “Sustained G” Spec Change

That goes into details on F-35 sustained G.

No......It's current.....They were discussing the aircraft's weight gain which they said is normal for all platforms and that perhaps an updated engine was necessary to overcome the loss of acceleration especially in Navy model which is just terrible. I don't post things twice.

No I just posted brand new piece on this just recently

If you mean the article from John Venable, it is indeed almost four years old info.

Here is something from April 2013 addressing it: Elements Of Power: The F-35 and the Infamous “Sustained G” Spec Change

That goes into details on F-35 sustained G.

No......It's current.....They were discussing the aircraft's weight gain which they said is normal for all platforms and that perhaps an updated engine was necessary to overcome the loss of acceleration especially in Navy model which is just terrible. I don't post things twice.

If it was written in 2015 and back, it's the F-35A-AF2. And be very careful about "All Models" reports like you have. I noted that it drifted using the poor qualities in the F-35B and reported it like it was the A model. Two entirely different birds who just happen to share 70% of the outer skin. How about comparing a Harrier to a F-18E. That would be a similar comparison.

Any data on the F-35C is highly speculative. They are still modifying it due to some problems it has that the others don't have. Like I said, it just shares about 70% of the skin but is a mix between the A and the B model. It's a carrier bird. Meaning, it's heavier, bigger wings, heavier with an upgraded frame, heavy landing gear and mounts, etc.. It's it's own Aircraft.

Any time you read an article that says "All Models" file it in the round file.

We'll just let Red Flag speak for itself. I know the two F-35s sent to Green Flag certainly did.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No I just posted brand new piece on this just recently

If you mean the article from John Venable, it is indeed almost four years old info.

Here is something from April 2013 addressing it: Elements Of Power: The F-35 and the Infamous “Sustained G” Spec Change

That goes into details on F-35 sustained G.

It's always been about the software, not the Aircraft. 4 years ago, all testing was done on the AF-2 version that was never intended to go into production. They didn't dare take it to the 9 gee limits since it would have probably broken it. Since the A model is in the 9 gee range I imagine that it was first tested at that rate on the AF-2 after a tweak on the software to see how it would work. Then they probably dialed the AF-2 back to 6 after the tests.

Maximum allowable Gees changes with the loadout including fuel and weapons. If you were to hang everything under a F-15E that you could I doubt it would make more than 4.5 gees on a turn. Meanwhile, the F-15C easily makes a 9+ gee turn even with it's complimentary 6 missiles.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Think I said I'd settle for hold its own. Seems like a pretty minimum standard.

Right but that gets to my point, by all accounts it has been dominating other aircraft and pilot after pilot has said that their opponent never even sees them or how well it dogfights. That survey they did showed overwhelmingly pilots would rather be in an F-35 in almost every situation.

Yet you dismiss it all as propaganda and point to blog posts with specs. That is what I don't understand, it sure seems that you've got a conclusion and are going to discount any information to the contrary. All the pilots are lying, and these bloggers are right.

At what point do you take pilots who have actually flown F-35 at their word, instead of bloggers who have never flown it?

A pilot .......You now will true test with motivated opposition nice try with bloggers comment cept it all comes from defense and tech and news sites. Llmmmaaaaooko

Not from Lockheed. Certainly now from any site with a mil in the end. Not fully accredited defense sites.

I can see that you would like to read a bit of fluff. Remember, these people actually believe in this. FLAT EARTH

 

[Manonthestreet]

Bs

 

[Manonthestreet]

Since ya didn't read ya prolly shouldn't run your yapper

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Bs

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

 

[westwall]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Since almost all CAS kills are done by missiles and JDAMS then the gun just isn't that important. The A-10 is going to need a miracle.

 

[westwall]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Since almost all CAS kills are done by missiles and JDAMS then the gun just isn't that important. The A-10 is going to need a miracle.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs. Your assertion that no P-47 was ever shot down in air to air combat calls into question either your sanity or your knowledge base. I'll let you choose which is suspect.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Since almost all CAS kills are done by missiles and JDAMS then the gun just isn't that important. The A-10 is going to need a miracle.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs. Your assertion that no P-47 was ever shot down in air to air combat calls into question either your sanity or your knowledge base. I'll let you choose which is suspect.

Yes, and most of those videos are from gun cameras. Note: the picture is always moving to the right. That isn't A-10 shots, those are AC-130 shots. The A-10 would be fleeting in and always in a straight line. Most of those shots could not have been made by an A-10 unless they have Trump repeal the laws of Physics.

I am wrong about the P-47 not being shot down. It's a method to get others to comment and get the discussion going.

 

[DrainBamage]

A pilot .......You now will true test with motivated opposition nice try with bloggers comment cept it all comes from defense and tech and news sites. Llmmmaaaaooko

DefenseTech is not the US military, it is a private website that writes articles about the defense industry.

So again, what I"m trying to understand is why you dismiss commentary from pilots who actually fly F-35 about the the plane as propaganda, refusing to accept any of it as evidence of how the plane performs, yet will latch onto any negative information from non-military sources that haven't flown it?

I'm genuinely curious.

 

[DrainBamage]

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Your obsession with strafing demonstrates you are stuck in 1945.

A-10s gun is an advantage it has over other CAS platforms, and there are advantages other CAS platforms have over A-10. The overwhelming majority of CAS is done using precision guided munitions, including with the A-10. The best way to deal with a target on the ground is with a PGM.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs.

Ahhh, so this is how your intimate knowledge of what US Army troops think. Not from military service, but from counting youtube and liveleak videos.

There are more videos of A-10 gun runs because it makes a good video, you can see/hear the plane and the interesting sounds of the gun firing and rounds impacting.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Your obsession with strafing demonstrates you are stuck in 1945.

A-10s gun is an advantage it has over other CAS platforms, and there are advantages other CAS platforms have over A-10. The overwhelming majority of CAS is done using precision guided munitions, including with the A-10. The best way to deal with a target on the ground is with a PGM.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs.

Ahhh, so this is how your intimate knowledge of what US Army troops think. Not from military service, but from counting youtube and liveleak videos.

There are more videos of A-10 gun runs because it makes a good video, you can see/hear the plane and the interesting sounds of the gun firing and rounds impacting.

When those 20 some odd tankers were hit, I watched the "A-10" gun footage. It moved from left to right. There is only one type of bird that does that and that is a fixed wing Gunship. The A-10 was there to keep the enemy honest. The real kills were all done by Specter. For the AC-130 to take out 20 tankers, it's not even one orbit. many of those "Tapes" do not even belong to the A-10 since it is so short ranged. You can 10,000 rounds of ammo on a really big gun but if it is beyond your range then you have a flying Ammo truck. While the A-10 has less than a 30 minute loiter time at the end of it's range, the Gunship has over a 4 hour loiter time and it's not even close to being at the end of it's range.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Since ya didn't read ya prolly shouldn't run your yapper

Take a look at the Military area right now. Others are now posting and have things to say. They are bullying and lying out their asses. You claim this area yet you are too damned lazy to bring it. Now, you can ban me again and a lot of really good posts are going to be gone. Plus, at that point, I start my own and just how many of these good people are going to go where they are free to express themselves and be prompted to having good discussions about Military. You have a choice here. You can ban me and it goes back to where it was where only 3 people actually posted anything, you can try and build this area up, or you can remove yourself from it.

I don't care how lovey dovey you are with the ones that actually run this area. I have choices as well. So what's it going to be.

 

[DrainBamage]

Soldiers on the ground taking fire from bad guys on the hill only care about one thing... the bad guys being neutralized. Whether it is a JDAM from a B-1 they never even saw or a dramatic A-10 gun spam makes no difference.

 

[westwall]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Since almost all CAS kills are done by missiles and JDAMS then the gun just isn't that important. The A-10 is going to need a miracle.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs. Your assertion that no P-47 was ever shot down in air to air combat calls into question either your sanity or your knowledge base. I'll let you choose which is suspect.

Yes, and most of those videos are from gun cameras. Note: the picture is always moving to the right. That isn't A-10 shots, those are AC-130 shots. The A-10 would be fleeting in and always in a straight line. Most of those shots could not have been made by an A-10 unless they have Trump repeal the laws of Physics.

I am wrong about the P-47 not being shot down. It's a method to get others to comment and get the discussion going.

You are incorrect. The MAJORITY are A-10. And the majority are from the grunts on the ground.

 

[westwall]

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Your obsession with strafing demonstrates you are stuck in 1945.

A-10s gun is an advantage it has over other CAS platforms, and there are advantages other CAS platforms have over A-10. The overwhelming majority of CAS is done using precision guided munitions, including with the A-10. The best way to deal with a target on the ground is with a PGM.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs.

Ahhh, so this is how your intimate knowledge of what US Army troops think. Not from military service, but from counting youtube and liveleak videos.

There are more videos of A-10 gun runs because it makes a good video, you can see/hear the plane and the interesting sounds of the gun firing and rounds impacting.

You know what's funny. You weren't posting when your good buddy was on vacation. Now you only post when he posts, and you seem to only post in threads where he needs support. Hmmm. Very suspicious....

 

[Daryl Hunt]

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Your obsession with strafing demonstrates you are stuck in 1945.

A-10s gun is an advantage it has over other CAS platforms, and there are advantages other CAS platforms have over A-10. The overwhelming majority of CAS is done using precision guided munitions, including with the A-10. The best way to deal with a target on the ground is with a PGM.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs.

Ahhh, so this is how your intimate knowledge of what US Army troops think. Not from military service, but from counting youtube and liveleak videos.

There are more videos of A-10 gun runs because it makes a good video, you can see/hear the plane and the interesting sounds of the gun firing and rounds impacting.

You know what's funny. You weren't posting when your good buddy was on vacation. Now you only post when he posts, and you seem to only post in threads where he needs support. Hmmm. Very suspicious....

You and West seem to do that as well. Of course, I can think of many things to do a conspiracy about. Way to tray and stifle discussion. You should be proud of yourself. Maybe we need to go back to where it was where only your good buddy was allowed to post.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A-10 vs. F-35 Flyoff May Begin Next Year: General

Posted By: Oriana Pawlyk January 25, 2017

The future flyoff between the Cold War-era A-10 ground attack aircraft and the F-35 fifth-generation stealth fighter will be “very interesting,” a general said.


The A-10 Thunderbolt II is set to go up against the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a series of weapons tests as early as next year under a stipulation in the latest National Defense Authorization Act, the annual defense policy and spending bill.


The legislation also prohibits retirement of the lumbering, low-flying, snub-nosed aircraft popularly known as the Warthog until the Air Force can prove the F-35’s ability to conduct close air support missions on the battlefield.


“It’ll be a very interesting test,” said Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program’s integration office for the service.


“The A-10 was built to deal with tanks in Europe,” he said. “A low, slow, big cannon on the front of it meant to destroy tanks and assist troops in contacts and do [close-air support]” a mission the aircraft has flown more recently in the Middle East against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.


Pleus added, “CAS is a mission, not an airplane.”


RELATED: Air Force Mulls Low-Cost Fighter Experiment


The cannon the general referred to is the 30mm, seven-barrel GAU-8/A Avenger in the nose of the Warthog. The weapon can hold as many as 1,174 rounds and is configured to fire at a fixed rate of fire of 3,900 rounds per minute.


The F-35 also features a gatling gun, albeit a smaller and lighter one.


The GAU-22/A, a four-barrel version of the 25mm GAU-12/U Equalizer rotary cannon found on the Marine Corps’ AV-8B Harrier II jump set, is designed to be internally mounted on the Air Force’s F-35A version of the aircraft and hold 182 rounds. It’s slated to be externally mounted on the Marine Corps’ F-35B jump-jet variant and the Navy’s F-35C aircraft carrier version and hold 220 rounds.


RELATED: F-35 Could Carry B61 Nuclear Warhead Sooner Than Planned


“The A-10 is a great CAS platform in a no-threat environment,” Pleus said, adding it was never meant to be a fast, high-flying aircraft that could maneuver in a contested environment — like in current parts of Europe, the Middle East and Asia.


The test between the A-10 and F-35 will be structured and certified by the Defense Department’s Operational Test and Evaluation Office, Pleus said. “That plan is something they are still developing” for the comparison testing “to start undergoing in 2018,” he said.


Citing his F-16 experience, Pleus said he would bet the A-10 comes out “as the better CAS platform” in a no-threat environment against the F-35, which performs similarly to the Fighting Falcon. But “as you now start to built the threat up, the A-10s won’t even enter the airspace before they get shot down — not even within 20 miles within the target.”


In that case, the F-35 would be the only aircraft left flying — even against more current versions of fighters.


Pleus said the argument isn’t over whether the A-10 has and can still perform close air support missions. The decision for Air Force leadership and lawmakers going forward, however, is how to distribute the resources to platforms that can do the mission, he said.


“Where are you getting your bang for your buck?” he said. “A single-platform A-10 that only does CAS and can’t do anything else and it has to be in an uncontested environment is probably not a realistic place for us to be continuing funding…for the future.”


The general continued, “If I were to develop that plan you have to show that the close air support is not just in a no-threat environment, because CAS is not always in a no-threat environment.


Pleus said, “When we get to the actual testing I think that’s where you’re going to see the differences.”

220 light weight rounds vs 1300+ much more effective rounds. I know which one the ground troops would rather have supporting them...

Since almost all CAS kills are done by missiles and JDAMS then the gun just isn't that important. The A-10 is going to need a miracle.

Funny, the guys on the ground don't think so. Go to youtube or liveleak and the majority of CAS videos uploaded are of A-10 gun runs. Your assertion that no P-47 was ever shot down in air to air combat calls into question either your sanity or your knowledge base. I'll let you choose which is suspect.

Yes, and most of those videos are from gun cameras. Note: the picture is always moving to the right. That isn't A-10 shots, those are AC-130 shots. The A-10 would be fleeting in and always in a straight line. Most of those shots could not have been made by an A-10 unless they have Trump repeal the laws of Physics.

I am wrong about the P-47 not being shot down. It's a method to get others to comment and get the discussion going.

You are incorrect. The MAJORITY are A-10. And the majority are from the grunts on the ground.

Wrong, the majority are from Gun Cameras. You honestly believe that a grunt being shot up takes the time to drag out his phone and record things? That would be one very dumb and very dead grunt. Have you ever sat in a bunker hunkered down taking fire?