Explaining Regulation to the NPR Crowd...

[Ravi]

Really? A self-employed person that wants to make a wooden train set might face $4000 or $5000 in testing and imprinted lot codes (needs to be done for EACH PIECE).. Think there's "a hundred hungry souls" stupid enough to think that they will make a living under such a burden?

Is your 10 year old spending hours suckling on the tire rims of his scooter?

I've got 24 years constant exposure to lead solder in the electronics biz.. I've often soldered with a slice of pizza in one hand and a soldering iron in the other. I asked my doc to run lead tox screens on me and NEVER showed any elevation. And for THAT -- you want libraries to start purging old children's books?

You want a reason for economic malaise -- here it is right in front of your nose.

And WHY IS IT -- that the govt TRUSTS MATTEL to do self-compliance? Is that FINE with you?

It doesn't cost $4,000 to $5,000 for each piece.

I wish you twits would run a candidate that claims wanting to ensure lead free toys is fascism. At least we'd some refreshingly honest stupidity to listen to.



Apparently this regulation of Dubya's didn't hurt her business at all. I just checked the website and she is still selling her wooden toys.

You aren't actually answering my questions like why MATTEL should be exempt? Or why products that OBVIOUSLY don't contain any of these substances -- still need to be certified.

I didn't say that EACH PIECE costs $4K to $5.. I said "a wooden train set" might cost that amount. BECAUSE each piece is independently charged for testing. (reading comp problems due to chemical exposure?)

I bought my daughter a wooden ARK at a craft fair 6 years ago. Had at least 40 HAND CARVED wooden animals in it. I imagine that's over $10,000 in testing and compliance with this reg...

No, it wouldn't cost that much. And that isn't how the regulation works. You are misrepresenting everything. I'm not surprised, really. Well, I suppose you could just be really stupid?

Mattel shouldn't be exempt. But this is what Republicans tend to do: favor corporate America.

 

[flacaltenn]

No, it wouldn't cost that much. And that isn't how the regulation works. You are misrepresenting everything. I'm not surprised, really. Well, I suppose you could just be really stupid?

Mattel shouldn't be exempt. But this is what Republicans tend to do: favor corporate America.

Either you didn't read the OP or you're being intentionally stupid.. Let's try 4th grade math word problems. If a toy train has 12 individual pieces and EACH PIECE must be labeled with lot # and certified for different substances AND EACH TEST runs $300 -- How much does it cost for TESTING and certifying the entire product?

That's $3600 to testing lab and several thousand in days of arranging, and preparing documentation and compliance. WELL in excess of $4000 my dear math challenged lefty.. Also has to figure out how to print lot #s on each piece, keep the paperwork for lot #s, ect, ect.

But what if you're a guy who's living depends on producing rocking horses? Each model might be custom or different. Is he exempt? NO.. He should "piss-off and move to China" according to Ravi.

What if you're a distributor for either of those Artisian German toy companies that will END their imports in America? That distributor should "piss-off and move to China"..

What if you make your living crafting custom baby quilts... Well obviously Ravi thinks "you should piss off and move to China".

What if you're a community thrift store and you can't verify origin of the items, including books, bicycles and clothing.. Just "piss off and move to China"..

Or a custom children's bike manufacturer who decides to IGNORE this Fed Regulation by civil disobedience and gets caught? He can't just "piss off and move to China" after the Feds are done with him.. And BTW -- can you tell me why BICYCLES are subject to lead, phalate testing? Are your 10 year olds spending the day leaping ramps and sucking on the tire rims??

"Piss off and move to China" -- "You are misrepresenting everything" --- "stupid" --- that's helpful...

Learn: Myth Versus Fact


Myth: This Law is About Toys.
Fact: This is the one single aspect of the CPSIA that the media continues to misrepresent. The law applies to every product intended for a child age 12 and under, from clothing to bicycles. Toys, clothes, furniture, books, jewelry, blankets, games, CDs/DVDs, strollers, and footwear, may all be considered children’s products. Even thrift shops are required to comply with the law, although they have no means of doing so without purchasing a $40,000 x-ray testing gun.

Myth: The HTA is Battling Consumer Groups who Helped Create the CPSIA.
Fact: Here we have one of the central paradoxes of the CPSIA universe. Members and leaders of groups like US-PIRG, the National Resources Defense Fund, The Consumer Federation, and Consumer's Union often admit that they did not intend to destroy our little businesses. Many have stated that when they buy products for their children, they buy from folks like us. Some have even argued incorrectly that we have nothing to fear and that the CPSIA contains exemptions for handmade products. We agree with these groups that lead and phthalates should be banned, but would like it done in a way that doesn't destroy small manufacturers.

Myth: Further clarification is all that is needed.
Fact: A poorly written, needlessly broad, complex, and hard to understand law cannot be turned into a well written, targeted, effective, and easy to understand law through the regulatory process. Core problems with the economics of third party testing, administrative burdens of managing lot numbers and certificates, economics of permanent labeling on small production runs--to name just a few issues--are not solved merely by having them explained clearly.

The irony is --- this craft alternative to crass consumer goods exists EXACTLY for the left-leaning Birkenstock crowd. And now they are getting a taste of their medicine..

 

[flacaltenn]

Our Members

34 PAGES of companies and individuals that are fighting against Fed Regs in order to preserve US handmade Artisian products for kids and families..

 

[Big Fitz]

Regulations intended for "BIG TOY" -- Instead threaten the extinction of craft and custom handmade goods for children..

Plenty of lefties on USMB who look to govt as the only thing that stands between them and free market anarchy. Don't get why everyone's screaming about "regulation" being a major factor in our economic decline.. Here's a lesson that hits the left squarely in their own crotch..

Dangerous Toys, Strange Bedfellows - Reason Magazine

Cecilia Leibovitz is the kind of person who writes sentences
like: “Children are individuals, each with their own unique
personality, so I just couldn’t feel good about buying
mass-produced toys and clothing from cookie-cutter chain stores.”
Leibovitz is the 36-year-old founder of Craftsbury Kids, a
Vermont-based online vendor of handmade toys. She sells the type
of gear that arty, upscale, NPR-listening parents can’t get
enough of: sock monkeys, baby onesies featuring a “hand-stamped
and appliquéd” crow with “crocheted flowers and recycled fabric
grass,” even a carved wooden “707 Air Force One plane” with “a
beautiful silk screened portrait of President John F. Kennedy.”

So no one was more surprised than Leibovitz last winter when she
found herself on the wrong side of federal law, fighting against
consumer safety groups, and building alliances with Republican
congressmen to defend free markets.

It all started with the panic over Chinese toys in the summer of
2007. Against a backdrop of daily scare stories about kids
gnawing on knick-knacks full of lead, Mattel recalled a
staggering 19 million toys. The news made headlines for weeks.
Leibovitz and her compatriots had been anticipating the backlash
against industrial Chinese toys for years. When the Polly Pockets
hit the fan, here was a cadre of crafty hipsters ready to fill
the void, making toys, clothes, and even foodstuffs in small
U.S.-based factories and home workshops. Leibovitz remembers
thinking the Mattel recall would be good for business. And for a
while, it was: In September 2007, when holiday sales started to
ramp up, “there was just suddenly a huge demand for wooden
natural toys and alter-native toys that were made in the U.S.,”
she says. Her suppliers worked feverishly to fill orders.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found
themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms
of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now
illegal until proven clean.

Before the legislation, says Leibovitz, “I’d never really gotten
involved politically. I’ve just tried to work in my own life.”
But a lot of what she thought she knew about the political
process turned out to be wrong. She was discouraged to discover
how little power citizens, and even individual lawmakers, have
over legislation. Consumer safety groups, she says, ended up
getting exactly what they wanted.

“I’ve been supportive of some of these groups,” she says. “I
actually blogged about this safety issue in 2007, thinking we
were just focusing on problem products. I didn’t realize how
massive the law would be and how many products it would cover.”

That folks is what you call "battlefield conversion" or a "coming to religion" moment for a politically estranged hipster.. How bad is it??

As a direct result of the CPSIA, some business is already drying
up. Selecta, a German maker of wooden toys popular with the DIY
consumer set, announced that it would no longer export toys to
the United States as of the end of 2008, leaving its 1,200 U.S.
retailers high and dry. HABA, another German toymaker, has
removed its line of jewelry from 2009 catalogs. Since lead is
completely banned in all objects intended for children, dirt
bikes and other kids’ bicycles containing tiny amounts of lead in
their mechanical parts will become illegal.

The CPSIA also requires that children’s books
printed before 1985 be individually tested to rule out the
presence of lead paint or other hazardous materials, a provision
that has angered librarians and caused some used bookstores to
trash much of their vintage stock.

This is OUTRAGEOUS.. All because Congress can't write competent legislation and exercise ANY rational judgement about risk/reward. The craft kid supply industry in this country is in LITERAL danger of extinction. Not to mention publishers, clothes manufacturers, and any other US cottage industry..

The BIGGEST KICK in the NUTS??? Mattel -- the "Big Toy" giant that started this controversy -- gets an EXEMPTION from this onerous law.. Lefty causes DECIMATING small biz and supporting "big toy"...

Second biggest kick in the nuts? MOST independent testing shops for these requirements are now located in China.. The place that contaminated the products that caused this knee-jerk.

Learn: Problems With CPSIA

All of these changes will be fairly easy for large, multinational
toy manufacturers to comply with. Large manufacturers who make
thousands of units of each toy have very little incremental cost
to pay for testing and update their molds to include batch
labels.

For small toymakers and manufacturers of children's products,
however, the costs of mandatory testing will likely drive them
out of business.

■A toymaker, for example, who makes wooden cars in his garage in
Maine to supplement his income cannot afford the $300 - $4,000
fee per toy that testing labs are charging to assure compliance
with the CPSIA.
■A work at home mom in Minnesota who makes cloth diapers to sell
online must choose either to violate the law or cease operations.
■A small toy retailer in Vermont who imports wooden toys from
Europe, which has long had stringent toy safety standards, must
now pay for testing on every toy they import.
■And even the handful of larger toy makers who still employ
workers in the United States face increased costs to comply with
the CPSIA, even though American-made toys had nothing to do with
the toy safety problems of 2007.

The CPSIA simply forgot to exclude the class of children's goods
that have earned and kept the public's trust: Toys, clothes, and
accessories made by small businesses where the owners are
personally involved in the creation of their goods. The result,
unless the law is modified, is that handmade children's products
will no longer be legal in the US.

If this law had been applied to the food industry, every farmers
market in the country would be forced to close while Kraft and
Dole prospered.

Next time a lefty asks for "examples" of how regulations are hobbling the economy -- Please send them here...

This is why the federal government should be limited. There is no reason for them to be involved in this.

 

[daveman]

The law bans lead and phthalates in toys, books, clothes, and any other object intended for children under 12. To enforce these rules, the law requires every toymaker, distributor, or retailer who sells products in the U.S. to certify each of its models through third-party testing, labeling every item with an individual date and batch number.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now illegal until proven clean.

Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.

Don't you bitch and moan about outsourcing?

Wait, what am I thinking, expecting consistency from a leftist? They can't exist without double standards.

 

[daveman]

Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.

There's that liberal concern over the unemployed and small business owners we've all come to know.

If you don't want to buy toys that haven't been tested, who the fuck is forcing you to?

You behave just like a Nazi brownshirted thug.

When fascism comes to America, it will be carrying a protest sign and screeching, "It's for the children!!"

 

[flacaltenn]

Big Fitz:

This is why the federal government should be limited. There is no reason for them to be involved in this.

I'm not against trying to make this stuff safer.. But this ISN'T the way to do it. It can kill an entire small biz industry. Why not just allow them to certify CONTENTS? That the RAW materials they used are certified. Or allow independent certification like for Organic foods?

Do we really have Ag Dept inspections of Farmer's Markets? And aren't Farmer Markets supposed to be the freshest, healthiest source of LOCAL food? Once regulations start creeping up the stuff that the lefties hold dear --- MAYBE they'll get the idea.. Or NPR will give it to them..

 

[Ravi]

So, I did read up on this and it does seem a rather stupid law.

Thank you, President Bush.

 

[jillian]

The law bans lead and phthalates in toys, books, clothes, and any other object intended for children under 12. To enforce these rules, the law requires every toymaker, distributor, or retailer who sells products in the U.S. to certify each of its models through third-party testing, labeling every item with an individual date and batch number.

Overnight, a bunch of cheerful believers in good government found themselves on the wrong side of a do-gooding law. Under the terms of the new rules, their lead-free, hand-crafted toys were now illegal until proven clean.

Boo fucking hoo. Why would I trust some random person's claim that their toys, toys that will end up being chewed on by my children, are lead free.

Piss off and move to China.

thank you. i'm always particularly amused when someone who's clearly doing nothing more than regurgitating rightwingnut talking points is going to "explain" anything at all.

maybe he chewed on too many unregulated lead-based toys when he was younger.

 

[jillian]

WHAT? Not a single lefty arguing that THIS is not an example of regulation killing the economy? Ruining folks ability to support themselves? C'mon -- defend the kids.. Tell me how this keeps "big toy" from killing babies...

why is it always rightwingnuts who stamp their little cyber feet and demand attention?

if you were interesting, perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say.

 

[daveman]

WHAT? Not a single lefty arguing that THIS is not an example of regulation killing the economy? Ruining folks ability to support themselves? C'mon -- defend the kids.. Tell me how this keeps "big toy" from killing babies...

why is it always rightwingnuts who stamp their little cyber feet and demand attention?

if you were interesting, perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say.

Always?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...-rightwingers-on-this-board-such-pussies.html

 

[jillian]

WHAT? Not a single lefty arguing that THIS is not an example of regulation killing the economy? Ruining folks ability to support themselves? C'mon -- defend the kids.. Tell me how this keeps "big toy" from killing babies...

why is it always rightwingnuts who stamp their little cyber feet and demand attention?

if you were interesting, perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say.

Always?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...-rightwingers-on-this-board-such-pussies.html

ok.. almost always.

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[daveman]

why is it always rightwingnuts who stamp their little cyber feet and demand attention?

if you were interesting, perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say.

Always?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-f...-rightwingers-on-this-board-such-pussies.html

ok.. almost always.

 

[FA_Q2]

This is the problem with overreaching regulation that does not take situation into account. Why can they simply not verify the materials used in the construction in the first place. Far easier..


The fact that Mattel is waivered is an outrage though. That is simply fucking unacceptable. It was the big box toy companies that started this train with Chinese products and here they are, writing legislation that ignores the problem entirely. Do people STILL not get why regulation favors large corps? That is the problem with regulations in the first place.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I like NPR. It comes in clear.

 

[flacaltenn]

WHAT? Not a single lefty arguing that THIS is not an example of regulation killing the economy? Ruining folks ability to support themselves? C'mon -- defend the kids.. Tell me how this keeps "big toy" from killing babies...

why is it always rightwingnuts who stamp their little cyber feet and demand attention?

if you were interesting, perhaps others would be interested in what you have to say.

Jillian: It's simple.. Some of us "wingnuts" don't care to waste time with one-liner threads.

I posted all this information (which is DEFINATELY not slanted right -- see the NPR quotes or the HomeMade Toys Alliance) -- so that it could be linked to the next time some lefty airhead needed an example of ANY Federal regulation killing jobs.

To make it more INTERESTING for you -- how about THIS regulation being Bush's fault? Is THAT enough to ask you to care?

Unfortunately for you -- that would require more than a Gnat's concentration and some mad skills. So just ignore it and go bark at squirrels..

 

[flacaltenn]

I like NPR. It comes in clear.

I try -- but the head jerking transistions from ganster rap to opera just disorient the hell out of me..