Everything Obama does is political, Why release Oil reserves now?

[JRK]

Genius. It costs money to transport and handle the oil. So refilling the reserve could cost more than the oil sold brought, because there are transaction costs on both ends.

Holy shit! You're kidding, right? Oh wait, you're serious? Really?

Hint: The price of transportation is built into the price of the oil. And those aren't transaction costs. Have you ever noticed that the price of oil is not proportional to the distance the oil traveled to reach the pump?

Really? If I buy oil in NY and want it refined in New Orleans it costs nothing to get it there? I guess pipeline companies, shipping outfits, and truckers work for free. As do the people who staff the Strategic facility.
You are truly dense.

The liberal has no conception of what things cost
like the Federal govt getting 18 cents off of every gallon of gas sold
for doing nothing

 

[JRK]

It's coming down because the reserves are being sold. That will happen any time a large amount of a commodity is sold.



So in your opinion the government shouldn't use the strategic reserve to moderate speculation, protect the economy and draw a profit? Oh wait, Obama did it...nevermind.

Answers to your question.....No and No..
The SPR exists for national emergencies such as major supply interruptions due to natural disasters such as Katrina. Or in case of war or insurgency.
The Reserve is not a political tool for the chief executive.
The size of the SPR release by Obama last week was just two days worth of US Consumption but it will take 3 weeks to replace it. By law that oil MUST be replaced.
Obama was simply trying to shore up his political base.
It didn't work.

Umm the rivers were flooded disrupting crude delilveries to refineries and the flood also such down refineries.
So how did releasing more oil that could not get to the refineries which were shut down help anything at all after Katrina?
Bush's release was symbolic and political as well.

Would you please provide links?
also the amount tax revenue we get from these products as well as the incomes they create are going to be replaced with what if we keepkilling this industry?

 

[The Rabbi]

Holy shit! You're kidding, right? Oh wait, you're serious? Really?

Hint: The price of transportation is built into the price of the oil. And those aren't transaction costs. Have you ever noticed that the price of oil is not proportional to the distance the oil traveled to reach the pump?

Really? If I buy oil in NY and want it refined in New Orleans it costs nothing to get it there? I guess pipeline companies, shipping outfits, and truckers work for free. As do the people who staff the Strategic facility.
You are truly dense.

The liberal has no conception of what things cost
like the Federal govt getting 18 cents off of every gallon of gas sold
for doing nothing

In the lib mindset everything is free or needs to be paid by someone else.

 

[JRK]

Really? If I buy oil in NY and want it refined in New Orleans it costs nothing to get it there? I guess pipeline companies, shipping outfits, and truckers work for free. As do the people who staff the Strategic facility.
You are truly dense.

The liberal has no conception of what things cost
like the Federal govt getting 18 cents off of every gallon of gas sold
for doing nothing

In the lib mindset everything is free or needs to be paid by someone else.

The problem with that is what are they going to do when we run out of money?
its being printed now beyond belief'

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well, I appreciate you admitting that it was a tiny portion of the reserves - which we can now replace at a lower price.

You're evading the issue which is Obama used the SPR for political purposes.
The release caused a temporary drop in oil prices caused by ........speculators....Hmm, I thought those bastards want prices to rise!!!!

Either you don't understand the role of speculation in the market or you're just avoiding the facts. Increasing the supply of oil to the market decreases the value of futures contracts, which in turn reduces the value in a long speculators portfolio.

But hey, you stay classy!

Holy crap....I just got through telling you the futures price drop was short lived. Obama got a short boost in approval. The next day, the price of WTLSC on the NYMEX recovered the drop from the previous day.
This was not an increase of any significance. It was 2.5 days of US consumption. Nothing.
If Obama was really interested in giving us price relief he'd lift the Gulf oil drilling ban.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What are you talking about? The oil gets transported all over the world. Transporting it from Mexico to California is no greater expense that transporting it from NOLA to the Northeast.

Genius. It costs money to transport and handle the oil. So refilling the reserve could cost more than the oil sold brought, because there are transaction costs on both ends.

Holy shit! You're kidding, right? Oh wait, you're serious? Really?

Hint: The price of transportation is built into the price of the oil. And those aren't transaction costs. Have you ever noticed that the price of oil is not proportional to the distance the oil traveled to reach the pump?

Unreal. This is pointless. You have your mind made upthat you know everything about this matter and no amount of factual commentary will change that.
That makes you irrational in your thoughts on the issue. There is no reasoning with an irrational person.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Really? If I buy oil in NY and want it refined in New Orleans it costs nothing to get it there? I guess pipeline companies, shipping outfits, and truckers work for free. As do the people who staff the Strategic facility.
You are truly dense.

If you buy oil in NY, it won't be put in a truck in Albany and shipped to NOLA for delivery back to you. It's a bit too fungible for your little scenario.

Why aren't gas prices directly correlated with distance from refineries? Why isn't the price of of Coca Cola correlated to distance from production? How can it be that paper produced in Oregon costs the same in California, Texas and Vermont?

Oh but they are, Why the fuck is gas so expensive in Hawaii?
Why are prices higher in rural areas that are far from terminals. Why is gas( excluding taxes) relatively inexpensive in the northeast?
If you think shipping costs are immaterial, you truly have no clue what it is you're posting about.
Gasoline Zone Pricing
Shipping costs are the same to all destinations, huh?
Oil Transportation

For Christ's sake, please stop commenting about this issue. It's embarrassing.

 

[lomez]

I'm a trader.

Ban the trading of oil, except by those who have a legit. need to hedge..........and guess what would happen?

$30 oil within 30 days. Oil is manipulated by the biggest of the big.

don't believe me? Consider this- oil went from (about) $30 to $146 to $25 to $110......in 24 months. MEANWHILE, there was NEVER a shortage, ever, at any time....NEVER. Do the math. Some BIG "entities" are pocketing hundreds of billions $$$. That $$$$$$ is coming all consumers. It's a hidden tax.

 

[JRK]

If we eliminate those who trade oil on a free market, thats what we call a socialized event. if one chooses to, then what would be the next event to be taken over? Who chooses then which person profits from these events?
Oil prices are the least of our worries.
Jobs
no jobs what we pay for gas will not matter

 

[editec]

Who chooses then which person profits from these events?

It is obvious who are real players in the commodities market.

Those players who either produce oil or those who will accept deliver of it.

Everybody else who are buying or selling futures contracts are speculators, as they have no intention of either delivering or accepting delivery of the oil.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who chooses then which person profits from these events?

It is obvious who are real players in the commodities market.

Those players who either produce oil or those who will accept deliver of it.

Everybody else who are buying or selling futures contracts are speculators, as they have no intention of either delivering or accepting delivery of the oil.

OK. And? So what?

 

[lomez]

If we eliminate those who trade oil on a free market, thats what we call a socialized event. if one chooses to, then what would be the next event to be taken over? Who chooses then which person profits from these events?
Oil prices are the least of our worries.
Jobs
no jobs what we pay for gas will not matter

"socialized event" ?? Socialism is the spreading of benefits to all people, regardless of if they earned it/them. Stopping the manipulation of futures contracts via complex structures and computer aided algorithms, thus 100% removing any thought of supply and demand from the pricing equation......that's what I'm talking about. And no, that's not "socialism".

The other alternative would be to place a 100% margin requirement for non-consuming hedgers.

 

[The Rabbi]

If we eliminate those who trade oil on a free market, thats what we call a socialized event. if one chooses to, then what would be the next event to be taken over? Who chooses then which person profits from these events?
Oil prices are the least of our worries.
Jobs
no jobs what we pay for gas will not matter

"socialized event" ?? Socialism is the spreading of benefits to all people, regardless of if they earned it/them. Stopping the manipulation of futures contracts via complex structures and computer aided algorithms, thus 100% removing any thought of supply and demand from the pricing equation......that's what I'm talking about. And no, that's not "socialism".

The other alternative would be to place a 100% margin requirement for non-consuming hedgers.

Prices are set either by supply and demand in a capitalist system or by government fiat in a communist system.
Which one did you just propose?

Your proposal would cause prices to gyrate wildly.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Genius. It costs money to transport and handle the oil. So refilling the reserve could cost more than the oil sold brought, because there are transaction costs on both ends.

Holy shit! You're kidding, right? Oh wait, you're serious? Really?

Hint: The price of transportation is built into the price of the oil. And those aren't transaction costs. Have you ever noticed that the price of oil is not proportional to the distance the oil traveled to reach the pump?

Really? If I buy oil in NY and want it refined in New Orleans it costs nothing to get it there? I guess pipeline companies, shipping outfits, and truckers work for free. As do the people who staff the Strategic facility.
You are truly dense.

Where are you buying oil in NY?

 

[lomez]

If we eliminate those who trade oil on a free market, thats what we call a socialized event. if one chooses to, then what would be the next event to be taken over? Who chooses then which person profits from these events?
Oil prices are the least of our worries.
Jobs
no jobs what we pay for gas will not matter

"socialized event" ?? Socialism is the spreading of benefits to all people, regardless of if they earned it/them. Stopping the manipulation of futures contracts via complex structures and computer aided algorithms, thus 100% removing any thought of supply and demand from the pricing equation......that's what I'm talking about. And no, that's not "socialism".

The other alternative would be to place a 100% margin requirement for non-consuming hedgers.

Prices are set either by supply and demand in a capitalist system or by government fiat in a communist system.
Which one did you just propose

Your proposal would cause prices to gyrate wildly.

Now THAT'S funny. "The system I propose would cause prices to gyrate wildly" ?? No, I'm suggesting 100% supply and demand, and to ELIMINATE all the manipulation via GIANT banks and trading firms who have zero real need for oil, but do all the trading.

You want to talk about "gyrations"?? $30 to $150 to $25 to $110 in 24 months, while never once having any form of supply shortage. That's what DID happen. Shut down the giant traders who manipulating the price of oil, and thus the price of EVERYTHING.!

 

[editec]

Who chooses then which person profits from these events?

It is obvious who are real players in the commodities market.

Those players who either produce oil or those who will accept deliver of it.

Everybody else who are buying or selling futures contracts are speculators, as they have no intention of either delivering or accepting delivery of the oil.

OK. And? So what?

My response addressed the question: Who are purely speculators and who are the truly interested buyers and sellers of oil?

The difference is easily found by asking oneself:

Is this futures player going to either deliver or accept delivery of the oil?

 

[The Rabbi]

"socialized event" ?? Socialism is the spreading of benefits to all people, regardless of if they earned it/them. Stopping the manipulation of futures contracts via complex structures and computer aided algorithms, thus 100% removing any thought of supply and demand from the pricing equation......that's what I'm talking about. And no, that's not "socialism".

The other alternative would be to place a 100% margin requirement for non-consuming hedgers.

Prices are set either by supply and demand in a capitalist system or by government fiat in a communist system.
Which one did you just propose

Your proposal would cause prices to gyrate wildly.

Now THAT'S funny. "The system I propose would cause prices to gyrate wildly" ?? No, I'm suggesting 100% supply and demand, and to ELIMINATE all the manipulation via GIANT banks and trading firms who have zero real need for oil, but do all the trading.

You want to talk about "gyrations"?? $30 to $150 to $25 to $110 in 24 months, while never once having any form of supply shortage. That's what DID happen. Shut down the giant traders who manipulating the price of oil, and thus the price of EVERYTHING.!

Fewer market players means a smaller market, means more volatility in price. During the time mentioned demand, esp from China a well as the US increased. That's your price increase right there.

 

[The Rabbi]

It is obvious who are real players in the commodities market.

Those players who either produce oil or those who will accept deliver of it.

Everybody else who are buying or selling futures contracts are speculators, as they have no intention of either delivering or accepting delivery of the oil.

OK. And? So what?

My response addressed the question: Who are purely speculators and who are the truly interested buyers and sellers of oil?

The difference is easily found by asking oneself:

Is this futures player going to either deliver or accept delivery of the oil?

Do you think every oil company accepts delivery of the futures contract they bought?

 

[JRK]

Rabbi the biggest problem this country faces is people who have no idea how this works

Fuel cost are a driving force in what things in this country cost, but it is not the reason we have 10% UE
that has much to do with we have no sector to replace the housing market
Like the extraction of shale oil
the delivery of
the refinement of
the sale of the product

Thats a place to start

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi the biggest problem this country faces is people who have no idea how this works

Fuel cost are a driving force in what things in this country cost, but it is not the reason we have 10% UE
that has much to do with we have no sector to replace the housing market
Like the extraction of shale oil
the delivery of
the refinement of
the sale of the product

Thats a place to start

That includes the President and all of his advisors. They think telling people to start hiring will create jobs. None of them has worked at a productive job a day in his life.

The issue is:
1) Let banks foreclose and clear the housing market.
2) Repeal Dodd-Frank and allow banks to lend money again
3) Raise interest rates to 1% and eliminate asett bubbles
4) Replace the hodge podge of temporary tax breaks with a streamlined simplified tax code people can udnerstand.
5) Implement tort reform.