Eva Bartlett on Gaza in Crisis - An Eyewitness Report

[Eloy]

Eloy,

OK just because you asked...

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you not implying that a HAMAS/PIJ Leadership Personality and other HVTs are off-limits just because they are "at home with the wife and kids." Is that not the very essence of a "Human Shield" (“utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations”)?

Just like the C3I Targets of the conventional arena, these HAMAS/PIJ and other HVTs are legitimate targets. If the HVTs choose to hid behind civilian human shields, it becomes a violation of Customary IHL; even if the shields are family members.

So you think that a man at home with the wife and kids is using them for "human shields?"

You are one sick fucker.

(COMMENT)

You are attempting advocating that, for the purpose of survivability, that HAMAS/PIJ Leadership Personality and other HVTs run home to mama so as to prevent Israeli engagement.

The test to determine if an attack is proportional is found in AP I, art. 51(5)(b): “[a]n attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated” violates the principle of proportionality.

The Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) knows that Customary and International Humanitarian Law REQUIRES to the extent feasible, avoid locating HAMAS/PIJ Leadership Personality and other HVTs within or near densely populated areas.

Most Respectfully,
R

I do not know what you are writing about because you are using unexplained anagrams.You have explained only one.

(ANSWERS)

Acronym
An acronym is a word or name formed as an abbreviation from the initial components in a phrase or a word, usually individual letters (as in NATO or laser) and sometimes syllables (as in Benelux). There is no universal standardization of the various names for such abbreviations and of their orthographic styling.

In the order in which the appear in my Posting #36 (supra)

1. HAMAS/PIJ = Islamic Resistance Movement / Palestine Islamic Jihad
2. HVTs = High Value Targets
3. C3I = Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence
4. AP I, art. 51(5)(b) = Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977. Article 51 -- Protection of the civilian population
5. HoAP = Hostile Arab Palestinian

I did not mean to confuse you.

Most Respectfully,
R

I have heard of Hamas but not Islamic Resistance Movement/Palestine Islamic Jihad. You say they are all the same. Why complicate your posts by including all instead of the one that everyone is familiar with?
C31 was not mentioned in your post.
AP I, art. 51(5)(b) could be made simpler with a mention of the Geneva Conventions.
If HoAP means what you say then apart from informers in the pay of Israelis this would describe all Palestinians.

If the Israelis are murdering Hamas leaders then this is an illegal provocation likely to cause sme firecrackers into Israel which, in turn, gives the Israelis an excuse for full scale pulverizing defenseless Gaza civilian neighborhoods as a collective punishment and a message to other Arab neighbors. This is morally inexcusable.

 

[RoccoR]

Eloy,

I have to chuckle here.

I have heard of Hamas but not Islamic Resistance Movement/Palestine Islamic Jihad. You say they are all the same. Why complicate your posts by including all instead of the one that everyone is familiar with?

(COMMENT)

The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are to different organizations but concentrated in the same area, the Gaza Strip. Both HAMAS and the PIJ have assets in the West Bank, as do other High Value Targets. I'll try to make it more clear for you in the future. I just did not want to be accused of talking down to you.

C31 was not mentioned in your post.

(COMMENT)

I did mention C3I to you in the context that HAMAS, PIJ and other Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters have a portion dedicated to C3I. That makes Hostile C3I a type of HVT.

AP I, art. 51(5)(b) could be made simpler with a mention of the Geneva Conventions.

(COMMENT)

The Article 51 of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (having to do with compelling Protected Persons into labor of service) is completely different from the Article 51 of Additional Protocol I (having to do with a broad range of protections). They are simply not the same thing. And the are pro-Arab Palestinians who would capitalize on the opportunity to criticize me for the error.

If HoAP means what you say then apart from informers in the pay of Israelis this would describe all Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

In the set of "All Arab Palestinians" there are at least two subsets:

• Those that are not hostile.
• Those that are hostile.
​

I make a distinction between the two subsets and give the benefit of the doubt to some Arab Palestinians that they are reasonable and not hostile.

If the Israelis are murdering Hamas leaders then this is an illegal provocation likely to cause sme firecrackers into Israel which, in turn, gives the Israelis an excuse for full scale pulverizing defenseless Gaza civilian neighborhoods as a collective punishment and a message to other Arab neighbors. This is morally inexcusable.

(COMMENT)

Yes, well, of the defendants that were prosecuted and convicted of Major Crimes insist they are not guilty of the felonious activity. ('C'est la vie')

Both the HAMAS and the PIJ, as well as several other Palestinian Organizations, are designated terrorist organizations. The leadership of any organizations that open hostilities with Israel by means that, in any other nation, would be considered acts of war, are HVTs. Additionally, when these organizations operate inside the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including Jerusalem) :

§ Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life and invoke fear and chaos in the public;​

• Appear to be intended
• 
  [*](i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
  [*](ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
  [*](iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping and murder, bombings, assaults and attacks on innocent civilians, hijackings and piracy, indiscriminate rocket fire, or activities solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, --- or conductiong espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power;​
• Engage in Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence that has an origin the transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

Any fugitive from justice for violations of the aforementioned, or any of the offenses elaborated in the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts. When these HVTs are leaders that are involved in open conflict, then Customary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and Rules apply; to include the ones previously cited. (See Posting #33 and #36, supra)

Any Day is a Good Day to Catch a Terrorist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Eloy,

I have to chuckle here.

I have heard of Hamas but not Islamic Resistance Movement/Palestine Islamic Jihad. You say they are all the same. Why complicate your posts by including all instead of the one that everyone is familiar with?

(COMMENT)

The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are to different organizations but concentrated in the same area, the Gaza Strip. Both HAMAS and the PIJ have assets in the West Bank, as do other High Value Targets. I'll try to make it more clear for you in the future. I just did not want to be accused of talking down to you.

C31 was not mentioned in your post.

(COMMENT)

I did mention C3I to you in the context that HAMAS, PIJ and other Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters have a portion dedicated to C3I. That makes Hostile C3I a type of HVT.

AP I, art. 51(5)(b) could be made simpler with a mention of the Geneva Conventions.

(COMMENT)

The Article 51 of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (having to do with compelling Protected Persons into labor of service) is completely different from the Article 51 of Additional Protocol I (having to do with a broad range of protections). They are simply not the same thing. And the are pro-Arab Palestinians who would capitalize on the opportunity to criticize me for the error.

If HoAP means what you say then apart from informers in the pay of Israelis this would describe all Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

In the set of "All Arab Palestinians" there are at least two subsets:

• Those that are not hostile.
• Those that are hostile.
​

I make a distinction between the two subsets and give the benefit of the doubt to some Arab Palestinians that they are reasonable and not hostile.

If the Israelis are murdering Hamas leaders then this is an illegal provocation likely to cause sme firecrackers into Israel which, in turn, gives the Israelis an excuse for full scale pulverizing defenseless Gaza civilian neighborhoods as a collective punishment and a message to other Arab neighbors. This is morally inexcusable.

(COMMENT)

Yes, well, of the defendants that were prosecuted and convicted of Major Crimes insist they are not guilty of the felonious activity. ('C'est la vie')

Both the HAMAS and the PIJ, as well as several other Palestinian Organizations, are designated terrorist organizations. The leadership of any organizations that open hostilities with Israel by means that, in any other nation, would be considered acts of war, are HVTs. Additionally, when these organizations operate inside the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including Jerusalem) :

§ Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life and invoke fear and chaos in the public;​

• Appear to be intended
• 
  [*](i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
  [*](ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
  [*](iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping and murder, bombings, assaults and attacks on innocent civilians, hijackings and piracy, indiscriminate rocket fire, or activities solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, --- or conductiong espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power;​
• Engage in Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence that has an origin the transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

Any fugitive from justice for violations of the aforementioned, or any of the offenses elaborated in the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts. When these HVTs are leaders that are involved in open conflict, then Customary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and Rules apply; to include the ones previously cited. (See Posting #33 and #36, supra)

Any Day is a Good Day to Catch a Terrorist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you mean like defending themselves from Israeli settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

 

[Hollie]

Eloy,

I have to chuckle here.

I have heard of Hamas but not Islamic Resistance Movement/Palestine Islamic Jihad. You say they are all the same. Why complicate your posts by including all instead of the one that everyone is familiar with?

(COMMENT)

The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are to different organizations but concentrated in the same area, the Gaza Strip. Both HAMAS and the PIJ have assets in the West Bank, as do other High Value Targets. I'll try to make it more clear for you in the future. I just did not want to be accused of talking down to you.

C31 was not mentioned in your post.

(COMMENT)

I did mention C3I to you in the context that HAMAS, PIJ and other Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters have a portion dedicated to C3I. That makes Hostile C3I a type of HVT.

AP I, art. 51(5)(b) could be made simpler with a mention of the Geneva Conventions.

(COMMENT)

The Article 51 of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (having to do with compelling Protected Persons into labor of service) is completely different from the Article 51 of Additional Protocol I (having to do with a broad range of protections). They are simply not the same thing. And the are pro-Arab Palestinians who would capitalize on the opportunity to criticize me for the error.

If HoAP means what you say then apart from informers in the pay of Israelis this would describe all Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

In the set of "All Arab Palestinians" there are at least two subsets:

• Those that are not hostile.
• Those that are hostile.
​

I make a distinction between the two subsets and give the benefit of the doubt to some Arab Palestinians that they are reasonable and not hostile.

If the Israelis are murdering Hamas leaders then this is an illegal provocation likely to cause sme firecrackers into Israel which, in turn, gives the Israelis an excuse for full scale pulverizing defenseless Gaza civilian neighborhoods as a collective punishment and a message to other Arab neighbors. This is morally inexcusable.

(COMMENT)

Yes, well, of the defendants that were prosecuted and convicted of Major Crimes insist they are not guilty of the felonious activity. ('C'est la vie')

Both the HAMAS and the PIJ, as well as several other Palestinian Organizations, are designated terrorist organizations. The leadership of any organizations that open hostilities with Israel by means that, in any other nation, would be considered acts of war, are HVTs. Additionally, when these organizations operate inside the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including Jerusalem) :

§ Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life and invoke fear and chaos in the public;​

• Appear to be intended
• 
  [*](i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
  [*](ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
  [*](iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping and murder, bombings, assaults and attacks on innocent civilians, hijackings and piracy, indiscriminate rocket fire, or activities solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, --- or conductiong espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power;​
• Engage in Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence that has an origin the transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

Any fugitive from justice for violations of the aforementioned, or any of the offenses elaborated in the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts. When these HVTs are leaders that are involved in open conflict, then Customary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and Rules apply; to include the ones previously cited. (See Posting #33 and #36, supra)

Any Day is a Good Day to Catch a Terrorist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you mean like defending themselves from Israeli settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

Your silly slogans and clichés are tired and worn.

 

[Shusha]

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

If, as you argue, settler colonialism is aggression and if, as you argue, people are morally and legally correct in 'resisting' settler colonialism, then the Jewish people are legally and morally correct in resisting the aggression of settler colonists and returning the land to Jewish sovereignty.

 

[Eloy]

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

If, as you argue, settler colonialism is aggression and if, as you argue, people are morally and legally correct in 'resisting' settler colonialism, then the Jewish people are legally and morally correct in resisting the aggression of settler colonists and returning the land to Jewish sovereignty.

This type of talk is reason enough not to waste time in negotiating with Israelis. Their first principles are too mixed-up.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Eloy,

I have to chuckle here.

I have heard of Hamas but not Islamic Resistance Movement/Palestine Islamic Jihad. You say they are all the same. Why complicate your posts by including all instead of the one that everyone is familiar with?

(COMMENT)

The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) are to different organizations but concentrated in the same area, the Gaza Strip. Both HAMAS and the PIJ have assets in the West Bank, as do other High Value Targets. I'll try to make it more clear for you in the future. I just did not want to be accused of talking down to you.

C31 was not mentioned in your post.

(COMMENT)

I did mention C3I to you in the context that HAMAS, PIJ and other Jihadist, Deadly Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters have a portion dedicated to C3I. That makes Hostile C3I a type of HVT.

AP I, art. 51(5)(b) could be made simpler with a mention of the Geneva Conventions.

(COMMENT)

The Article 51 of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention (having to do with compelling Protected Persons into labor of service) is completely different from the Article 51 of Additional Protocol I (having to do with a broad range of protections). They are simply not the same thing. And the are pro-Arab Palestinians who would capitalize on the opportunity to criticize me for the error.

If HoAP means what you say then apart from informers in the pay of Israelis this would describe all Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

In the set of "All Arab Palestinians" there are at least two subsets:

• Those that are not hostile.
• Those that are hostile.
​

I make a distinction between the two subsets and give the benefit of the doubt to some Arab Palestinians that they are reasonable and not hostile.

If the Israelis are murdering Hamas leaders then this is an illegal provocation likely to cause sme firecrackers into Israel which, in turn, gives the Israelis an excuse for full scale pulverizing defenseless Gaza civilian neighborhoods as a collective punishment and a message to other Arab neighbors. This is morally inexcusable.

(COMMENT)

Yes, well, of the defendants that were prosecuted and convicted of Major Crimes insist they are not guilty of the felonious activity. ('C'est la vie')

Both the HAMAS and the PIJ, as well as several other Palestinian Organizations, are designated terrorist organizations. The leadership of any organizations that open hostilities with Israel by means that, in any other nation, would be considered acts of war, are HVTs. Additionally, when these organizations operate inside the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including Jerusalem) :

§ Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life and invoke fear and chaos in the public;​

• Appear to be intended
• 
  [*](i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
  [*](ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
  [*](iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping and murder, bombings, assaults and attacks on innocent civilians, hijackings and piracy, indiscriminate rocket fire, or activities solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, --- or conductiong espionage, or serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power;​
• Engage in Jihadism, Deadly Fedayeen Action, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence that has an origin the transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.

Any fugitive from justice for violations of the aforementioned, or any of the offenses elaborated in the 19 international legal instruments to prevent terrorist acts. When these HVTs are leaders that are involved in open conflict, then Customary International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and Rules apply; to include the ones previously cited. (See Posting #33 and #36, supra)

Any Day is a Good Day to Catch a Terrorist.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you mean like defending themselves from Israeli settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

Well then, set the example and leave America. Go back to Scandinavia yourself.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

As usual, you don't specify the particulars of the "when" and "where."

Do you mean like defending themselves from Israeli settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

(COMMENT)

• Who was the sovereignty that was defending?
• What territory was under the colonial settlement?
• What time frame was it?
• Which colonial power was involved?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

1. In 1922, 95% of the inhabitants of Palestine were native Muslims and Christians. Pursuant to Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations the independence of Palestine was provisionally recognized. The native people were thus defending their sovereignty.

2. The territory that was under colonial development was Palestine.

3. The British colonization project was started in 1921.

4. The colonial power was Britain.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

As usual, you don't specify the particulars of the "when" and "where."

Do you mean like defending themselves from Israeli settler colonialism.

Settler colonialism is the original aggression.

(COMMENT)

• Who was the sovereignty that was defending?
• What territory was under the colonial settlement?
• What time frame was it?
• Which colonial power was involved?

Most Respectfully,
R

Gee, Rocko, you usually try to convince everyone that you are an intelligent man. Now you are acting stupid.

What gives?

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

This sound right, it you make some "BIG" assumptions.

1. In 1922, 95% of the inhabitants of Palestine were native Muslims and Christians. Pursuant to Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations the independence of Palestine was provisionally recognized. The native people were thus defending their sovereignty.

(COMMENT)

The Covenant says "Certain communities" ... ... "their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized."

• The Covenant does not specifically say which "communities." We just assume the Allied Powers in the Covenant of 1919 included "Palestine" (within such boundaries as may be fixed by them) as a provisional candidate.
• In 1919, when the Covenant was written, the was no political subdivision called Palestine. The Political identity as a legal entity was created by the Allied Powers.
• Even in 1922, the implementing documents were:

08/14/1922 C.639.M.378.1922.VI Mandate for Palestine - Mandatory order

08/10/1922 C.639.M.378.1922.VI - The Palestine Order in LoN Council - Mandatory order

What the ACTUAL ORDER said - no interpretation was:

And whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

It does not mention an entity creation dedicated to the Arab of Palestine; the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies.
​

2. The territory that was under colonial development was Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Two important points need to be made, relative to the "development" of the Territory under Mandate in the 1920s.

Paragraph 22, UK Political History of the Administration of Palestine (Lord Alexander Cadogan to UN Secretary General Trygve Lie)

22. Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that
accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
​

The lack of cooperation in the development of the Territory was astonishing. However, the Jewish Community toke and entirely different perspective.

Reports on the Palestine Administration Year 1923, Published June 1924

Extract ... The Zionist Committee have special branches for maintaining agricultural settlement, commerce and industry. Indirectly, the Zionist Committee has co-operated in several constructive public works undertaken by the Government. Thus, it advanced the money to the Government for the cost of laying a metalled road to the villages of Rishon le Zion and Rehobot from the main Jaffa-Jerusalem road, which forms the first part of a highway to be built to Gaza. The Jewish Co-operative Labour Association, a body supported by the Zionist Organisation, competes for contracts for the construction of roads and other public works. Among the works carried out by it for the Government are the Tiberias-Semakh road, and other roads in Galilee, for a total price of about £E.150,000; the construction of a railway siding for the army at Sarafand, and of a branch line from Ras el Ain to the Jewish village of Petah Tikvah; the building of barracks at Jenin, and of a Government office at Ramleh. The total value of these Government and army contracts to the end of 1922 was nearly £E.200,000.

The Palestine Government is in touch with a number of organisations other than the Zionist Organisation, which have as their object to assist in the settlement of Jews in Palestine. In particular, the Palestine Economic Board, the Jewish Colonisation Association, and the Palestine Development Council constituted by Jews in the United States, the Alliance Israelite Universelle, whose Headquarters are in Paris, and the Joint Distribution Committee for the Relief of War Sufferers who maintain Jewish orphans in Palestine.
​

3. The British colonization project was started in 1921.

(COMMENT)

There was no "British Colonization Project." It is often difficult to prove a negative such as this. Clearly, there were segments of the Arab Palestinian community that adopted the view of "invasion."

And most certainly, (in the 1930s and 1940s) the Government of Palestine was very aware of the illegal immigration by Jews to Mandatory Palestine that was outside the parameters implied by the British White Paper of 1939.

But Jewish large scale immigration to the Holy Lands date back to a time well before the epic rescue Jews from the murder (looting for profit) and Catholic Inquisition. Admiral Kemal Reis arrived in Spain with the Ottoman Fleet (1492) with the Sultan's orders to evacuate Spanish Jews and bring them into the lands of the Ottoman Empire.

4. The colonial power was Britain.

(COMMENT)

While it is true that the British were considered a Colonial Power, the immigration into the territory was not British or minions under the British Empire. They were Jews.

REPORT ON PALESTINE ADMINISTRATION, 1922.

Extract ..... In July, 1922, His Majesty's Government published a White Paper* (Cmd. 1700) which embodied a statement of its policy in relation to Palestine. The statement, while reiterating the purpose of His Majesty's Government enunciated in the Balfour Declaration relating to the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home, defined that purpose and the manner of its execution in terms which left no doubt of the determination of His Majesty's Government to preserve the rights and interests of the non-Jewish population.

Following a memorandum presented by His Majesty's Government in September to the League of Nations, a resolution was passed by the Council of the League to exclude Transjordan from the Articles of the Mandate which concern the Holy Places and the measures to be taken in concert with the Jewish Agency for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.
​

(EPILOG)

What happened then, remembering the Balfour Declaration (a 100 years old this year), led to the reality of today. By whatever methods, mechanism, workings, or magic ---- there exists an independent and sovereign entity called: Israel.

Even if this cascade series of events, over the last 100 years, were totally "illegal" (as the Arab Palestinians would have you believe) it does NOT matter. The State of Israel (the Jewish National Home) exists.

You cannot roll back the clock, replay the down, or wave off for another landing. You have to be willing to entertain the day.

Most Respectfully,
R

​

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was no "British Colonization Project." It is often difficult to prove a negative such as this. Clearly, there were segments of the Arab Palestinian community that adopted the view of "invasion."

Well duh, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

In particular, the Palestine Economic Board, the Jewish Colonisation Association, and the Palestine Development Council constituted by Jews in the United States,

'Nuff said!

 

[P F Tinmore]

While it is true that the British were considered a Colonial Power, the immigration into the territory was not British or minions under the British Empire. They were Jews.

It was Britain who imposed its own immigration policy on the Palestinians at the point of a gun in universal opposition by the Palestinians.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It makes no difference to me that you should villainize what amounts to be a modernized wagon train. Your intent is quite clear.

The intent was to develop a Jewish National Home.

There was no "British Colonization Project." It is often difficult to prove a negative such as this. Clearly, there were segments of the Arab Palestinian community that adopted the view of "invasion."

Well duh, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

In particular, the Palestine Economic Board, the Jewish Colonisation Association, and the Palestine Development Council constituted by Jews in the United States,

'Nuff said!

(COMMENT)

Yes I cut'n'pasted that just for you and montelatici.

The Jewish Colonization Association (JCA) was a cross between:

• Home Owners Association (HOA)
• A Credit Union for the HOA
• Regional Economic Development Program
​

Originally the JCA emerged out of necessity to facilitate the escape of Jews from East European and Russian oppression Russia and resettling them in agricultural colonies on lands purchased by the JCA; particularly in North America, and South America.

Recalling the huge influx of (Oddly enough) Arabs from the Middle East that were streaming into Central and Western Europe. They could not create programs such as these for the refugee and new immigrants

As tragedies shock Europe, a bigger refugee crisis looms in the Middle East
By Liz Sly August 29, 2015

AL-MINYA, Lebanon — While the world’s attention is fixed on the tens of thousands of Syrian refugees swarming into Europe, a potentially far more profound crisis is unfolding in the countries of the Middle East that have borne the brunt of the world’s failure to resolve the Syrian war.

Those reaching Europe represent a small percentage of the 4 million Syrians who have fled into Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq, making Syria the biggest single source of refugees in the world and the worst humanitarian emergency in more than four decades.

Europe’s Dilemma: Immigration and the Arab Spring
It’s time Europe stopped viewing immigrants as a threat to society.
By Anya Barry, May 25, 2012.

The problems of immigration are not limited to France. According to one chart compiled by Transatlantic Trends, a project of the German Marshall Fund, when citizens of several Western countries including France, Germany, Italy, the United States, Spain, and the United Kingdom were asked in 2011 whether they view immigration as more of a problem than an opportunity, 68 percent of the British citizens surveyed said that they consider immigration to be a growing problem, compared to 58 percent of Spaniards, 53 percent of Americans, 48 percent of Italians, 43 percent of Germans, and 46 percent of French survey participants. The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) has worked to collect statistics on hate crimes against Muslim residents of the EU. In 2009, FRA research suggested that 1 in 10 of all Muslims surveyed had been a victim of racially motivated assault, threat, or serious harassment at least once in the previous year. More distressing, many Muslims choose not to report crimes to the authorities, leaving these incidents underreported and severely underrepresented in the EU.
​

The JCA colonies, cooperative savings and loans societies, agricultural schools, vocational and technical schools, carpentry workshops, mechanized embroidery factories and weaving factories. Lessons that the modern day politician and diplomat needs to revisit.

It is not unusual for the emotion on the topic to misrepresent the intent and meaning of the historical objectives; putting the language in context. You can see that the JCA projects in other nations were quite successful, but did not lead to the establishment of JNHs in these other locations.

Although emigration from poverty stricken Europe was JCA's most important goal, the organization assisted communities throughout Europe by setting up agricultural colonies and schools, cooperative savings and loan societies, vocational and technical schools in Poland, Russia, Rumania. The JCA sponsored the establishment of colonies in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Palestine, Cyprus and Turkey. In the United States Baron de Hirsch established the Baron de Hirsch Fund and founded the agricultural school of Woodbine and cofounded the Jewish Agricultural Society. The JCA also distributed several thousand loans to immigrants. From 1965 JCA cooperated with the United HIAS Service contributing to the Special Rescue Program for transportation of immigrants from Eastern Europe and North Africa.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It makes no difference to me that you should villainize what amounts to be a modernized wagon train. Your intent is quite clear.

The intent was to develop a Jewish National Home.

There was no "British Colonization Project." It is often difficult to prove a negative such as this. Clearly, there were segments of the Arab Palestinian community that adopted the view of "invasion."

Well duh, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

In particular, the Palestine Economic Board, the Jewish Colonisation Association, and the Palestine Development Council constituted by Jews in the United States,

'Nuff said!

(COMMENT)

Yes I cut'n'pasted that just for you and montelatici.

The Jewish Colonization Association (JCA) was a cross between:

• Home Owners Association (HOA)
• A Credit Union for the HOA
• Regional Economic Development Program
​

Originally the JCA emerged out of necessity to facilitate the escape of Jews from East European and Russian oppression Russia and resettling them in agricultural colonies on lands purchased by the JCA; particularly in North America, and South America.

Recalling the huge influx of (Oddly enough) Arabs from the Middle East that were streaming into Central and Western Europe. They could not create programs such as these for the refugee and new immigrants

As tragedies shock Europe, a bigger refugee crisis looms in the Middle East
By Liz Sly August 29, 2015

AL-MINYA, Lebanon — While the world’s attention is fixed on the tens of thousands of Syrian refugees swarming into Europe, a potentially far more profound crisis is unfolding in the countries of the Middle East that have borne the brunt of the world’s failure to resolve the Syrian war.

Those reaching Europe represent a small percentage of the 4 million Syrians who have fled into Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq, making Syria the biggest single source of refugees in the world and the worst humanitarian emergency in more than four decades.

Europe’s Dilemma: Immigration and the Arab Spring
It’s time Europe stopped viewing immigrants as a threat to society.
By Anya Barry, May 25, 2012.

The problems of immigration are not limited to France. According to one chart compiled by Transatlantic Trends, a project of the German Marshall Fund, when citizens of several Western countries including France, Germany, Italy, the United States, Spain, and the United Kingdom were asked in 2011 whether they view immigration as more of a problem than an opportunity, 68 percent of the British citizens surveyed said that they consider immigration to be a growing problem, compared to 58 percent of Spaniards, 53 percent of Americans, 48 percent of Italians, 43 percent of Germans, and 46 percent of French survey participants. The European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) has worked to collect statistics on hate crimes against Muslim residents of the EU. In 2009, FRA research suggested that 1 in 10 of all Muslims surveyed had been a victim of racially motivated assault, threat, or serious harassment at least once in the previous year. More distressing, many Muslims choose not to report crimes to the authorities, leaving these incidents underreported and severely underrepresented in the EU.
​

The JCA colonies, cooperative savings and loans societies, agricultural schools, vocational and technical schools, carpentry workshops, mechanized embroidery factories and weaving factories. Lessons that the modern day politician and diplomat needs to revisit.

It is not unusual for the emotion on the topic to misrepresent the intent and meaning of the historical objectives; putting the language in context. You can see that the JCA projects in other nations were quite successful, but did not lead to the establishment of JNHs in these other locations.

Although emigration from poverty stricken Europe was JCA's most important goal, the organization assisted communities throughout Europe by setting up agricultural colonies and schools, cooperative savings and loan societies, vocational and technical schools in Poland, Russia, Rumania. The JCA sponsored the establishment of colonies in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Palestine, Cyprus and Turkey. In the United States Baron de Hirsch established the Baron de Hirsch Fund and founded the agricultural school of Woodbine and cofounded the Jewish Agricultural Society. The JCA also distributed several thousand loans to immigrants. From 1965 JCA cooperated with the United HIAS Service contributing to the Special Rescue Program for transportation of immigrants from Eastern Europe and North Africa.
​

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, so? That does not change my post.

The Jewish Colonization Association (JCA) was a cross between:

• Home Owners Association (HOA)
• A Credit Union for the HOA
• Regional Economic Development Program

Indeed, settler colonialism as I have said before.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is a "Whining Session." It is a panel of people that want to cry about the suffer they endured after they provoke a military conflict.

(COMMENT)

The discussion of proportionality had nothing to do with the intend and military advantage. Military engagements attempts to break the will of the opponent . It is not an unusual strategy. I've recently discussed this.

This is an appeal to the emotion.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Thanks, RoccoR . Saved me the time watching even the first five minutes of that.

 

[theliq]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Even your speaker (Eve Bartlett) understands that you are just attempting to justify continued violence with Israel by claiming that they cannot see the border between Israel and Gaza.

WHY do the Palestinians think they are under siege?

Israel is defending its settler colonial project.

(COMMENT)

No matter what you might think of the acquisition process, the REALITY is that the Gaza Strip is what it is.

The after that you don't recognize the reality of a real-world situation is (I don't know what) ...

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco......Are you telling me now that Israel uses no Violence towards the Palestinians !!!!!!!!You have become a "Coal Fire Man" regrettably