Enemies of America

[Ringel05]

With all due respect, I read your post and understood what the post said. If you meant something different post that. No region in today's Germany or England antagonized Rome. Rome invaded. Period. No one in Poland antagonized Germany in the late 1930s. Germany invaded. Period. And so on through my examples in re war mongering major powers.

There was no need to bring up Alexander or Genghis Kahn, two major powers leaders whose primary motives were conquest, conquest and more conquest.

One wishes Junebug's reason for invading Iraq was conquest instead of showing his mama he could penetrate deeper and stay longer than daddy-o.

Uuuummmm....... Many in the Middle East see us as invaders, in many countries where we stayed after WWII some eventually viewed us as "occupiers", prior to that some country's citizens, obviously not all, like in the Philippines saw us as conquerors. Many in countries not friendly to us propagate the imperial capitalist myth to this day.
Since when was Poland a major world power? They may have had delusions of grandeur but they were never a world power. Russia didn't become a world power until after WWII though it was well known that ultimately, between Germany and the Soviet Union, one would invade the other, they were traditional enemies and the non-aggression treaty was nothing more than a move of convenience for both. Not all of Rome's territory's were originally derived from conquest, some started out as alliances.
Our antagonism towards England that lead up to the American Revolution was partially our fault, we started the French and Indian wars, the real first world war. It drained the English crown coffers and they felt we should share in the cost. We had been self sufficient for so long that it was met with complete resentment by many but not all.
I could go on for pages, quoting books, articles and spending hours finding links but I really don't feel like it.
Nuances, the nuances are the key.

No.

Nuances are not the key. Facts are the key.

The fact is that a majority of people around the globe aware the US invaded Iraq see the US as invaders. Possibly because the US did invade Iraq. That their governments were degenerate enough to join criminal American leadership doesn't change the facts.

Opposition to the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Easy to agree Poland wasn't a major power. Germany, the invading nation, was, which is dead on to your point. Rome invaded without provocation, dead on to your point. Japan attacked without provocation. And so on.

There was no justification at all for invading Iraq; to the contrary. Something the filthy little cocksucker's old man understood was that Hussein was a free lid on the Iran pressure cooker. There is no reasonable expectation halfwit America buys that; they still think Reagan was a conservative, for Christ's sake.

However, people who understand global power dynamics understand that the Boy Bush - the draft dodging chickenhawk cocksucker Pap Bush prevailed on friends to invest in and employ until he got the boy a government job in Tejas - fucked it up.

I looked and again I saw nothing in my post that claimed justification for anything. Simply a presentation of facts and presumptions (perspective) that are/have been used to validate the OPs premise while applying those same facts and perspectives to all major world powers throughout history.
Personally I could care less about your hatred for the Bushes like I could care less about the wing nuts hatred of Obama so try to stay on topic. Such is life.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

poor enemies ran out of gas

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So you can't name one either.

It's starting to look like no one can name an enemy of America that America didn't start on first yet you look a lot like you're going to attack North Korea, a nation that has NEVER attacked the United states and only shouts about you because you've built up thousands of troops on its border.

I did, progressives

I looked all over wiki but failed to find a country called, progressives.

I said progressives are the greatest threat they are more dangerous than any outside country.

 

[Indofred]

I did, progressives

I looked all over wiki but failed to find a country called, progressives.

I said progressives are the greatest threat they are more dangerous than any outside country.

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

 

[editec]

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

The state of affairs in the world mostly involves market and resource economics. THAT the root cause of most wars.

Oh there's always some political or religious nonsense attached to the narrative to convince clueless people they need to fight for their nation, but generally every war in modern times has as its basic cause some ECONOMIC consideration.

 

[Indofred]

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

The state of affairs in the world mostly involves market and resource economics. THAT the root cause of most wars.

Oh there's always some political or religious nonsense attached to the narrative to convince clueless people they need to fight for their nation, but generally every war in modern times has as its basic cause some ECONOMIC consideration.

I would tend to agree.
Pre WWII, the American arms industry was at a low point but there has always been a need for arms since.
Of course, when enemies disappeared, new reasons to buy arms needed to be invented.
This involved killing millions but what's that when compared to keeping arms manufacturers in large houses, nice cars and making sure they can afford as many prostitutes as their tongues can handle?

They'll happily lie to get a war started and are covered by corrupt politicians who are paid off to shut up and make sure all the evidence is well buried.

This is mass murder on a monumental scale but no one ever gets the chop for it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Fred do you hate America?

 

[Ringel05]

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

The state of affairs in the world mostly involves market and resource economics. THAT the root cause of most wars.

Oh there's always some political or religious nonsense attached to the narrative to convince clueless people they need to fight for their nation, but generally every war in modern times has as its basic cause some ECONOMIC consideration.

Not just modern times. If one studies the history of each expansion and, or war and boils it down to the root cause it's always economic (resource) driven.

 

[Indofred]

Fred do you hate America?

No.
Nor do I hate Americans, but your foreign policy stinks.

 

[High_Gravity]

Fred do you hate America?

No.
Nor do I hate Americans, but your foreign policy stinks.

Fair enough.

 

[Ringel05]

I looked all over wiki but failed to find a country called, progressives.

I said progressives are the greatest threat they are more dangerous than any outside country.

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

To some degree yes but you're assessment is to simplistic. There are too many variables to claim one nation created all it's enemies. This is not to say that said nation didn't have a hand in it but there are always two sides to every coin. Those who perceived us as enemies to their political system, culture, economic system, sphere of influence (whether we were or not) helped propagate the division. In most cases the blame can be equally shared.

 

[Indofred]

I said progressives are the greatest threat they are more dangerous than any outside country.

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

To some degree yes but you're assessment is to simplistic. There are too many variables to claim one nation created all it's enemies. This is not to say that said nation didn't have a hand in it but there are always two sides to every coin. Those who perceived us as enemies to their political system, culture, economic system, sphere of influence (whether we were or not) helped propagate the division. In most cases the blame can be equally shared.

That (My red bold) suggests America may be a victim of someone's perception but I argue it's always actual interference, not a perceived threat.
Given no one has managed to name an enemy that was not created by America, I believe I may well be correct.

 

[Ringel05]

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

To some degree yes but you're assessment is to simplistic. There are too many variables to claim one nation created all it's enemies. This is not to say that said nation didn't have a hand in it but there are always two sides to every coin. Those who perceived us as enemies to their political system, culture, economic system, sphere of influence (whether we were or not) helped propagate the division. In most cases the blame can be equally shared.

That (My red bold) suggests America may be a victim of someone's perception but I argue it's always actual interference, not a perceived threat.
Given no one has managed to name an enemy that was not created by America, I believe I may well be correct.

That's called cherry picking, taking out of context. You can believe that America is the only one at fault, the reality is all sides share in the fault to some degree or another and as you should know, perception is everything, thus most responsible for all sides views.
We can go into a historical dissertation on every aspect of this subject if you want but we'll probably be here, on this thread 24/7 for the next two months.
As for your cherry picking, interference from who's perspective? Radical Islam would see it as such but there are just as many in those regions who view radical Islam in the same light. What about their perspective? So far our major mistake of recent times was Iraq which gave radical Islam the propaganda tool to say, "see, we told you so. They want to destroy your way of life and destroy Islam", leading to some of the current views of America by other groups and some nations.
You need to do some historical research, not Wikipedia, real research and tell me why America became the enemy of China, the Soviet Union, N. Korea.

 

[editec]

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

To some degree yes but you're assessment is to simplistic. There are too many variables to claim one nation created all it's enemies. This is not to say that said nation didn't have a hand in it but there are always two sides to every coin. Those who perceived us as enemies to their political system, culture, economic system, sphere of influence (whether we were or not) helped propagate the division. In most cases the blame can be equally shared.

That (My red bold) suggests America may be a victim of someone's perception but I argue it's always actual interference, not a perceived threat.
Given no one has managed to name an enemy that was not created by America, I believe I may well be correct.

I basically AGREE with you but STILL I FIND YOUR POV ANNOYING.

Want to know why?

Because you focused this obvious truism ONLY ON AMERICA.

This sad fact is true for EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH.

 

[hortysir]

Fred do you hate America?

No.
Nor do I hate Americans, but your foreign policy stinks.

Clinton and Kerry as our most recent SoS

No wonder

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Split from another thread.

Can anyone name an enemy of America where America didn't create that enemy through interference in that country or regional interference?

I've tried and I can't find one.

Anyone game to try?

Why don't you list all of America's enemies, and then we can discuss why they're enemies?

 

[freedombecki]

Split from another thread.

Can anyone name an enemy of America where America didn't create that enemy through interference in that country or regional interference?

I've tried and I can't find one.

Anyone game to try?

We decided to stay a neutral nation in WWII. We traded with both sides of the conflict. The Axis powers took that as interference since it supplied their "enemies," so they went after us for doing what other neutral countries did.

The last straw was them killing thousands of Americans at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, four years after Japan invaded China, and a year and a half after Hitler started his military occupancy of countries in Europe.

As a commander in Japan was said to note, it was a little unwise to wake the sleeping giant.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I looked all over wiki but failed to find a country called, progressives.

I said progressives are the greatest threat they are more dangerous than any outside country.

But I asked for COUNTRIES, not political ideals within America.

No one has managed to name one, thus, I believe I'm correct and America has created all its modern enemies.

You can do more damage to a country from within than an outside source could ever do.

I say again Progressives are the greatest threat.

 

[Indofred]

To some degree yes but you're assessment is to simplistic. There are too many variables to claim one nation created all it's enemies. This is not to say that said nation didn't have a hand in it but there are always two sides to every coin. Those who perceived us as enemies to their political system, culture, economic system, sphere of influence (whether we were or not) helped propagate the division. In most cases the blame can be equally shared.

That (My red bold) suggests America may be a victim of someone's perception but I argue it's always actual interference, not a perceived threat.
Given no one has managed to name an enemy that was not created by America, I believe I may well be correct.

I basically AGREE with you but STILL I FIND YOUR POV ANNOYING.

Want to know why?

Because you focused this obvious truism ONLY ON AMERICA.

This sad fact is true for EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH.

The thread is about America as that country has more enemies than any other.
Basically, I was thinking about the Korean conflict but this expanded into looking at all enemies of America.
In no case could I find an enemy that America didn't make for itself.

It may well be true of other countries but, in my opinion, American foreign policy has started more wars and killed more people than any other country in history, including colonial era England.

 

[Indofred]

That's called cherry picking, taking out of context. You can believe that America is the only one at fault, the reality is all sides share in the fault to some degree or another and as you should know, perception is everything, thus most responsible for all sides views.
We can go into a historical dissertation on every aspect of this subject if you want but we'll probably be here, on this thread 24/7 for the next two months.
As for your cherry picking, interference from who's perspective? Radical Islam would see it as such but there are just as many in those regions who view radical Islam in the same light. What about their perspective? So far our major mistake of recent times was Iraq which gave radical Islam the propaganda tool to say, "see, we told you so. They want to destroy your way of life and destroy Islam", leading to some of the current views of America by other groups and some nations.
You need to do some historical research, not Wikipedia, real research and tell me why America became the enemy of China, the Soviet Union, N. Korea.

Cherry picking? No, just reacting to an inaccurate statement.
You suggested, perception may be a cause of some enemies but I argue, actual interference is the cause.
Of course, I can't argue against your point regarding Muslim extremists using attacks on Iraq/maybe Iran as propaganda but that's a minority in several countries, not a government of one that goes on to murder by the thousand as a result of its claims.
America has attacked a whole host of countries, not just Muslim countries so Islam is a moot point in the context of the thread; more so when you realise the thread stemmed from a thread about North Korea, not a Muslim majority country last time I looked.

The Soviet union is a dead duck now so a bit academic but China is alive and well.
We've seen a lot of anti Chinese (probably fake) news stories of late.
The South Korean computer hacks from a Chinese IP comes to mind but what actual military threat is China to the US?
You guys moaned when they commissioned an aircraft carrier, complaining of globalisation and possible attacks outside Chinese waters but exactly how many flattops does America have?
Back to N Korea. You guys supported the South Korean corrupt dictator and, more up to date, you guys started the new escalation by sending thousands of troops to the region.
Of course NK went ballistic, you landed a potential invasion force on the peninsular.

If Iran landed 40,000 troops with a mass of military hardware in Mexico at the invitation of the Mexican government, would you be happy?

Its not perception, its physical interference.