Electric Cars Great....Indoors

[RGR]

In my case, I would plug into the charging station. But let us say my employer doesn't have the free charging available, I would make it 10 miles towards the house and then my gas motor comes on. I find this very distressing, so I concentrate heavily on not letting this happen.

What part of "all-electic" escaped your attention?

My EV also carries a gasoline engine. If I had a pure EV, like a Leaf, I drive 30 miles to work, and then I drive 30 miles home, and charge it overnight, having more than enough range for a 60 mile roundtrip.

I however treat my Volt like an EV, and just HATE it when the engine comes on, considering it a failure of my proper usage of personal transport.

I haven't had any of the issues you mention about taxes, unions, or any of those other things. I also shop at Kohl's, in part because they provide charging stations as well. I like to reward those who hand out free fuel to their customers, it is a great fringe benefit, and I like to support forward thinking companies.

Patience on the tax issues. Especially if Obama's minions are monitoring this forum. They never met an opportunity to tax or penalize that they didn't simply adore.

Oh, some are already trying to figure out what happens when less gasoline taxes are collected. First they encourage using less liquid fuels, and then they are forced to punish those who take their advice. Stupid politicians of any stripe tend to fall for this one.

State gas tax could be replaced by mileage tax

As to Khol's, good for them! A benefit to shoppers like that is not taxable. Well, unless you consider the small percentage it adds to the cost of every item every shopper pays in the store. Then it would be the right of every non-free electricity shopper to demand a discount or to leave stuff in the cart and shop elsewhere.

Not that many will but it wouldn't take a whole lot to catch management's attention.

Could be. But until then, as people, companies and employers continue to offer free fuel for their employee's/customers, sign me up!!

 

[Politico]

Oh, nooooo!

Not more bad news for our Warmist pals!


Yup.....AAA tested electric cars and found they perform poorly in cold weather......

....and in hot weather.



1. "The average electric vehicle battery range for each full charge in AAA's test was 105 miles at 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

2. That dropped 57% to 43 miles when the temperature was held steady at 20 degrees.

3. Warm temperatures were not as stressful but still delivered a lower average of 69 miles per full charge at 95 degrees, AAA said.



4. The AAA Automotive Research Center in Southern California found that the average range of an electric car dropped 57% in very cold weather – at 20 degrees Fahrenheit – and by 33% in extreme heat, a temperature of 95 degrees.

5. .....we did not expect the degradation we saw," said Greg Brannon, AAA's director of automotive engineering.....a 2013 Nissan Leaf, a 2012 Mitsubishi iMIEV and a 2014 Ford Focus Electric Vehicle....

a. ...The three vehicles chosen were selected because they're the most widely available electric cars in the USA,...




6. ....two of the vehicles, ... were equipped with dedicated management of the battery temperature.
"We were expecting that difference would yield differences in the optimal range of the vehicles in extreme temperatures," he said. "It did not."


7. Among AAA's recommendations: storing the electric car in a garage; monitoring recharge times in colder weather; preheating or cooling the car while it's plugged in to reduce battery drain, and using electric seat heaters to keep warm."
AAA: Range of electric cars cut in cold, hot weather





So.....as long as the temperature is 75 degrees.....you're fine.

Only driving indoors is the answer......




Or......hope for global warming.

Oh nooo!!! You think no one knew this before today...........

 

[HenryBHough]

Could be. But until then, as people, companies and employers continue to offer free fuel for their employee's/customers, sign me up!!

Well of course! Now remember, with that sort of thinking and a little ingenuity you can also get an Obamaphone, food stamps and even completely free food at your neighborhood food bank.

Liberals - always on the take. A birthright?

 

[Old Rocks]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Critical thinkers don't. What we root for is the most efficient, cheapest form of energy possible so that the poor can afford it. No "renewable" energy source has been able to do that. I USE solar and water power for some of my energy needs. We were off the grid when I first built this house and that's where solar does best OFF GRID.

What I despise is giving huge quantities of public money to friends of politicians to pad their wallets while pushing an inferior product on the public. I hate the fact that oil is used to run cars, I really do.. it can be used for so many better purposes. But there has been no meaningful advancement in decades in alternate powered vehicles.

I love the new Tesla, I don't like the fact that poor peoples tax money is being used to produce a vehicle that only rich people can afford to buy however. You're all about fairness yet you seem to think it's A-OK to take money from poor folks to benefit rich folks.

That just seems weird.

Crap. Once again you are a damnable liar, Walleyes. Tesla has paid back that loan in full. And it was a very wise loan. The premier EV in the world being produced right here in the good ol' US of A.

Tesla Pays Off Its $465 Million 'Loser' Loan - Businessweek

Elon Musk’s “Summer of Revenge Tour” continues. His electric-car company, Tesla Motors, just cut the government a $451.8 million check, which means that Tesla has paid off its entire Department of Energy loan plus interest. “Following this payment, Tesla (TSLA) will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government,” the company boasted (emphasis Tesla’s).

Of all his recent moves, this one must be especially sweet for Musk. Critics have long taken swipes at Tesla and its all-electric hippieness for relying on a federal handout. The most public of such barbs arrived from Mitt Romney during the presidential debates, when he described Tesla as a “loser” alongside Solyndra and Fisker Automotive. Even back then, it seemed a bit silly to lump Tesla—a company employing thousands of people at an American car factory—in with that group of green lollygaggers. And now that Tesla has paid its way off the government dole, Romney may have sealed his fate as that rare capitalist-cum-politician rooting against a successful American car company. (Although Sarah Palin has recently threatened to keep him company.)

The loan repayment follows a number of recent announcements from Musk, including Tesla’s first-ever profit, a higher-than-expected sales forecast, a $1 billion fund raising round, and its Model S sedan earning the highest auto test ratings ever from Consumer Reports. The company’s share price has soared over the past year, from $25.52 to an $87.24 close on Wednesday. The massive runup in Tesla’s shares is partly explained by an epic short squeeze, which is the other part of Musk’s Summer of Revenge

 

[Old Rocks]

Could be. But until then, as people, companies and employers continue to offer free fuel for their employee's/customers, sign me up!!

Well of course! Now remember, with that sort of thinking and a little ingenuity you can also get an Obamaphone, food stamps and even completely free food at your neighborhood food bank.

Liberals - always on the take. A birthright?

Dumb fuck, how about reality? Here it is;

The Obama Phone?

The president has no direct impact on the program, and one could hardly call these devices "Obama Phones," as the e-mail author does. This specific program, SafeLink, started under President George Bush, with grants from an independent company created under President Bill Clinton, which was a legacy of an act passed under President Franklin Roosevelt, which was influenced by an agreement reached between telecommunications companies and the administration of President Woodrow Wilson.

 

[HenryBHough]

Face it, foul mouth.

There is no such thing as "ACA" - there is only Obamacare.

The free phones are Obamaphones. I don't care who started the seeds; it's who spread the fertilizer and watered them with money stolen from honest taxpayers.

The tax on every grandmother and grandfather's pacemaker is Obamatax.

You libs are takers.

Once you acknowledge those realities there is some hope that a few of you might correct that personal character flaw but chances diminish with each such of the government teat.

Suck on!

 

[Old Rocks]

When I was a boy, 70,000 miles on an auto engine before a rebuild was needed was a good figure. Today, 200,000 + is the norm, some going well beyond that with careful maintenance. Do you loons really think that by 2014, the range on the batteries of even the cheap EV's will only be 50 to 70 miles? I think that the range will likely be closer to 300 to 400 miles. And that the vehicles will be less costly than todays ICE vehicles.

As for taxes for the roads, well, we will either have to take that directly out of general funds, or find a way of tracking the individual cars mileage. I would prefer the general fund, because the other way has the government tracking an individuals use of his vehicle.

 

[Old Rocks]

Face it, foul mouth.

There is no such thing as "ACA" - there is only Obamacare.

The free phones are Obamaphones. I don't care who started the seeds; it's who spread the fertilizer and watered them with money stolen from honest taxpayers.

The tax on every grandmother and grandfather's pacemaker is Obamatax.

You libs are takers.

Once you acknowledge those realities there is some hope that a few of you might correct that personal character flaw but chances diminish with each such of the government teat.

Suck on!

LOL. So that is why we in the blue states have to support you fellows in the red states. Why is it that the red states also rank last in education as well as income? Could it be that "Conservatives" like you are a bunch of dumb asses? Get out of your single wide, clear the beer cans off of the path, and find a job. This ol' Lib is tired of supporting your lazy ass.

 

[westwall]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Critical thinkers don't. What we root for is the most efficient, cheapest form of energy possible so that the poor can afford it. No "renewable" energy source has been able to do that. I USE solar and water power for some of my energy needs. We were off the grid when I first built this house and that's where solar does best OFF GRID.

What I despise is giving huge quantities of public money to friends of politicians to pad their wallets while pushing an inferior product on the public. I hate the fact that oil is used to run cars, I really do.. it can be used for so many better purposes. But there has been no meaningful advancement in decades in alternate powered vehicles.

I love the new Tesla, I don't like the fact that poor peoples tax money is being used to produce a vehicle that only rich people can afford to buy however. You're all about fairness yet you seem to think it's A-OK to take money from poor folks to benefit rich folks.

That just seems weird.

Crap. Once again you are a damnable liar, Walleyes. Tesla has paid back that loan in full. And it was a very wise loan. The premier EV in the world being produced right here in the good ol' US of A.

Tesla Pays Off Its $465 Million 'Loser' Loan - Businessweek

Elon Musk’s “Summer of Revenge Tour” continues. His electric-car company, Tesla Motors, just cut the government a $451.8 million check, which means that Tesla has paid off its entire Department of Energy loan plus interest. “Following this payment, Tesla (TSLA) will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government,” the company boasted (emphasis Tesla’s).

Of all his recent moves, this one must be especially sweet for Musk. Critics have long taken swipes at Tesla and its all-electric hippieness for relying on a federal handout. The most public of such barbs arrived from Mitt Romney during the presidential debates, when he described Tesla as a “loser” alongside Solyndra and Fisker Automotive. Even back then, it seemed a bit silly to lump Tesla—a company employing thousands of people at an American car factory—in with that group of green lollygaggers. And now that Tesla has paid its way off the government dole, Romney may have sealed his fate as that rare capitalist-cum-politician rooting against a successful American car company. (Although Sarah Palin has recently threatened to keep him company.)

The loan repayment follows a number of recent announcements from Musk, including Tesla’s first-ever profit, a higher-than-expected sales forecast, a $1 billion fund raising round, and its Model S sedan earning the highest auto test ratings ever from Consumer Reports. The company’s share price has soared over the past year, from $25.52 to an $87.24 close on Wednesday. The massive runup in Tesla’s shares is partly explained by an epic short squeeze, which is the other part of Musk’s Summer of Revenge

Bullshit, you contemptible liar.


Did Tesla really pay back their loan? NOT ACTUALLY.. Taxpayers are STILL paying for it[/B



Did Tesla really pay back their loan? NOT ACTUALLY.. Taxpayers are STILL paying for it | SOMO News: Bipartisan Corruption Snark

 

[westwall]

When I was a boy, 70,000 miles on an auto engine before a rebuild was needed was a good figure. Today, 200,000 + is the norm, some going well beyond that with careful maintenance. Do you loons really think that by 2014, the range on the batteries of even the cheap EV's will only be 50 to 70 miles? I think that the range will likely be closer to 300 to 400 miles. And that the vehicles will be less costly than todays ICE vehicles.

As for taxes for the roads, well, we will either have to take that directly out of general funds, or find a way of tracking the individual cars mileage. I would prefer the general fund, because the other way has the government tracking an individuals use of his vehicle.

You're full of crap as usual. The engines of the 40's and 50's were good for at least 150,000 before they needed major work. The 60's saw them last up to 250,000 with proper maintenance.

I had a slant 6 235 in a dodge pickup truck that lasted for 440,000 miles. In fact the truck fell apart before the engine did. It was my primary work truck and I had well over 200,000 miles on dirt roads and pure off road travel in that thing.

The only thing that I ever had to have major work on was the transmission and the dif. And water pumps, I went through about 6 of those IIRC. When I finally junked it, the number 2 cylinder was at about 130 pounds of compression, the rest were at 140 or slightly above.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Because it's technology BEING FORCED to market... Sub-optimal engineering solutions.
That's why every major Korean and many Japanese car companies are shifting R&D to fuel cell vehicles. No range limitations, no charging time issues, no extra demand on the electrical grid. No HUGE weight penalties, no HUGE toxic waste stream and on the positive side, a PERFECT opportunity to use those flaky renewables like wind and solar to make hydrogen as a stored fuel source.

Some dam thing happened forcing the light bulb mandate prematurely.. Folks got squeezed into sub-optimal CFL solutions. A technology that didn't need development or investment if the STATISTS had waited another 3 or 4 years for LED bulbs..

 

[PoliticalChic]

Drill baby drill

We don't need no lectric cars

"Bakken oil fields mark billionth barrel of oil
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) -- Oil drillers targeting the rich Bakken shale formation in western North Dakota and eastern Montana have produced 1 billion barrels of crude, data from the two states show.

Drillers first targeted the Bakken in Montana in 2000 and moved into North Dakota about five years later using advanced horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing techniques to recover oil trapped in a thin layer of dense rock nearly two miles beneath the surface.

North Dakota has generated 852 million barrels of Bakken crude, and Montana has produced about 151 million barrels through the first quarter of 2014, data show.

The U.S. Geological Survey has called the Bakken the largest continuous oil accumulation it had ever assessed. The agency, which bases its data largely on information from oil company and state drilling records, said up to 7.4 billion barrels of oil could be recovered from the Bakken and the underlying Three Forks using current technology."
Bakken oil fields mark billionth barrel of oil

 

[rightwinger]

Drill baby drill

We don't need no lectric cars

"Bakken oil fields mark billionth barrel of oil
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) -- Oil drillers targeting the rich Bakken shale formation in western North Dakota and eastern Montana have produced 1 billion barrels of crude, data from the two states show.

Drillers first targeted the Bakken in Montana in 2000 and moved into North Dakota about five years later using advanced horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing techniques to recover oil trapped in a thin layer of dense rock nearly two miles beneath the surface.

North Dakota has generated 852 million barrels of Bakken crude, and Montana has produced about 151 million barrels through the first quarter of 2014, data show.

The U.S. Geological Survey has called the Bakken the largest continuous oil accumulation it had ever assessed. The agency, which bases its data largely on information from oil company and state drilling records, said up to 7.4 billion barrels of oil could be recovered from the Bakken and the underlying Three Forks using current technology."
Bakken oil fields mark billionth barrel of oil

Drill'n oil gives Dick Cheney a hard on

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Pointing out realistic problems is not the same a "rooting for failure". I always asked how is performance of an electric car when running the heat or the AC but no one can answer that question not even a dealer. We should mandate those performance stats on the sticker

Shouldn't we?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Pointing out realistic problems is not the same a "rooting for failure". I always asked how is performance of an electric car when running the heat or the AC but no one can answer that question not even a dealer. We should mandate those performance stats on the sticker

Shouldn't we?

Well....the AAA answered it.....

The OP pretty well sums it up.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Pointing out realistic problems is not the same a "rooting for failure". I always asked how is performance of an electric car when running the heat or the AC but no one can answer that question not even a dealer. We should mandate those performance stats on the sticker

Shouldn't we?

Well....the AAA answered it.....

The OP pretty well sums it up.

Yup and funny that the partisan hacks that say they love science and stats and criticize members of the other party for being "anti-science" call using science and stats "rooting for failure"

 

[Old Rocks]

So an individual buys an all-electric car with a 40-mile (warm weather) range and commutes 30 miles to work. Usually he/she/it will get there. Probably almost always. But how will said "person" get home?

Oh wait, the employer, being a greenie, will provide plug-ins for employees with electric buggies. Free!

Next the union (being a greenie it would be a union shop, wouldn't it?) will demand that employees not using the free plug-ins get a cash payment in the interest of equality.

Then the IRS steps in when the cash-compensated employees report their income and lands with both feet on the ones with the free electricity because it's income. The employer, unless he/she/it (just for PC compliance do I use that) has a damn good accountant the benefit was not assigned a cash value and reported as income.

All the freeloading employees get audited. The employer gets audited. Some of them get to pay fines though probably none get jail time unless they back-talk to the IRS goon squad.

Who wins?

Why the whistle-blowing employee who properly declared and paid tax on the "equality" cash payment! A percentage of all that's collected from those environmentally friendly tax-dodging others.

Good for him! Or Her! Or It.

Damn. Do you never tire of showing off your ignorance? Most of the EV's get 60 to 80 miles per charge. The plugins get 13 to 40. And the premier EV, gets nearly 300 per charge, and is going to bring out another battery next year that will extend that to 400.

Plus, when you have an EV or a plug in hybrid, the payback time on a solar installation is significantly shortened. But that is what the 'Conservatives' on this board hate. The very idea of the consumer being independent of the big corperations is an anthema to them. We should all pay our daily tribute to the one percent.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Pointing out realistic problems is not the same a "rooting for failure". I always asked how is performance of an electric car when running the heat or the AC but no one can answer that question not even a dealer. We should mandate those performance stats on the sticker

Shouldn't we?

Looks like you didn't ask the right people. The numbers are out there for the researching.

Nissan Leaf: Details on the Electric Car - Driver's Seat - WSJ

And unlike a gas-engine, highway speeds don’t lead to better efficiency. The car uses virtually no energy from 0-20 mph, but starting around 20, energy is consumed on a steadily rising curve. Nissan has limited the speed to 90 mph, which will prevent people from draining the battery too quickly. Furthermore, the car charges itself by braking, so in heavy, stop-and-go driving, the car could end up with a higher charge than it had when it left the garage.

Last month, Nissan disclosed that the Leaf may get as little as 62 miles on a very cold day with the heat on, but also could get more than 130 in ideal conditions – a fairly wide variance. On the plus side, the electric car has several benefits over standard internal combustion engines. For one thing, because the battery packs are located in the center of the car and there is no heavy engine, it should take corners like a sports car. And speaking of sports car, the acceleration on the Leaf – or any electric car – is very responsive at any speed.

Nissan puts the car on sale in December and intends to sell 20,000 of the five-door hatchbacks in the U.S. in the first year and then vault up to 150,000 in sales in 2013. The company is retrofitting its plant in Smyrna, Tenn. to build the car

 

[RGR]

The U.S. Geological Survey has called the Bakken the largest continuous oil accumulation it had ever assessed. The agency, which bases its data largely on information from oil company and state drilling records, said up to 7.4 billion barrels of oil could be recovered from the Bakken and the underlying Three Forks using current technology."
Bakken oil fields mark billionth barrel of oil

Do you have a point? Does this in any way negate the point that my Volt has been happily puttering around, OUTSIDE, to and fro, hither, thither and yon, and NOT using any Bakken sourced oil?

Not that there is anything wrong with Bakken sourced oil mind you, but at the end of the day we have lots of it (oil in general), and besides Bakken oil being more expensive than the more traditional oil sources, it isn't very special.

 

[RGR]

Why do Conservatives root for the failure of any new technology that challenges the internal combustion engine?

Drill baby drill

Pointing out realistic problems is not the same a "rooting for failure". I always asked how is performance of an electric car when running the heat or the AC but no one can answer that question not even a dealer. We should mandate those performance stats on the sticker

Shouldn't we?

Probably. Being a fan of turning my Volt into an EV, I do my best to not run heat or A/C f I don't need them (lets face it, Colorado isn't usually all that cold or hot unless you live in the mountains themselves, and for a month at the height of summer if you are out on the prairie), and haven't tried a test where I run the heat full blast and then run the battery until it is dead. Or the A/C until the battery dies.

Turns out I bought the thing being a little worried about range anxiety, and I really should have gone full EV, I don't need the gas engine unless I really WANT the ICE on.