EGYPT: US about to make another Iraq style blunder in ME

[FA_Q2]

Us killing Iraqi Muslims.

al Qaeda killing around the world.

Who has killed more?

NOTE: How many times has Iraq attacked the US?

Depends on what you are referring to. In Iraq, Saddam killed more Iraqi's in the 10 years leading up to the war than the 10 years that we were at war with them. It is rather interesting that FEWER people were dying in open warfare than were dying in peacetime in that country.

UN Sanctions on Iraq

"Estimates of civilian deaths during from the sanctions range from 100,000 to over 1.5 million, most of them children."

There was no peace for Iraq between the end of Gulf War I and the US invasion in March of 2003.

wow, 100k or 15 times that number? Sounds like those estimates need some more refining or they are complete crap.

Either way, sanctions are not the direct cause of those deaths anyway. Did the rich go without? Were there problems with the resources for those in power? The answer is no. The deaths from those sanctions center mainly around the manipulations of that country's leaders - in other words were results of Saddam and how he distributed things in his own country. Or do you believe that we have a moral obligation to ensure bloodthirsty dictators that threaten our interests have access to our trade? The end result is that there is no obligation for anyone to trade with any particular country.

 

[High_Gravity]

Alot of the Iraqis that were killed after the US invaded Iraq in 2003 were killed at the hands of another Iraqi, but they still want to lay these deaths at the feet of the Americans.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Gee, I hate to break the news to you, but Democrats ARE those groups. There is no "secret band" of Democrats who "control" all the separate minority groups. Those minorities form coalitions who work together for the best interests of the country.

Don't you have an oil company to apologize to? Your leaders do.

oh so its OK for the Democratic party to use the "Democratic" Minorities to get their votes.....then....like the Democrats in Calif. telling the Gays how much they are for them....until the voting comes around for Gay rights,and all of a sudden in the voting booth a great number of the Dems are not for those rights.....you mean like that Dean?....yea they work together for the betterment of the Country.....as long as the "betterment" is something the Party wants......once again Dean....you prove how controlled YOU are...and its really amazing that you cant see that....but keep on posting....its fun watching an Automaton in action.....

 

[rdean]

How about addressing on a day to day basis, I will start with 9/11, how many children lost a father, mother, brother, grandmother, grandfather, uncle, aunt, cousin, or sister.

3,000 dead, if we include the children who lost someone as George asks the number becomes very difficult, I say at least 250,000 children lost someone on that day celebrated across the Middle East.

Next of course we can address those who are killed in by airplanes being blown up or crashed, cruise ships attacked, those killed in Israel, or the 200,000 Christians being ethnically cleansed from Kosovo. Lets not forget the death and destruction across Africa.

Yes how many must die, the sad fact is that when it comes to people like George, they read Chomsky and Zinn, the more Chomsky and Zinn lied and called the USA actions murder and war crimes the more people like George bought their books, the more books Chomsky and Zinn sold the more they realized it was profitable to Hate the USA. Hence a horrible cycle was born.

How about how much of the hate and lies printed by Chomsky and Zinn are beleived by the under-educated leaders of the Middle East or by the Moslem press thus fueling the hatred that leads to mass murder by suicide bombers.

George thus by purchasing the anti-american rhetoric of Zinn and Chomsky has increased the popularity as such that the Moslem leaders become of aware of the books, and seeing that many in the USA support Chomsky and Zinn, the Moslems of lesser education are unable to see the hate filled lies from the truth.

We are talking about the Middle East. I wasn't aware Kosovo or Africa were in the Middle East. Christians in Uganda want to execute gays and put relatives of gays in prison for up to seven years for not turning in their family members.

Then there is the Christian population of Iraq that has mysteriously declined by about a million since we invaded Iraq. Since many, including women, Christians and gays, are saying their lives were better under Saddam, how can we pretend to be "moral"?

Apparently, our hands are dirty too.

I see you got "Thanks" by Tinmore for this post, yes, I admit I am wrong, I got side tracked and threw in Africa, I kind of forget that Egypt is in the Middle East, I always thought, incorrectly that Egypt was in North Africa, that the Nile is in North Africa. I thought Rommel fought in North Africa when he was in Egypt.

Rdean and Tinmore, if you have no knowledge of where Egypt is how do you have any knowledge at all.

I can see why the Liberal's call Palin dumb, if one is dumb, the world must seem like an awful big, confusing place.

Egypt is in North Africa.

Most of it is in North Africa, the rest is geographically located in the Middle East.

Hint: What does the Suez Canal divide?

 

[mdn2000]

We are talking about the Middle East. I wasn't aware Kosovo or Africa were in the Middle East. Christians in Uganda want to execute gays and put relatives of gays in prison for up to seven years for not turning in their family members.

Then there is the Christian population of Iraq that has mysteriously declined by about a million since we invaded Iraq. Since many, including women, Christians and gays, are saying their lives were better under Saddam, how can we pretend to be "moral"?

Apparently, our hands are dirty too.

I see you got "Thanks" by Tinmore for this post, yes, I admit I am wrong, I got side tracked and threw in Africa, I kind of forget that Egypt is in the Middle East, I always thought, incorrectly that Egypt was in North Africa, that the Nile is in North Africa. I thought Rommel fought in North Africa when he was in Egypt.

Rdean and Tinmore, if you have no knowledge of where Egypt is how do you have any knowledge at all.

I can see why the Liberal's call Palin dumb, if one is dumb, the world must seem like an awful big, confusing place.

Egypt is in North Africa.

Geographically Egypt is in North Africa.

Politically it is in the middle of the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Politically Egypt signed a peace agreement with Israel in which Israel gave Egypt the Sinai.
That was the agreement Carter negotiated at Camp David, I see that as now a failure if the Moslem Brotherhood stages a coup in Egypt.

Politcally Egypt has been an allies with the Communists. How about that war between Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Politcally I would state Pan-Arab.

At least that is what I know off the top of my head.

 

[mdn2000]

rdean, that is not even a save,

rdean; We are talking about the Middle East. I wasn't aware Kosovo or Africa were in the Middle East

We are talking about Egypt, Egypt is in North Africa. We are speaking of Middle Eastern politics which Egypt is a part of, historically we can accurately state Egypt is or was Pan-Arab.

What I post is correct, yes or no, rdean.

 

[High_Gravity]

Egypt is more Middle Eastern Arab than African, trust me. Most people in Egypt don't give a fuck about Africans.

 

[High_Gravity]

Ask an Egyptian whether he is an African and he will quickly say no I am Arab.

 

[signelect]

We can't even run our own country much less one we really don't understand. Name just 1 of our successes. Can't do it can you.

 

[mdn2000]

We are talking about the Middle East. I wasn't aware Kosovo or Africa were in the Middle East. Christians in Uganda want to execute gays and put relatives of gays in prison for up to seven years for not turning in their family members.

Then there is the Christian population of Iraq that has mysteriously declined by about a million since we invaded Iraq. Since many, including women, Christians and gays, are saying their lives were better under Saddam, how can we pretend to be "moral"?

Apparently, our hands are dirty too.

I see you got "Thanks" by Tinmore for this post, yes, I admit I am wrong, I got side tracked and threw in Africa, I kind of forget that Egypt is in the Middle East, I always thought, incorrectly that Egypt was in North Africa, that the Nile is in North Africa. I thought Rommel fought in North Africa when he was in Egypt.

Rdean and Tinmore, if you have no knowledge of where Egypt is how do you have any knowledge at all.

I can see why the Liberal's call Palin dumb, if one is dumb, the world must seem like an awful big, confusing place.

Egypt is in North Africa.

Most of it is in North Africa, the rest is geographically located in the Middle East.

Hint: What does the Suez Canal divide?

First, you are mixing your ideas, Africa is a Continent, the Middle East is not, that is Asia, you are asking if the Suez Canal divides Asia from Africa, it does not.

The Sinai according to 96% of all Democrat Scientists, is considered to be in Africa, as the Sinai rests east of the plate boundary that seperates the Arabian Plate from the African Plate.

Geopolitically, Sinai and Egypt are still in Africa.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/East_Africa.html

 

[georgephillip]

Depends on what you are referring to. In Iraq, Saddam killed more Iraqi's in the 10 years leading up to the war than the 10 years that we were at war with them. It is rather interesting that FEWER people were dying in open warfare than were dying in peacetime in that country.

UN Sanctions on Iraq

"Estimates of civilian deaths during from the sanctions range from 100,000 to over 1.5 million, most of them children."

There was no peace for Iraq between the end of Gulf War I and the US invasion in March of 2003.

wow, 100k or 15 times that number? Sounds like those estimates need some more refining or they are complete crap.

Either way, sanctions are not the direct cause of those deaths anyway. Did the rich go without? Were there problems with the resources for those in power? The answer is no. The deaths from those sanctions center mainly around the manipulations of that country's leaders - in other words were results of Saddam and how he distributed things in his own country. Or do you believe that we have a moral obligation to ensure bloodthirsty dictators that threaten our interests have access to our trade? The end result is that there is no obligation for anyone to trade with any particular country.

Hans von Sponeck was UN humanitarian coordinator for Iraq from 1998 to 2000. Denis Halliday held the same post from 1997 to 1998. In December of 2001 they co-authored "Iraq: The Hostage Nation":

Referring to a report of the UN secretary-general in October 2001, "The death of some 5-6,000 (Iraqi) children a month is mostly due to contaminated water, lack of medicines and malnutrition. The US and UK governments' delayed clearance of equipment and materials is responsible for this tragedy, not Baghdad."

Saddam also wasn't responsible for bombing water treatment plants during Gulf War I. We were. As Henry Kissinger put it: "oil is much to important a commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs."

Any moral obligation the US has towards Iraq starts with admitting the diplomatic cover and military aid we provided to Saddam prior to his invasion of Kuwait, including the chemical precursors needed to manufacture poison gas and the helicopters he used to "gas his own people."

 

[bigrebnc1775]

deano when you die do you realize you will have a 50/50 chance the person who presides over your funeral might be a Republican. Talk about poetic justice.

 

[georgephillip]

Alot of the Iraqis that were killed after the US invaded Iraq in 2003 were killed at the hands of another Iraqi, but they still want to lay these deaths at the feet of the Americans.

Do you believe it's accurate to say one in four Iraqis who was alive and well in 2003 is now currently dead, displaced, maimed or in prison?

Who deserves the blame under international law?

 

[mdn2000]

Alot of the Iraqis that were killed after the US invaded Iraq in 2003 were killed at the hands of another Iraqi, but they still want to lay these deaths at the feet of the Americans.

Do you believe it's accurate to say one in four Iraqis who was alive and well in 2003 is now currently dead, displaced, maimed or in prison?

Who deserves the blame under international law?

Chomsky and Zinn

 

[rdean]

deano when you die do you realize you will have a 50/50 chance the person who presides over your funeral might be a Republican. Talk about poetic justice.

cremation

 

[bigrebnc1775]

deano when you die do you realize you will have a 50/50 chance the person who presides over your funeral might be a Republican. Talk about poetic justice.

cremation

Republican job.

When you hit retirement age if the government is controlled by republicans are you going to cancel your social security check? Would want to handle that republican mone now would you?>

 

[rdean]

I see you got "Thanks" by Tinmore for this post, yes, I admit I am wrong, I got side tracked and threw in Africa, I kind of forget that Egypt is in the Middle East, I always thought, incorrectly that Egypt was in North Africa, that the Nile is in North Africa. I thought Rommel fought in North Africa when he was in Egypt.

Rdean and Tinmore, if you have no knowledge of where Egypt is how do you have any knowledge at all.

I can see why the Liberal's call Palin dumb, if one is dumb, the world must seem like an awful big, confusing place.

Egypt is in North Africa.

Most of it is in North Africa, the rest is geographically located in the Middle East.

Hint: What does the Suez Canal divide?

First, you are mixing your ideas, Africa is a Continent, the Middle East is not, that is Asia, you are asking if the Suez Canal divides Asia from Africa, it does not.

The Sinai according to 96% of all Democrat Scientists, is considered to be in Africa, as the Sinai rests east of the plate boundary that seperates the Arabian Plate from the African Plate.

Geopolitically, Sinai and Egypt are still in Africa.

East Africa volcanoes [This Dynamic Earth, USGS]

When I look at this map:

Looks to me like most of Egypt is in North Eastern Africa and the rest borders Israel. I have never heard anyone say Israel is part of Africa.

Seems to be a pretty dumb thing to argue about. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[rdean]

I don't think they hate us for our freedom. I think they hate us for that 'Made In America' stamped on the weapons that have been used to keep them down.

It will be interesting to see how much power the Muslim Brotherhood has and if they will resort to violence to impose an Islamic Theocracy in the country.

The time to get us off foriegn oil was 30 years ago, but thanks to Raygun for taking the easy path with cheap foriegn oil (remember 8 dollars a barrel oil?), we basically are strung out over a barrel. It's going hurt alot more now than it would have then.

I imagine Israel is watching these developments very close indeed.

I would actually contend that it has nothing to do with freedom but PROSPERITY. We are hated because we are prosperous. For the Muslims it is also the fact that the majority of the population is Christian. Religion and envy, two very powerful motivators.

Bullshit. They hate us because our failed policies have caused them grief.

 

[mdn2000]

What "disturbing" percentage of Muslims become suicide bombers?

How many Christian children have Muslim bombs killed, maimed or orphaned?

How much money do rich Muslims make from Hellfire missiles sales?

How about addressing on a day to day basis, I will start with 9/11, how many children lost a father, mother, brother, grandmother, grandfather, uncle, aunt, cousin, or sister.

3,000 dead, if we include the children who lost someone as George asks the number becomes very difficult, I say at least 250,000 children lost someone on that day celebrated across the Middle East.

Next of course we can address those who are killed in by airplanes being blown up or crashed, cruise ships attacked, those killed in Israel, or the 200,000 Christians being ethnically cleansed from Kosovo. Lets not forget the death and destruction across Africa.

Yes how many must die, the sad fact is that when it comes to people like George, they read Chomsky and Zinn, the more Chomsky and Zinn lied and called the USA actions murder and war crimes the more people like George bought their books, the more books Chomsky and Zinn sold the more they realized it was profitable to Hate the USA. Hence a horrible cycle was born.

How about how much of the hate and lies printed by Chomsky and Zinn are beleived by the under-educated leaders of the Middle East or by the Moslem press thus fueling the hatred that leads to mass murder by suicide bombers.

George thus by purchasing the anti-american rhetoric of Zinn and Chomsky has increased the popularity as such that the Moslem leaders become of aware of the books, and seeing that many in the USA support Chomsky and Zinn, the Moslems of lesser education are unable to see the hate filled lies from the truth.

We are talking about the Middle East. I wasn't aware Kosovo or Africa were in the Middle East. Christians in Uganda want to execute gays and put relatives of gays in prison for up to seven years for not turning in their family members.

Then there is the Christian population of Iraq that has mysteriously declined by about a million since we invaded Iraq. Since many, including women, Christians and gays, are saying their lives were better under Saddam, how can we pretend to be "moral"?

Apparently, our hands are dirty too.

I am glad to see that you admitted it was dumb for you to argue about where Egypt is. We are speaking of Egypt and Middle Eastern politics which is not defined by the Suez Canal. I mention Kosovo, that is now on its way to being an Islamic state in a Historic Christian state, I also mention Africa, if we are speaking of the Middle East and Islamic politics we are speaking of countries outside the boundaries of the "The Middle East", which Egypt is outside that boundary, is part of Northern Africa, has a majority Islamic population and culture, as do other African countries that border Egypt as well as the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea.

LookLex / Atlas / Middle East & North Africa

 

[georgephillip]

"The sacred equation: Egyptian Dictatorship equals Secure Israel

The strategic relationship between Egypt and the U.S. was bipartisan.

"When President Barak Obama was asked by the BBC during his celebrated visit to Egypt in June 2009, whether he regarded President Mubarak as an authoritarian ruler, Obama answered with an emphatic 'No.'

"Then he spelled out the strategic value of Mubarak when he said, 'He has been a stalwart ally in many respects to the United States. He has sustained peace with Israel which is a very difficult thing to do in that region.'

"This perceived security for Israel was key in the West’s continued support of the Egyptian regime. When Vice President Joe Biden was asked to comment about the turmoil in Egypt by Jim Lehrer of PBS, he shamelessly declared on January 27, that Mubarak was not a dictator.

"Presenting the Israeli viewpoint, Biden said, 'Look, Mubarak has been an ally of ours in a number of things and he's been very responsible on-- relative to geopolitical interests in the region: Middle East peace efforts, the actions Egypt has taken relative to normalizing the relationship with Israel. I would not refer to him as a dictator.'

"On the same day, while Egypt’s security forces were killing, beating and gassing the Egyptian people by the thousands, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton offered this flimsy reaction: 'Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people.'"