Economics 101

This should be a mandatory class for every liberal in America. There is not one thing here in the video that could even be remotely disputed. Not one.

Milton Friedman Part I: Economics 101

Milton completely disregarded the cyclic nature of the economy: I have never seen a lecture in which he mentions it. He treats macro as microeconomy mulptiplied by N.

He does make some clever comments regarding the laws of supply and demand, but the sole notion that capitalism is intrinsincly stable is laughable.
It is "intrincsincly stable". You know why? Two very simple (and undeniable reasons):
  • In the true free market, awful companies go out of business. Great companies thrive.
  • Unlike socialism, the true free market is redundancy. There is no single point of failure. There is no "too big to fail". A big bank goes out of business and nobody rescues it. All of their business shifts to other banks while opening up opportunity for new banks.

It is unstable for many reasons:
- 1)changes in the level of private debt
- 2)asset bubbles
- 3)creative destruction
- 4)changes in household income to gdp ratio ( this is linked to 1)
 
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This should be a mandatory class for every liberal in America. There is not one thing here in the video that could even be remotely disputed. Not one.

Milton Friedman Part I: Economics 101

Milton completely disregarded the cyclic nature of the economy: I have never seen a lecture in which he mentions it. He treats macro as microeconomy mulptiplied by N.

He does make some clever comments regarding the laws of supply and demand, but the sole notion that capitalism is intrinsincly stable is laughable.
It is "intrincsincly stable". You know why? Two very simple (and undeniable reasons):
  • In the true free market, awful companies go out of business. Great companies thrive.
  • Unlike socialism, the true free market is redundancy. There is no single point of failure. There is no "too big to fail". A big bank goes out of business and nobody rescues it. All of their business shifts to other banks while opening up opportunity for new banks.

That is something far beyond a Progressives ability to comprehend. They firmly believe that if an airline goes bankrupt, suddenly there is going be a huge shortage of seats flying to and from the airports previously served by the defunct airline.
 
Why should I listen to these asses who helped crash our asses in 2008.............Yeah allowing the too big to fail to self regulate was such a great idea.......

As great as this.........I like to hit my head with a hammer because it feels so good when I stop.
Um....."too big to fail" is the result of left-wing government intervention, genius. True free-market would result in those banks, companies, etc. failing. :rofl:

The problem with banks is that they have this tendency to use other's people's money to run their business.
There is no way around this in the current system: when they extend a loan it becomes a deposit in their own bank or in another bank.
Banks must be regulated. Period.
Uh.....everybody uses "other people's money to run their business". If you make a sale (whether it is a burger, a laptop, or a house), that was someone else's money. But you earned it and now it is yours. The same way with the banks. If you choose to bank with a company - they earned your business. Just like Apple did when you bought their iPhone. There is no difference.

No, with banks its the other way around. When you deposit your money in the bank the bank adquires a liability : they owe you your money. When they extend a loan, they have an asset. But in modern banking that asset will likely be converted into the liability in another bank. By extending loans banks multiply the monetary base, such base contracts when loans are repaid, this leads to expansion and contraction cycles in the economy.... and Milton was absolutely clueless about this ( as most economists).

Furthermore, when you buy a burger, you get something in exchange of equivalent value when you perform the transaction. This is not the case with banks.
Your points are completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter if a person will take one loan at a bank to pay off another loan at another bank. That new bank has now earned your business and thus has a right to that money which they earned. Likewise, if banks want to roll up their loans and sell them off to another institution, that other institution earned that banks business.

As far as the "expansion and contraction" cycles - the banks have nothing to do with that. That is all based on government (such as tax rates hammering away at profits) and people (such as someone not planning properly for their retirement and becoming a burden of the state).
 
This should be a mandatory class for every liberal in America. There is not one thing here in the video that could even be remotely disputed. Not one.

Milton Friedman Part I: Economics 101

Milton completely disregarded the cyclic nature of the economy: I have never seen a lecture in which he mentions it. He treats macro as microeconomy mulptiplied by N.

He does make some clever comments regarding the laws of supply and demand, but the sole notion that capitalism is intrinsincly stable is laughable.
It is "intrincsincly stable". You know why? Two very simple (and undeniable reasons):
  • In the true free market, awful companies go out of business. Great companies thrive.
  • Unlike socialism, the true free market is redundancy. There is no single point of failure. There is no "too big to fail". A big bank goes out of business and nobody rescues it. All of their business shifts to other banks while opening up opportunity for new banks.

It is unstable for many reasons:
- 1)changes in the level of private debt
- 2)asset bubbles
- 3)creative destruction
- 4)changes in household income to gdp ratio ( this is linked to 1)
Everything you just named has nothing to do with the free market and everything to do with government regulation. In the free market, changes in the level of debt (increasing or reducing) only affects the institution and/or individual changing their level of debt. It in no way affects other businesses or other people. That only occurs with socialism - when the few are forced to bail out the many who took wild risks because they knew there was no actual risk - they knew they would be bailed out.

Likewise, in the free market, asset bubbles only affects the institution and/or individual with the asset in question. It in no way affects other businesses or other people. That only occurs with socialism - when the few are forced to bail out the many who took wild risks because they knew there was no actual risk - they knew they would be bailed out.

"Creative destruction" is just another in a long line of left-wing fallacies. Just because Apple manufactures a new iPhone doesn't mean you have to go buy one. And if you choose to, and that creates debt for you that you couldn't afford, only you pay the price in the true free market. Under liberalism - all of society pays the price for your bad decisions. And that's why it always ends in failure while true free markets continually generates prosperity.

And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention. This is the equivalent of proclaiming that the AIDS virus is responsible for cancer deaths.
 
This should be a mandatory class for every liberal in America. There is not one thing here in the video that could even be remotely disputed. Not one.

Milton Friedman Part I: Economics 101

Milton completely disregarded the cyclic nature of the economy: I have never seen a lecture in which he mentions it. He treats macro as microeconomy mulptiplied by N.

He does make some clever comments regarding the laws of supply and demand, but the sole notion that capitalism is intrinsincly stable is laughable.
It is "intrincsincly stable". You know why? Two very simple (and undeniable reasons):
  • In the true free market, awful companies go out of business. Great companies thrive.
  • Unlike socialism, the true free market is redundancy. There is no single point of failure. There is no "too big to fail". A big bank goes out of business and nobody rescues it. All of their business shifts to other banks while opening up opportunity for new banks.

That is something far beyond a Progressives ability to comprehend. They firmly believe that if an airline goes bankrupt, suddenly there is going be a huge shortage of seats flying to and from the airports previously served by the defunct airline.
Exactly! Because liberals believe everything occurs in a vacuum. They can't process that everything which occurs has a ripple effect. I once spoke with a devout liberal who was one of the rare liberals that was actually reasonable and willing to listen. We were discussing GM. I told him the truth - that my entire life I had never owned anything but a GM (I never planned it that way, it just worked out that way). I asked him if we had let GM go out of business if he thought I would start walking to work. Of course he said "no - you'd purchase a vehicle from another manufacturer because you'd have no other choice since GM was gone". I explained to him that ALL of GM's customers would be forced to make that same decision - which would lead to increased sales/demand from those other manufacturers. That would require all of them to hire more people to meet the demand. All of those people out of work from GM would then have better jobs with better run companies. They would be happier and the economy would be stronger.

To his credit, he immediately said "wow....I never though of it that way". Liberals don't think for themselves. Whatever propaganda they are spoon fed by the people with an agenda (namely, to get in power and stay in power) they simply by into. The funny thing is, since their leaders push "natural selection" (i.e. Darwin Theory), the don't even realize they are contradicting themselves. The free market is just "natural selection". The strongest companies thrive and populate stronger jobs, products, and other businesses. The weaker companies die off and are unable to "reproduce".
 
This should be a mandatory class for every liberal in America. There is not one thing here in the video that could even be remotely disputed. Not one.

Milton Friedman Part I: Economics 101

Milton completely disregarded the cyclic nature of the economy: I have never seen a lecture in which he mentions it. He treats macro as microeconomy mulptiplied by N.

He does make some clever comments regarding the laws of supply and demand, but the sole notion that capitalism is intrinsincly stable is laughable.
It is "intrincsincly stable". You know why? Two very simple (and undeniable reasons):
  • In the true free market, awful companies go out of business. Great companies thrive.
  • Unlike socialism, the true free market is redundancy. There is no single point of failure. There is no "too big to fail". A big bank goes out of business and nobody rescues it. All of their business shifts to other banks while opening up opportunity for new banks.

It is unstable for many reasons:
- 1)changes in the level of private debt
- 2)asset bubbles
- 3)creative destruction
- 4)changes in household income to gdp ratio ( this is linked to 1)
Everything you just named has nothing to do with the free market and everything to do with government regulation. In the free market, changes in the level of debt (increasing or reducing) only affects the institution and/or individual changing their level of debt. It in no way affects other businesses or other people. That only occurs with socialism - when the few are forced to bail out the many who took wild risks because they knew there was no actual risk - they knew they would be bailed out.

Likewise, in the free market, asset bubbles only affects the institution and/or individual with the asset in question. It in no way affects other businesses or other people. That only occurs with socialism - when the few are forced to bail out the many who took wild risks because they knew there was no actual risk - they knew they would be bailed out.

"Creative destruction" is just another in a long line of left-wing fallacies. Just because Apple manufactures a new iPhone doesn't mean you have to go buy one. And if you choose to, and that creates debt for you that you couldn't afford, only you pay the price in the true free market. Under liberalism - all of society pays the price for your bad decisions. And that's why it always ends in failure while true free markets continually generates prosperity.

And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention. This is the equivalent of proclaiming that the AIDS virus is responsible for cancer deaths.

Creative destruction has nothing to do with the example you present:

"Creative destruction, a term coined by Joseph Schumpeter in "Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy" in 1942, describes the "process of industrial mutation that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one."

"In breaking down the pre-capitalist framework of society, capitalism thus broke not only barriers that impeded its progress but also flying buttresses that prevented its collapse. That process, impressive in its relentless necessity, was not merely a matter of removing institutional deadwood, but of removing partners of the capitalist stratum, symbiosis with whom was an essential element of the capitalist schema. [... T]he capitalist process in much the same way in which it destroyed the institutional framework of feudal society also undermines its own"

Creative Destruction Definition | Investopedia
Creative destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Creative destruction is the process through which old jobs and industries are destroyed and new ones are created.
The new posts are eventually filled, but this requires an adjustment time. This is what makes the system unstable.
If the changes are too fast the labour force will not be able to accomodate to the changes.


And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention
Any links whatsoever to support your claim?
 
I explained to him that ALL of GM's customers would be forced to make that same decision - which would lead to increased sales/demand from those other manufacturers. That would require all of them to hire more people to meet the demand. All of those people out of work from GM would then have better jobs with better run companies. They would be happier and the economy would be stronger.

This is not what I meant at all.
A simple example: assume within 7 years all cars have an automatic pilot. Suddenly all drivers are laid off. Sure enough , there will be some new jobs in the IT industry and the auto industry to develop new cars, but :
A) Retooling from truck driver to engineer is a rather tough task specially if you are jobless. This changes usually take a new generation to fill the gaps, which really sucks for those left behind
B) The number of new posts might not be enough to compensate for the jobs destroyed. True enough other jobs might be made available, the problem is how much time it will take to fill the gaps.

Take a look at the charts below. Industrial production is at an all time high, but the number of industrial jobs is NOT going up. Those jobs are not comming back. And the people who lost those jobs will have to retool their abilities to get a new job.

Finally don't tell me this can't happen. Look at the charts. Look at the actual data.

Chart6.png


Industrial_production.png


CHART%201.png
 
And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention
Any links whatsoever to support your claim?
That's kind of like saying "add links to support your claim that the sun exists". If you need links to explain that government is the single biggest impact on GDP (unfortunately), then you probably shouldn't be having a discussion on economics.

Taxes - taxes dictates pricing, product, location, labor, etc. Taxes are controlled by government (from federal, to state, to local).

Labor laws - labor laws dictates labor. Labor dictates your ability to do everything and anything. It affects your ability to produce, to meet customer demand, etc. Labor laws are controlled by government.

Regulations - regulations not only dictate what you can and can't do - but they can also be costly which impacts the ability to conduct business, impacts pricing, impacts the ability to hire additional labor (or retain existing labor when regulations are altered or new regulations are implemented), etc. Regulations are controlled by government.

International Trade Agreements - as obvious as the other one's listed - this dictates what industry can and can't do overseas. It has major impact on costs, demand, opportunities, etc. Trade Agreements are controlled by government.

Do you see a pattern here? Government and Control. Please don't make me explain the obvious to you again. It's both painful and boring.
 
And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention
Any links whatsoever to support your claim?
That's kind of like saying "add links to support your claim that the sun exists". If you need links to explain that government is the single biggest impact on GDP (unfortunately), then you probably shouldn't be having a discussion on economics.

Taxes - taxes dictates pricing, product, location, labor, etc. Taxes are controlled by government (from federal, to state, to local).

Labor laws - labor laws dictates labor. Labor dictates your ability to do everything and anything. It affects your ability to produce, to meet customer demand, etc. Labor laws are controlled by government.

Regulations - regulations not only dictate what you can and can't do - but they can also be costly which impacts the ability to conduct business, impacts pricing, impacts the ability to hire additional labor (or retain existing labor when regulations are altered or new regulations are implemented), etc. Regulations are controlled by government.

International Trade Agreements - as obvious as the other one's listed - this dictates what industry can and can't do overseas. It has major impact on costs, demand, opportunities, etc. Trade Agreements are controlled by government.

Do you see a pattern here? Government and Control. Please don't make me explain the obvious to you again. It's both painful and boring.

So , the fact that there is an oversupply of non qualified labour has no effect on such share?
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
The level of private debt doesn't change that at all ?

Certainly the government has an important role to play, but it is not by far the only agent that plays a role in the labour to gdp ratio.

Take a look at this article and judge by yourself ( unless you want to disregard Business Insider as left wing propaganda ).

Here's why labor's share of GDP has been declining for 40 years

"These trends kicked into high gear when globalization (i.e. offshore competition and global supply chains) gutted U.S. industries in the 1970s (competition from Japan and South Korea) and again in the 1990s-2000s as competition from China and other emerging economies pressured U.S. corporate costs and profits.

If these factors continue to play out–and I see no reason they won’t–we can expect labor’s share of GDP to continue its slide as human labor is automated in a highly globalized economy.

This long-term erosion of earned income and household finances does not enable “growth” that is based on rising spending and borrowing. If these are no longer possible, the status quo has no Plan B."
 
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The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that samWhe effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable.
Why is it, then, that Real GDP has grown every year since the Great Republican Recession year of 2009? US Real GDP Growth Rate by Year

Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world)
Are published tax rates important, or is it tax rates PAID, the EFFECTIVE, tax rate that counts?
(US Effective tax rates, or tax rate paid, are far from the highest in any world.)


their labor laws
Do you have a link that proves that US labor laws are hurting US businesses?

and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America.
Any proof the US is hard to do business in?
The World Bank ranks the US 7th out of 189 countries for ease of doing business in.

Ease of doing business index (1=most business-friendly regulations) | Data

So they took their business somewhere else.
Why did you not mention the number one reason that companies move? That being labor cost.

Your post is easily disproved, Most with no expertise, like yourself, provide links to such sources that are impartial and back their statements. Like those I provided above and below. You, on the other hand, provide none. Here, for instance, is a link that totally disproves your comments about US tax rates for companies being the highest in the world. Or high at all, for that matter.
And "changes in household income to GDP ratio" are almost exclusively the result of government intervention
Any links whatsoever to support your claim?
That's kind of like saying "add links to support your claim that the sun exists". If you need links to explain that government is the single biggest impact on GDP (unfortunately), then you probably shouldn't be having a discussion on economics.

Taxes - taxes dictates pricing, product, location, labor, etc. Taxes are controlled by government (from federal, to state, to local).

Labor laws - labor laws dictates labor. Labor dictates your ability to do everything and anything. It affects your ability to produce, to meet customer demand, etc. Labor laws are controlled by government.

Regulations - regulations not only dictate what you can and can't do - but they can also be costly which impacts the ability to conduct business, impacts pricing, impacts the ability to hire additional labor (or retain existing labor when regulations are altered or new regulations are implemented), etc. Regulations are controlled by government.

International Trade Agreements - as obvious as the other one's listed - this dictates what industry can and can't do overseas. It has major impact on costs, demand, opportunities, etc. Trade Agreements are controlled by government.

Do you see a pattern here? Government and Control. Please don't make me explain the obvious to you again. It's both painful and boring.

.
Consider:

Fact Sheet: Corporate Tax Rates

What is cool for you Patriot, is that you are not bound by truth or evidence or integrity. You simply always, always post con talking points, which are proven lies.
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

You make it sound as if the market is incapable of making those same changes. Mexico and the US have very similar tax rates and in fact their labor regulations are harder than those US ( you can't dismiss an employee without paying 3 months of compensation, you have to pay them 10% of earnings) and yet many factories have moved there? Why ? Labour is cheaper.

Ah, then you might say it was the government who enacted NAFTA. True, but that was de-regulation to have open trade, by doing that the government was actually enabling the market forces to have a more significant role than the government.
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

You make it sound as if the market is incapable of making those same changes. Mexico and the US have very similar tax rates and in fact their labor regulations are harder than those US ( you can't dismiss an employee without paying 3 months of compensation, you have to pay them 10% of earnings) and yet many factories have moved there? Why ? Labour is cheaper.

Ah, then you might say it was the government who enacted NAFTA. True, but that was de-regulation to have open trade, by doing that the government was actually enabling the market forces to have a more significant role than the government.
Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

You make it sound as if the market is incapable of making those same changes. Mexico and the US have very similar tax rates and in fact their labor regulations are harder than those US ( you can't dismiss an employee without paying 3 months of compensation, you have to pay them 10% of earnings) and yet many factories have moved there? Why ? Labour is cheaper.

Ah, then you might say it was the government who enacted NAFTA. True, but that was de-regulation to have open trade, by doing that the government was actually enabling the market forces to have a more significant role than the government.
Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).

So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México?
That's nonesense.

The daily minimum wage in the US is about $60. In Mexico it's about $5.50 , but in PPP it is probably about $10.
Even considering savings in shipping and insurance the wages would have to go down to about $30 a day to be competitive.

Honestly , other than illegals , do you know anyone willing to work 8 hours for $30 a day?

And even in that case , that would probably do little to rise the share of labour vs GDP. Even if 50 million of such jobs were created at that miserable level that would only rise by 3% the share of labour vs gdp.
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

You make it sound as if the market is incapable of making those same changes. Mexico and the US have very similar tax rates and in fact their labor regulations are harder than those US ( you can't dismiss an employee without paying 3 months of compensation, you have to pay them 10% of earnings) and yet many factories have moved there? Why ? Labour is cheaper.

Ah, then you might say it was the government who enacted NAFTA. True, but that was de-regulation to have open trade, by doing that the government was actually enabling the market forces to have a more significant role than the government.
Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).

So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México?
That's nonesense.

The daily minimum wage in the US is about $60. In Mexico it's about $5.50 , but in PPP it is probably about $10.
Even considering savings in shipping and insurance the wages would have to go down to about $30 a day to be competitive.

Honestly , other than illegals , do you know anyone willing to work 8 hours for $30 a day?

And even in that case , that would probably do little to rise the share of labour vs GDP. Even if 50 million of such jobs were created at that miserable level that would only rise by 3% the share of labour vs gdp.

When did we get the authority to change the minimum wage in an another, sovereign country? Who knew?

We should drop the minimum wage on a Federal Level. If individual states or municipalities want one, that's their business.
 
The fact that private companies decided to offshore labour to cheaper countries doesn't have that same effect?
And why have corporations moved manufacturing overseas? Because they enjoy the cost and headaches of moving their operations? Because they love the instability of third-world countries? No. Because government (thanks to liberalism) has made doing business unsustainable. Their taxes (highest corporate taxes in the world), their labor laws, and their regulations have made it way to costly to do business in America. So they took their business somewhere else.

You make it sound as if the market is incapable of making those same changes. Mexico and the US have very similar tax rates and in fact their labor regulations are harder than those US ( you can't dismiss an employee without paying 3 months of compensation, you have to pay them 10% of earnings) and yet many factories have moved there? Why ? Labour is cheaper.

Ah, then you might say it was the government who enacted NAFTA. True, but that was de-regulation to have open trade, by doing that the government was actually enabling the market forces to have a more significant role than the government.
Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).

So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México?
That's nonesense.

The daily minimum wage in the US is about $60. In Mexico it's about $5.50 , but in PPP it is probably about $10.
Even considering savings in shipping and insurance the wages would have to go down to about $30 a day to be competitive.

Honestly , other than illegals , do you know anyone willing to work 8 hours for $30 a day?

And even in that case , that would probably do little to rise the share of labour vs GDP. Even if 50 million of such jobs were created at that miserable level that would only rise by 3% the share of labour vs gdp.

When did we get the authority to change the minimum wage in an another, sovereign country? Who knew?

We should drop the minimum wage on a Federal Level. If individual states or municipalities want one, that's their business.

Alas, I did not suggest such thing.... that's P@triot suggestion so that free markets could work properly.
Indeed such arrangements can be made as part of trade agreements.

My point is creative destruction, industrial jobs are being destroyed by technological advances, it is necesary to change the skills and toolkits of new generations: to insist in getting those jobs back is a folly... as is the notion that markets will solve the situation by liberating the minimum wage.
 
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So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México? That's nonesense.
That is nonsense. So why would you say something so stupid? Because not only did I not say that - I didn't even imply anything remotely close to it.

For starters - Mexico is a sovereign nation. We couldn't change their labor laws if we had 100% support in America. And, if both were eliminated, why would jobs come home when labor would still be just as cheap there? The cost to move everything back wouldn't make much sense.

This is business 101 and just plain common sense as well. When you go shopping for a new Ford - you're not going to pay $54,000 from one dealership when you can go to another dealership and purchase the exact same vehicle for $39,000. A consumer shops for the best deal. Businesses are consumers too. They shop for the best deal. America has given them the ultimate screw-job. They set the Ford price at $54,000 while other nations are offering it for $39,000. Only an idealist idiot wouldn't understand something so basic.

When Social Security was created and implemented by the Dumbocrats in (1938?) it was $0.25 per hour. Adjust for inflation, that comes out to $4.23 per hour today. Yet minimum wage is nearly twice that much and idiots are pushing for a $15 per hour minimum wage (which will completley decimate the economy). If minimum wage had grown along with inflation as it should have - we wouldn't have lost millions of jobs to other nations.
 
So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México? That's nonesense.
That is nonsense. So why would you say something so stupid? Because not only did I not say that - I didn't even imply anything remotely close to it.

For starters - Mexico is a sovereign nation. We couldn't change their labor laws if we had 100% support in America. And, if both were eliminated, why would jobs come home when labor would still be just as cheap there? The cost to move everything back wouldn't make much sense.

This is business 101 and just plain common sense as well. When you go shopping for a new Ford - you're not going to pay $54,000 from one dealership when you can go to another dealership and purchase the exact same vehicle for $39,000. A consumer shops for the best deal. Businesses are consumers too. They shop for the best deal. America has given them the ultimate screw-job. They set the Ford price at $54,000 while other nations are offering it for $39,000. Only an idealist idiot wouldn't understand something so basic.

When Social Security was created and implemented by the Dumbocrats in (1938?) it was $0.25 per hour. Adjust for inflation, that comes out to $4.23 per hour today. Yet minimum wage is nearly twice that much and idiots are pushing for a $15 per hour minimum wage (which will completley decimate the economy). If minimum wage had grown along with inflation as it should have - we wouldn't have lost millions of jobs to other nations.

Ok Patriot you said :

Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).
So back to YOUR point: we get rid of the MW and unions.
Exactly how many legal US citizens do you know who would work for $4.20 an hour or less ?
And how does that change the decreasing labour to gdp participation ? ( sory , but you can't really produce things if people don't have the purchasing power to buy them ).
You seem to be ignoring the charts I posted previously: increasing industrial production with a decreasing number of jobs. What does that mean ? What does the "genius" Milton have to say about that ?
 
So you think the problem would be solved by eliminating the minimum wage in both the US and México? That's nonesense.
That is nonsense. So why would you say something so stupid? Because not only did I not say that - I didn't even imply anything remotely close to it.

For starters - Mexico is a sovereign nation. We couldn't change their labor laws if we had 100% support in America. And, if both were eliminated, why would jobs come home when labor would still be just as cheap there? The cost to move everything back wouldn't make much sense.

This is business 101 and just plain common sense as well. When you go shopping for a new Ford - you're not going to pay $54,000 from one dealership when you can go to another dealership and purchase the exact same vehicle for $39,000. A consumer shops for the best deal. Businesses are consumers too. They shop for the best deal. America has given them the ultimate screw-job. They set the Ford price at $54,000 while other nations are offering it for $39,000. Only an idealist idiot wouldn't understand something so basic.

When Social Security was created and implemented by the Dumbocrats in (1938?) it was $0.25 per hour. Adjust for inflation, that comes out to $4.23 per hour today. Yet minimum wage is nearly twice that much and idiots are pushing for a $15 per hour minimum wage (which will completley decimate the economy). If minimum wage had grown along with inflation as it should have - we wouldn't have lost millions of jobs to other nations.

Ok Patriot you said :

Exactly....labor is cheaper. It's not the free market that has driven up the cost of labor in the U.S. It is government labor laws (like minimum wage) and government regulations (like those which stipulate an organization must negotiate with a union).
So back to YOUR point: we get rid of the MW and unions.
Exactly how many legal US citizens do you know who would work for $4.20 an hour or less ?
And how does that change the decreasing labour to gdp participation ? ( sory , but you can't really produce things if people don't have the purchasing power to buy them ).
You seem to be ignoring the charts I posted previously: increasing industrial production with a decreasing number of jobs. What does that mean ? What does the "genius" Milton have to say about that ?
Your frustration is palpable as the realization sets in that your precious ideology and little left-wing charts don't hold up to reality.

Businesses are consumers. Whoever makes them the best deal will win their business. Now, we can either embrace an idiotic failed socialist ideology or we can work together as a nation to provide business with best deal so that jobs and tax dollars flock here. It really is that simple. You've clearly chosen ideology and as a subsequent Cuban-style economy of poverty. I choose to embrace reality and a thriving economy.
 

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