Dubai's free market capitalism

[Diuretic]

If this system heralded by "conservatives", republicans and corporatists is so unshakably sound and the best system out there - and self-correcting... what the heck happened? Dubai is the "shining Jewel" of free market capitalism in the middle east. Now it is pretty much bankrupt and having to be bailed out by the Saudis.

Also, this came out today:

BBC NEWS | Special Reports | Free market flawed, says survey

Capitalism can't exist without government support. Something of an irony but there you go.

 

[DiamondDave]

In fact, for many the USSR was a workers utopia.

Shogs.. you just proved yourself as completely ignorant on the subject

 

[Diuretic]

Marxism, socialism, and communism

It is obvious that you know nothing about any of these...

Damn right. The misconceptions in this thread are astounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, propaganda or just strawman-building but it's risible.

 

[Diuretic]

Capitalism is the best way to accrue wealth and prosperity. Not everyone is going to succeed, however.

True enough, some will do well, many will not do well.

 

[Diuretic]

yea yea yea... it's always a matter of your superior education despite the continued failures of free market capitalism, eh bern? Like I said, it's funny to watch you people leap through fire trying to distance yourself from the failures of your pet economic theory. Any other time you'd be insisting that capitalism is the best way possible to accrue wealth and prosperity... until, of course, reality comes a crashing down as hard as they eventually did on Greenspan.

Well.. considering it has flaws but is based in the concept of freedom and not a system based on government
force and control.. I'll take support of capitalism over support over socialism, Marxism, or communism any day of the week and twice on Sunday

Capitalism has fashioned government to meet its own needs.

 

[DiamondDave]

Marxism, socialism, and communism

It is obvious that you know nothing about any of these...

Damn right. The misconceptions in this thread are astounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, propaganda or just strawman-building but it's risible.

Yes.. because Marxism, socialism, and communism get all of their wealth redistribution powers by kumbaya feelings and people who just don't have it in them to want the fruits of their labors... it all just comes completely naturally and does not take the forced power of government to ensure that the non-contributors are supported by the contributors...

Give me a fucking break...

Socialism, Marxism, and communism are failed ideologies that do not work outside of small hippie communes and small groups of people

 

[Diuretic]

Capitalism is the best way to accrue wealth and prosperity. Not everyone is going to succeed, however.

opinions and assholes, sir. Capitalism is why Batista's government found itself gladly purged from Cuba by it's "cheap labor".


We'll pass on the economic anarchy of the mythical free market, thanks. After all. If it's not one excuse it's another.

So it is your opinion there is better system for accruing wealth and job creation? Do tell.

Capitalism as a system can not screw people over. People screw people over and it will happen regardless of what system is in place. Corruption is not something unique to capitalism. You can not possibly know how a free market would turn out as one has never existed.

If you only want wealth for a few then capitalism is the way to go.

 

[Diuretic]

It is obvious that you know nothing about any of these...

Damn right. The misconceptions in this thread are astounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, propaganda or just strawman-building but it's risible.

Yes.. because Marxism, socialism, and communism get all of their wealth redistribution powers by kumbaya feelings and people who just don't have it in them to want the fruits of their labors... it all just comes completely naturally and does not take the forced power of government to ensure that the non-contributors are supported by the contributors...

Give me a fucking break...

Socialism, Marxism, and communism are failed ideologies that do not work outside of small hippie communes and small groups of people

Searching for a point. None found.

 

[DiamondDave]

Damn right. The misconceptions in this thread are astounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, propaganda or just strawman-building but it's risible.

Yes.. because Marxism, socialism, and communism get all of their wealth redistribution powers by kumbaya feelings and people who just don't have it in them to want the fruits of their labors... it all just comes completely naturally and does not take the forced power of government to ensure that the non-contributors are supported by the contributors...

Give me a fucking break...

Socialism, Marxism, and communism are failed ideologies that do not work outside of small hippie communes and small groups of people

Searching for a point. None found.

Point being that systems based on the capitalist ideal are not failures.. while all governmental systems based on socialism, Marxism, and communism have been failure and will always be failures... they simply cannot and will not work unless you have the crushing power of the ruling elite forcing the ideals within those systems

 

[Bern80]

if it means accepting beggars in the streets like you'll find in calcutta then yes, bern. It's why we have a minimum wage (that your kind are hilariously opposed to) and regulations meant to share this nation rather than pretend that you operate in an economic vacuum.

Honestly I can't come up with reason we have a minimum wage. It's not like it's enough to live on so what's the point?

And, my employer couldn't make a fucking dime were it not for the ORGANIZATION that executes the business. here... go try and make your big ideas happen without some proletariat to shit on, Bern. See how far you get. You might learn a little something besides who ELSE to point at when your economic opinions fail time and again.

I know plenty about running a business considering I come from a family that does. In my personal experience employees generally don't have a hive mind mentality where they instinctively know what they need to do to keep a business running. So spare ME this bs about how you're boss couldn't survive without you. I doubt you possess an irreplaceable skill set. Who do you think organizes you. Who do think creates your companies business plan which ultimately determines what you are going to do for the company. Employers pay for skill sets, the rarer the skill set the more you will be paid. Unfortunately for you we have a great plenty of whiners.

People who remember the 80s know better. In fact, for many the USSR was a workers utopia. Did you think that no Russian EVER put nation above disposable self interest? Just because you flaunt chinese made jeans while making every effort you could to hinder instead of HELP a socialist system doesn't give you any superiority points. Hell, Cuba proves that YOUR KIND require trade embargoes in order to perpetuate your silly fucking talking point. TRUE STORY.

Again it's a trade off. You are a chicken shit. You wold prefer safety over the opportunity to achieve what you want. And many respects capitalism is in the best interests of the nation. It has the potential to create more jobs and produce more wealth than any other system out there.

And, Bern, spare me your limp wristed attempt at shit talking and name calling. if I struck a nerve then be a fucking man and admit it rather than act like some pissed off librarian. I'll gladly be what YOU call a typical lefty given the fact that you are nothing more than a mas fabricated clone worshipping at the alter of a failed economic opinion whose only option the day after meltdown is to cry that it's someone elses fault over and over again. While facilitating a degradation human condition every time you try to normalize a minimum wage with a Mexican dirt pauper, no less. Tell me, BERN, are YOU really stupid enough to think that anyone REALLY thinks a capitalist gives a shit about anything outside of your wallet? Say it aint SO, JOE!

Accussing someone of name calling then following up with name calling. ...interesting. Pretty hard to respond to frothing blather so gonna have to skip this paragraph.

YEA! because we sure as FUCK don't see capitalist pigs abusing the system at the loss of everyone else, BERN! hell, Osha standards occurred WITHOUT ACTUAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH WERE PRODUCED BY NON REGULATED CAPITALISM! SURE! no no, Bern.. it wasn't CHILD LABOR that caused us to ban CHILD LABOR.. or the pig motherfucker capitalistas hellbent on rationalizing such.. yea, history is probably not chock FULL of examples of fucked up capitalist actions, BERN. Crying about having never attained the most pure, anarchy-ridden gravity-free market is nothing less than the laughable punchline to the joke of your economic opinions.

Sure as FUCK there were no corrupt communists at the loss of everyone else right Shoggy? Again how naive are you? Ah....more blather.....yeah



[/QUOTE]

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The sky has not fallen in Dubai. They will rebound eventually. Socialist/Communist Nations suffer these types of downturns as well. No Nation is immune to economic downturns whether they are Capitalist or Socialist/Communist. Just do some more research and you will quickly see that Free Market Capitalist Nations actually rebound much quicker and thoroughly than Socialist/Communist Nations do. Dubai is having some set-backs but they will rebound eventually. There really is no need for all the Gloom & Doom Sky is Falling stuff. Lets talk about Dubai again in ten years and i'm pretty sure they will have fully recovered and will be a major economic power in the Middle East once again. Talk to ya then.

 

[Diuretic]

Yes.. because Marxism, socialism, and communism get all of their wealth redistribution powers by kumbaya feelings and people who just don't have it in them to want the fruits of their labors... it all just comes completely naturally and does not take the forced power of government to ensure that the non-contributors are supported by the contributors...

Give me a fucking break...

Socialism, Marxism, and communism are failed ideologies that do not work outside of small hippie communes and small groups of people

Searching for a point. None found.

Point being that systems based on the capitalist ideal are not failures.. while all governmental systems based on socialism, Marxism, and communism have been failure and will always be failures... they simply cannot and will not work unless you have the crushing power of the ruling elite forcing the ideals within those systems

Elite? You know that capitalism is run by and for elites don't you?

Capitalism is an economic system that is built on certain premises and operates in a certain fashion. It is a system that requires periodical failures, not just of individual actors but the system itself. Neat one eh? To operate it must fail from time to time. That works doesn't it?

The alleged failures of socialism are brought up time and time again but never really analysed properly. It could be a bit tedious I suppose but it would be worth a discussion.

Has it failed in Cuba? Think about it for just a minute or two because Cuba is probably an interesting example.

And just to finish off, capitalism cannot function without government. It has, as I have said before, shaped government to protect it and to enable it to continue to exist. Ironic but not surprising. The elites have to cloud people's thinking with propaganda so that the truth about capitalism isn't revealed to them. If they knew how it really operated they'd try to get rid of it.

 

[Diuretic]

The sky has not fallen in Dubai. They will rebound eventually. Socialist/Communist Nations suffer these types of downturns as well. No Nation is immune to economic downturns whether they are Capitalist or Socialist/Communist. Just do some more research and you will quickly see that Free Market Capitalist Nations actually rebound much quicker and thoroughly than Socialist/Communist Nations do. Dubai is having some set-backs but they will rebound eventually. There really is no need for all the Gloom & Doom Sky is Falling stuff. Lets talk about Dubai again in ten years and i'm pretty sure they will have fully recovered and will be a major economic power in the Middle East once again. Talk to ya then.

Lots of hope in there. Dubai failed. It is being bailed out by its neighbours who can't afford to let it fail. Wall Street failed, it was bailed out by its host government because it couldn't afford to let Wall Street fail. Capitalism is entwined with its host government everywhere it is practised. The small or no government mob can't face that very simple fact. I find that a sublime irony.

 

[Bern80]

opinions and assholes, sir. Capitalism is why Batista's government found itself gladly purged from Cuba by it's "cheap labor".


We'll pass on the economic anarchy of the mythical free market, thanks. After all. If it's not one excuse it's another.

So it is your opinion there is better system for accruing wealth and job creation? Do tell.

Capitalism as a system can not screw people over. People screw people over and it will happen regardless of what system is in place. Corruption is not something unique to capitalism. You can not possibly know how a free market would turn out as one has never existed.

If you only want wealth for a few then capitalism is the way to go.

I'm sorry Diuretic but you have it backwards. This is the hardest reality to accept but the reason only a few succeed is because there just aren't that many people driven to achieve it. There is a misconception that the reason there aren't more rich is because the rich must be holding them down. It's simply not true. The truth is observable all around you in the vast majority of people who will never come close to trying to find out what their potential really is. Capitalism doesn't fail people. People fail at capitalism.

 

[Bern80]

Damn right. The misconceptions in this thread are astounding. I don't know if it's ignorance, propaganda or just strawman-building but it's risible.

Yes.. because Marxism, socialism, and communism get all of their wealth redistribution powers by kumbaya feelings and people who just don't have it in them to want the fruits of their labors... it all just comes completely naturally and does not take the forced power of government to ensure that the non-contributors are supported by the contributors...

Give me a fucking break...

Socialism, Marxism, and communism are failed ideologies that do not work outside of small hippie communes and small groups of people

Searching for a point. None found.

The point is you are complaining about how wealth is distributed under capitlaism which presumes you must think some other system will magically provide for people with little effort on their own part.

 

[Bern80]

Searching for a point. None found.

Point being that systems based on the capitalist ideal are not failures.. while all governmental systems based on socialism, Marxism, and communism have been failure and will always be failures... they simply cannot and will not work unless you have the crushing power of the ruling elite forcing the ideals within those systems

Elite? You know that capitalism is run by and for elites don't you?

Capitalism is an economic system that is built on certain premises and operates in a certain fashion. It is a system that requires periodical failures, not just of individual actors but the system itself. Neat one eh? To operate it must fail from time to time. That works doesn't it?

The alleged failures of socialism are brought up time and time again but never really analysed properly. It could be a bit tedious I suppose but it would be worth a discussion.

Has it failed in Cuba? Think about it for just a minute or two because Cuba is probably an interesting example.

And just to finish off, capitalism cannot function without government. It has, as I have said before, shaped government to protect it and to enable it to continue to exist. Ironic but not surprising. The elites have to cloud people's thinking with propaganda so that the truth about capitalism isn't revealed to them. If they knew how it really operated they'd try to get rid of it.

The reason those other systems fail is because people tend to want freedom and those other systems are not free. Some others like Shogun and possibly yourself will CLAIM you want freedom, just so long as you dont have to be burdened by its inherent risks. Sorry freedom is one of those things you can't have both ways.

The problem with capitalism, which is simply economic freedom, is that it requires active participation and effort by everyone. It requires self accountability. The second we get people that piss and moan and complain about unfairness wear there is none or think it's someone elses job to provide for them, THAT is when capitalism fails.

I really don't understand why you and Shogun keep pointing to Cuba. Does it not bother you that their government sacrafices the very FREEDOM of its citizens to accomplish that?

 

[DiamondDave]

Searching for a point. None found.

Point being that systems based on the capitalist ideal are not failures.. while all governmental systems based on socialism, Marxism, and communism have been failure and will always be failures... they simply cannot and will not work unless you have the crushing power of the ruling elite forcing the ideals within those systems

Elite? You know that capitalism is run by and for elites don't you?

Capitalism is an economic system that is built on certain premises and operates in a certain fashion. It is a system that requires periodical failures, not just of individual actors but the system itself. Neat one eh? To operate it must fail from time to time. That works doesn't it?

The alleged failures of socialism are brought up time and time again but never really analysed properly. It could be a bit tedious I suppose but it would be worth a discussion.

Has it failed in Cuba? Think about it for just a minute or two because Cuba is probably an interesting example.

And just to finish off, capitalism cannot function without government. It has, as I have said before, shaped government to protect it and to enable it to continue to exist. Ironic but not surprising. The elites have to cloud people's thinking with propaganda so that the truth about capitalism isn't revealed to them. If they knew how it really operated they'd try to get rid of it.

To have successes you cannot avoid failures.. and in the systems based on capitalism, like our own, you have the freedom to fail just as you have the freedom to succeed... and that freedom means much more to me than some nanny state redistribution center

Cuba has absolutely failed.. Soviet Union, failed... And China is emerging in to more and more in the free market

The socialists, to enforce their redistribution and suppression of individuals reaping major rewards from their personal exploits, must indeed have the forced control system... the supreme wielding power to bring about that redistribution to non-contributors at the expense of contributors... where government is the end-all-be-all, and your individual freedoms mean nothing in comparison to the state and the collective

I'll stick to the system where I can achieve as much or as little as my abilities, decisions, and actions take me... even knowing the fact that I could fall flat on my face and live in a washing machine box.. but it's me that we get me there, or keep me in my current nice house, or get me into a mansion where I can wipe my ass with $100 bills

 

[Diuretic]

So it is your opinion there is better system for accruing wealth and job creation? Do tell.

Capitalism as a system can not screw people over. People screw people over and it will happen regardless of what system is in place. Corruption is not something unique to capitalism. You can not possibly know how a free market would turn out as one has never existed.

If you only want wealth for a few then capitalism is the way to go.

I'm sorry Diuretic but you have it backwards. This is the hardest reality to accept but the reason only a few succeed is because there just aren't that many people driven to achieve it. There is a misconception that the reason there aren't more rich is because the rich must be holding them down. It's simply not true. The truth is observable all around you in the vast majority of people who will never come close to trying to find out what their potential really is. Capitalism doesn't fail people. People fail at capitalism.

Got to head off to work very shortly Bern and I'm not dodging your point which is the reason for this post. But as a preview, I disagree with your assertions (surprise!!! ) and I will explain my disagreement but I have to head off to my wage slave job shortly, given that I have not ascended to the lofty heights of rentier despite my obvious capabilities!

 

[DiamondDave]

Surprise.. diuretic disagrees with the notion that capitalism is more based on freedoms including the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed.. and probably disagrees that socialism is fully reliant on the control of the ruling elites to ensure that the redistribution to non-contributors takes place and to ensure the government controls of industry, property, and production

And we can pretty mush assume, with the way he describes how he has to go to work, that he holds much resentment for those that have succeeded while he must toil away while he fully FEELS that he DESERVES more

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Just do some more research and you will quickly see that Free Market Capitalist Nations actually rebound much quicker and thoroughly than Socialist/Communist Nations do.

Bullshit. Source, please.

Oh, and there are no true communist states anymore. Even China has a mixed economy now with a VERY capitalist bent (and companies that poison people due to lax or no regulation). There are basically no socialist states now - maybe Vietnam and Cuba as holdouts. So, what nations have failed?