Dubai's free market capitalism

[Bern80]

It seems to me that you are defending a system that enriches only a few to the detriment of the rest. I see that as immoral.

I think it is not immoral because your presumption is flawed. You are essentially stating that a byproduct of someone accumulating wealth is that someone else must suffer or have wealth forcibly taken. That is false.

Are you christian?

Nope and irrelevant.

What about that part in the bible about turning out the money changers? Isn't greed (gluttony) one of the 7 sins?

Bible citation is one of the main reasons for my above answer.

Let me turn your argument on its ear... If you are giving the vast majority of wealth to only a handful of people, aren't you, in essence, taking it from the rest bit by bit? That money has to come from somewhere and wealth is a finite resource. So, in essence, the extremely wealthy use their policies take from the rest to amass more and more wealth.

If you want to start an ideological debate at least make sure the presumptions in your hypothetical scenarios are correct. Where am I getting this money to pass out? The wealthy can't simply take your money. You have to agree to give it to them. Giving them your money also does not diminish your ability to earn more later.

If you are giving the vast majority of wealth to only a handful of people, aren't you, in essence, taking it from the rest bit by bit?

Only the government can do this. Only the government can take money from people by force and give it to someone else. The business world doesn't work that way. Again you have to agree to give them your money.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Marxism, socialism, and communism

It is obvious that you know nothing about any of these...

 

[manu1959]

What part of capitalism says you are guarunteed to make money?

Retards, this wasn't a business that failed. It was a whole country. Just like capitalist greed toppled our economy, only we didn't technically go bankrupt. Do you think there should be more regulation when capitalism fails like this?

whole countries fail....USSR....iceland and now dubai.....although dubai was more of a family run business that made bad choices and failed....

our economy was toppled by government intervention in the lending market which created greater risk which was then offset by a very creative securities scheme which failed....

capitalisim would not have bailed out the failures but let them fail and those still standing would have bought up the assests....instead the government used future tax dollars to prop up the market....

 

[Mr. Peepers]

[Only the government can do this. Only the government can take money from people by force and give it to someone else. The business world doesn't work that way. Again you have to agree to give them your money. /QUOTE]

Not true. The wealthy have the money and the power. They have the means and agenda to influence legeslature which is why almost all of modern policy is generally in favor of them. You have energy companies writing energy bills, pharma writing drug / FDA bills and the meat industry strangling the USDA. You have to give them your money when necessities are involved. Seems you're ok with the government forcing money from the lower classes to go to the already wealthy - as in Bush's tax cuts. Face it, wages have not kept up with the cost of living (which is controlled by private industry). The middle and lower classes are losing ground each and every year. And where is that money going? To the top, that's where. You cannot deny that this, too, is income redistribution.

 

[DiamondDave]

Marxism, socialism, and communism

It is obvious that you know nothing about any of these...

In actuality.. considering how you have attempted to 'discuss' on this issue, as well as many others, the thing that has been shown is that you are the one who knows nothing on the political, legal, and social subjects being debated

But go ahead with your continued attempt to bob and weave around the questions asked and the points shown to you.. your credibility slips with every post and it's actually fun to laugh at your diminished mental capacities

 

[DiamondDave]

[Only the government can do this. Only the government can take money from people by force and give it to someone else. The business world doesn't work that way. Again you have to agree to give them your money.

Not true. The wealthy have the money and the power. They have the means and agenda to influence legeslature which is why almost all of modern policy is generally in favor of them. You have energy companies writing energy bills, pharma writing drug / FDA bills and the meat industry strangling the USDA. You have to give them your money when necessities are involved. Seems you're ok with the government forcing money from the lower classes to go to the already wealthy - as in Bush's tax cuts. Face it, wages have not kept up with the cost of living (which is controlled by private industry). The middle and lower classes are losing ground each and every year. And where is that money going? To the top, that's where. You cannot deny that this, too, is income redistribution.

Ahhh.. debating you is like clubbing a baby seal.. no real sport it in

1) Funny.. you can generate your own electricity off the grid and if you actually produce more than you use, you can sell it back to the energy companies... nobody is forcing you to take any drug, and you can go vegan or grow your own food.. the FACT is that you AGREE to pay for the services you use as a free person in this society
2) No money was taken from any 'lower classes' in the 'tax cut'.. and maybe you should actually look at the numbers of people who pay no income taxes and the actual percentages that different earning groups pay (even under the 'Bush Tax cuts')
3) The wage you earn is agreed upon by you.... you want more, put yourself in demand more.. open your own fucking business.. work more hours.. work more jobs... change fields... but that is up to you and a benefit of the freedoms you have in this capitalist society

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Iceland failed because of the toxic mortgage derivitives they were sold. The USSR bankrupted themselves with the arms race. Dubai built dumb palm tree islands during an economic downturn. The economy was toppled by LACK of government intervention and regulation. The entire blame rests on the inventors of these rediculous financial tools and the greedy lenders, IMO. And people who were too stupid to do their homework... not that there weren't predatory and fraudulent lenders too, mind you. Some people really did get taken.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Ahhh.. debating you is like clubbing a baby seal.. no real sport it in

Ugh, and debating you is like talking to my cat's litter box and about as enlightening.

1) Funny.. you can generate your own electricity off the grid and if you actually produce more than you use, you can sell it back to the energy companies... nobody is forcing you to take any drug, and you can go vegan or grow your own food.. the FACT is that you AGREE to pay for the services you use as a free person in this society

Are you kidding me? Are you really going to the "you can grow your own food" route? My necessities:

Shelter, food, clothing, electricity are going up faster than my wages - and this is the same for everyone. I keep less and less of my money every year. It is going to my landlord, big agra, China and the energy companies.


2) No money was taken from any 'lower classes' in the 'tax cut'.. and maybe you should actually look at the numbers of people who pay no income taxes and the actual percentages that different earning groups pay (even under the 'Bush Tax cuts')

The CBO study proved otherwise: Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle (washingtonpost.com)



3) The wage you earn is agreed upon by you.... you want more, put yourself in demand more.. open your own fucking business.. work more hours.. work more jobs... change fields... but that is up to you and a benefit of the freedoms you have in this capitalist society

BS and you know it. Wages have been stagnant since the 70's and things are only getting worse. Again, policy favoring the rich. They won't be happy until we bring back indentured servitude to this country.

Ex-labor secretary: Stagnant wages are biggest economic problem | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
Middle class living on the edge? - MSN Money

 

[DiamondDave]

Ahhh.. debating you is like clubbing a baby seal.. no real sport it in

Ugh, and debating you is like talking to my cat's litter box and about as enlightening.

1) Funny.. you can generate your own electricity off the grid and if you actually produce more than you use, you can sell it back to the energy companies... nobody is forcing you to take any drug, and you can go vegan or grow your own food.. the FACT is that you AGREE to pay for the services you use as a free person in this society

Are you kidding me? Are you really going to the "you can grow your own food" route? My necessities:

Shelter, food, clothing, electricity are going up faster than my wages - and this is the same for everyone. I keep less and less of my money every year. It is going to my landlord, big agra, China and the energy companies.


2) No money was taken from any 'lower classes' in the 'tax cut'.. and maybe you should actually look at the numbers of people who pay no income taxes and the actual percentages that different earning groups pay (even under the 'Bush Tax cuts')

The CBO study proved otherwise: Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle (washingtonpost.com)



3) The wage you earn is agreed upon by you.... you want more, put yourself in demand more.. open your own fucking business.. work more hours.. work more jobs... change fields... but that is up to you and a benefit of the freedoms you have in this capitalist society

BS and you know it. Wages have been stagnant since the 70's and things are only getting worse. Again, policy favoring the rich. They won't be happy until we bring back indentured servitude to this country.

Ex-labor secretary: Stagnant wages are biggest economic problem | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
Middle class living on the edge? - MSN Money

Are you kidding me douche bag???

1) You have the freedom to use utilities or services just as you have the freedom to like like the unibomber in the middle of the fucking woods... nobody is forcing you to do a damn thing.. nobody is forcing you not to use solar panels or anything else you wish to generate your own.. nobody is forcing you to buy clothes instead of making your own...

2) No.. the CBO did not prove anything against what I stated.. perhaps you should learn to read what you cite... perhaps you should also realize where the entire tax burden sits in reality... and perhaps you should realize that ones like you would cringe of a system of true equality under the law in taxation with an equal % burden on all income... so that there is no punishment burden on the higher earners like we have now.. let's see the numbers of people who pay zero monies in income tax... again.. no monies were taken from the middle class or the poor and given to the rich

3) Not BS and you showed absolutely nothing.. you indeed get what you agree to.. nobody enslaves you to a job, career path, skill set, etc....

You are a fucking idiot

 

[Mr. Peepers]

But go ahead with your continued attempt to bob and weave around the questions asked and the points shown to you.. your credibility slips with every post and it's actually fun to laugh at your diminished mental capacities

I'm not even talking to you, but I'll bite. What question did I leave unanswered? What bobbing or weaving have I done around a question? I've read your rigtwing talky point posts many times before and nothing I say will even enter your pea brain as an open-minded consideration, so I consider you a lost cause. It is called a DEBATE by the way. Just because you present points of view, it doesn't make them right (and they're not). I'd like to see the day when such a mental midget as yourself could "show points" to me. Laugh away little man, laugh away.

 

[Bern80]

[Only the government can do this. Only the government can take money from people by force and give it to someone else. The business world doesn't work that way. Again you have to agree to give them your money. /QUOTE]

Not true. The wealthy have the money and the power. They have the means and agenda to influence legeslature which is why almost all of modern policy is generally in favor of them. You have energy companies writing energy bills, pharma writing drug / FDA bills and the meat industry strangling the USDA. You have to give them your money when necessities are involved. Seems you're ok with the government forcing money from the lower classes to go to the already wealthy - as in Bush's tax cuts. Face it, wages have not kept up with the cost of living (which is controlled by private industry). The middle and lower classes are losing ground each and every year. And where is that money going? To the top, that's where. You cannot deny that this, too, is income redistribution.

You suffer the same problem every liberal suffers Peepes. You are so busy trying figure out how to be a victim that you wouldn't see other options if they hit you in the face.

The government is the only entity that can take your money over which you have no say over. The rest are choices. You may think you have no choice in paying for necessities, but what you are really paying for is convenience. It is more convenient to just buy electricity than it is to maintain a wind turbine.

But you seem to be arguing a bigger picture. Is it your position that you should not have to pay for neccessities? Why should you not have to pay for something that someone else has produced for you?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You suffer the same problem every liberal suffers Peepes. You are so busy trying figure out how to be a victim that you wouldn't see other options if they hit you in the face.

I'm not a victim. I do believe that income is being funnelled from the bottom to the top, and I believe most economists agree with me. I am opposing your assertion that we are not now forcibly redistributing wealth - in reverse, since you think that this imoral.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

But you seem to be arguing a bigger picture. Is it your position that you should not have to pay for neccessities? Why should you not have to pay for something that someone else has produced for you?

And why should we allow private corporations to gouge us for things we need? Of course we have to pay for necessities. I just think the stagnant and falling wages and hemhorraging of jobs coupled with the rapid rise in the cost of pretty much everything will spell doom for this country and its economy.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Sorry Bern, gotta go to a meeting. Nice debating you. Give Dave a spanking for me. He's got a potty mouth...

 

[DiamondDave]

But go ahead with your continued attempt to bob and weave around the questions asked and the points shown to you.. your credibility slips with every post and it's actually fun to laugh at your diminished mental capacities

I'm not even talking to you, but I'll bite. What question did I leave unanswered? What bobbing or weaving have I done around a question? I've read your rigtwing talky point posts many times before and nothing I say will even enter your pea brain as an open-minded consideration, so I consider you a lost cause. It is called a DEBATE by the way. Just because you present points of view, it doesn't make them right (and they're not). I'd like to see the day when such a mental midget as yourself could "show points" to me. Laugh away little man, laugh away.

No, shit nugget... when you are presented with facts, they are indeed that...

It is a fact that you CHOOSE To pay for the services you want, the products you want, etc... you are not being forced to use or pay for any of those things.... you are free to purchase them and you are free to live without

We'll still be waiting for you to answer the question and provide the citation where scripture demands forced wealth redistribution... and btw, you may wish to try and understand the the 'moneychangers' part of the Jesus teachings was not about distribution, but rather the desecration of the holy temple in his eyes

 

[Bern80]

Ahhh.. debating you is like clubbing a baby seal.. no real sport it in

Are you kidding me? Are you really going to the "you can grow your own food" route? My necessities:


Shelter, food, clothing, electricity are going up faster than my wages - and this is the same for everyone. I keep less and less of my money every year. It is going to my landlord, big agra, China and the energy companies.

The electricty thing is not some fantasy Peepers. I have very close friends that do exactly what Diamond said. They installed solar panels and they indeed do sell the extra power they don't use.

As to your expenses rising. It's simple. Increase revenue or decrease expenses. You seem to believe there is some type of social contract in place that doesn't exist. You seem to think it is someone elses job to provide for you. It isn't. You are paid based on what are worth. If you don't like it, make yourself worth more.

BS and you know it. Wages have been stagnant since the 70's and things are only getting worse. Again, policy favoring the rich. They won't be happy until we bring back indentured servitude to this country.

You're right, they have not. IRRELEVANT. To complain about this point presumes that it is somehow your employers social duty to keep up with your expenses. It isn't.

 

[Ringel05]

What part of capitalism says you are guarunteed to make money?

Retards, this wasn't a business that failed. It was a whole country. Just like capitalist greed toppled our economy, only we didn't technically go bankrupt. Do you think there should be more regulation when capitalism fails like this?

You honestly don't have a clue do ya.

 

[DiamondDave]

What part of capitalism says you are guarunteed to make money?

Retards, this wasn't a business that failed. It was a whole country. Just like capitalist greed toppled our economy, only we didn't technically go bankrupt. Do you think there should be more regulation when capitalism fails like this?

You honestly don't have a clue do ya.

This guy is about half a step above a gibbon in cranial capacity and delusional enough to think he has a clue as to what he is talking about... ignoring reality, ignoring fact, and trying to replace it all with agenda driven slogans given by others who believe in a left-wing fantasy world of redistribution, entitlements, and the 'rich' taking from them

 

[Shogun]

it's funny to watch capitalistas throw dubai under the same bus they left Greenspan under while trying to pretend that normally they are not out insisting that capitalism is the key to widespread wealth creation.


seriously.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

it's funny to watch capitalistas throw dubai under the same bus they left Greenspan under while trying to pretend that normally they are not out insisting that capitalism is the key to widespread wealth creation.


seriously.

I'd say it's funny that you're unable to see how a central planner artificially manipulating interest rates is not indicative of free market capitalism, but it's really not.