Draft or NO Draft?

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Charter Member
May 8, 2004
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This question to members is "should there be a military draft or not"?

I wanted to post this article with the question...

Open Letter

Fri Jan 28, 9:00 AM ET Op/Ed - The Weekly Standard


A bipartisan group urges the congressional leadership to substantively increase the size of the Army and the Marines.


Washington - Dear Senator Frist, Senator Reid, Speaker Hastert, and Representative Pelosi:



The United States military is too small for the responsibilities we are asking it to assume. Those responsibilities are real and important. They are not going away. The United States will not and should not become less engaged in the world in the years to come. But our national security, global peace and stability, and the defense and promotion of freedom in the post-9/11 world require a larger military force than we have today. The administration has unfortunately resisted increasing our ground forces to the size needed to meet today's (and tomorrow's) missions and challenges.

So we write to ask you and your colleagues in the legislative branch to take the steps necessary to increase substantially the size of the active duty Army and Marine Corps. While estimates vary about just how large an increase is required, and Congress will make its own determination as to size and structure, it is our judgment that we should aim for an increase in the active duty Army and Marine Corps, together, of at least 25,000 troops each year over the next several years.

There is abundant evidence that the demands of the ongoing missions in the greater Middle East, along with our continuing defense and alliance commitments elsewhere in the world, are close to exhausting current U.S. ground forces. For example, just late last month, Lieutenant General James Helmly, chief of the Army Reserve, reported that "overuse" in Iraq and Afghanistan could be leading to a "broken force." Yet after almost two years in Iraq and almost three years in Afghanistan, it should be evident that our engagement in the greater Middle East is truly, in Condoleezza Rice's term, a "generational commitment." The only way to fulfill the military aspect of this commitment is by increasing the size of the force available to our civilian leadership.

The administration has been reluctant to adapt to this new reality. We understand the dangers of continued federal deficits, and the fiscal difficulty of increasing the number of troops. But the defense of the United States is the first priority of the government. This nation can afford a robust defense posture along with a strong fiscal posture. And we can afford both the necessary number of ground troops and what is needed for transformation of the military.

In sum: We can afford the military we need. As a nation, we are spending a smaller percentage of our GDP on the military than at any time during the Cold War. We do not propose returning to a Cold War-size or shape force structure. We do insist that we act responsibly to create the military we need to fight the war on terror and fulfill our other responsibilities around the world.

The men and women of our military have performed magnificently over the last few years. We are more proud of them than we can say. But many of them would be the first to say that the armed forces are too small. And we would say that surely we should be doing more to honor the contract between America and those who serve her in war. Reserves were meant to be reserves, not regulars. Our regulars and reserves are not only proving themselves as warriors, but as humanitarians and builders of emerging democracies. Our armed forces, active and reserve, are once again proving their value to the nation. We can honor their sacrifices by giving them the manpower and the materiel they need.

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution places the power and the duty to raise and support the military forces of the United States in the hands of the Congress. That is why we, the undersigned, a bipartisan group with diverse policy views, have come together to call upon you to act. You will be serving your country well if you insist on providing the military manpower we need to meet America's obligations, and to help ensure success in carrying out our foreign policy objectives in a dangerous, but also hopeful, world.

Respectfully,

Peter Beinart - Jeffrey Bergner - Daniel Blumenthal - Max Boot - Eliot Cohen

Ivo H. Daalder - Thomas Donnelly - Michele Flournoy - Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.

Reuel Marc Gerecht - Lt. Gen. Buster C. Glosson (USAF, retired) - Bruce P. Jackson

Frederick Kagan - Robert Kagan - Craig Kennedy - Paul Kennedy

Col. Robert Killebrew (USA, retired) - William Kristol - Will Marshall

Clifford May - Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey (USA, retired) - Daniel McKivergan

Joshua Muravchik - Steven J. Nider - Michael O'Hanlon

Mackubin Thomas Owens - Ralph Peters - Danielle Pletka - Stephen P. Rosen

Maj. Gen. Robert H. Scales (USA, retired) - Randy Scheunemann - Gary Schmitt

Walter Slocombe - James B. Steinberg




http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/weeklystandard/20050128/cm_weeklystandard/openletter
 
My personal opinion is, and I've thought this for a very long time, that there should be a two year MANDATORY military commitment for EVERYONE. INCLUDING ILLEGAL ALIENS! Hey, if you're here, do it or get the fuck out.

Two years is such a short time, but it would solve ALL our current problems with military staffing.
 
yeah think there should be a draft too. a little disicpline never hurt anyone. neither did a little physical exertion.
 
I dont think there should be a draft unless China decides to invade us. we have been dealing with what we have faced so far. President Bush is not going to bite off more than we can chew at a time.
 
Avatar4321 said:
I dont think there should be a draft unless China decides to invade us. we have been dealing with what we have faced so far. President Bush is not going to bite off more than we can chew at a time.

It would appear that the Prez already HAS bitten off more than we can chew, hence the arguement for more troops.

In this day and age, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with having a damn big military. Bigger than what we already have.
 
Avatar4321 said:
I dont think there should be a draft unless China decides to invade us. we have been dealing with what we have faced so far. President Bush is not going to bite off more than we can chew at a time.

Don't be so sure of that old son...
 
NATO AIR said:
national service (including the military) should be a requirement for all 18 year olds
While I agree that national service should be a requirement, I dont think that necessarily means joining the military. I have seen both the draft and the all volunteer force and worked and lived in both...in my opinion, a draft does more harm than good. There are many, many things the youht of America could do besides the military that would make the US a better, safer place to live.
 
CSM said:
While I agree that national service should be a requirement, I dont think that necessarily means joining the military. I have seen both the draft and the all volunteer force and worked and lived in both...in my opinion, a draft does more harm than good. There are many, many things the youht of America could do besides the military that would make the US a better, safer place to live.

It wouldn't be a draft it was mandatory. And two years out of your life when you're 18 goes by so fast it's a non-issue.
 
CSM said:
While I agree that national service should be a requirement, I dont think that necessarily means joining the military. I have seen both the draft and the all volunteer force and worked and lived in both...in my opinion, a draft does more harm than good. There are many, many things the youht of America could do besides the military that would make the US a better, safer place to live.

My bust, I meant to say, national service (which can include the military).

We've been here before and had some great discussions about this. Its just a shame the politicians never listen.
 
i think it would be better in the long run. first, the disicpline side. alot of these kids, around here anyway, run around like wild indians. you see it on the news, in papers, and more than likley out in public.
physically, have you seen how America is fat now days? with the movies on demand, video games, fast food anyway you want it, "now taking credit cards". you can put your celulite on credit now. its no wonder kids dont want to do anything besides sit at home where they dont have to want for anything.
Pales right, a couple of years at 18 is nothing. and further, they get trained for a job they can take into the real world after service while making a paycheck. fuck that welfare to work crap.
 
Johnney said:
i think it would be better in the long run. first, the disicpline side. alot of these kids, around here anyway, run around like wild indians. you see it on the news, in papers, and more than likley out in public.
physically, have you seen how America is fat now days? with the movies on demand, video games, fast food anyway you want it, "now taking credit cards". you can put your celulite on credit now. its no wonder kids dont want to do anything besides sit at home where they dont have to want for anything.
Pales right, a couple of years at 18 is nothing. and further, they get trained for a job they can take into the real world after service while making a paycheck. fuck that welfare to work crap.

The problem is you pass those social problems to the military to solve for you. It would be one thing if the citizens of this country had not insisted that the military also become politically correct, but alas, they have. I have had to deal with some of these social misfits in the past...they were bad for morale and the good order and discipline of the units I was in... many of them were little thugs that needed jail time as opposed to military discipline. Nor is the Army a "fat farm". Yes, they can and do force individuals to get in shape, but if they cannot or will not, guess what...they are out and right back where they started. The premise for this is that the folks in the military WANT TO BE THERE. If they dont, your two years of mandatory service become a joke...just put on a few pounds and "presto chango" you have a civilian who cannot and does not complete the two years of service for "medical" reasons.

On top of all that, you are asking the US military to perform some pretty tough tasks with unwilling and sometimes inferior resources....
 
Perhaps then you insitute a ruling that if you are unfit for military service you can have a choice of other, "fat-friendly," "homosexual friendly," "conscientious objector-friendly," 2-year service option....i.e. doing all those peacekeeping things that you can do without military support...building village water systems, innoculating children in African villages, etc.
 
Gem said:
Perhaps then you insitute a ruling that if you are unfit for military service you can have a choice of other, "fat-friendly," "homosexual friendly," "conscientious objector-friendly," 2-year service option....i.e. doing all those peacekeeping things that you can do without military support...building village water systems, innoculating children in African villages, etc.
It's called the Peace Corps
 
We don't need a draft...I've talked to all the branches here in Seattle while at MEPS. Their a little low but not enough for a draft. They can simply lower their standards. None of them are feeling a hurt, people are actually having to serve can you believe it?
 
CSM said:
The problem is you pass those social problems to the military to solve for you. It would be one thing if the citizens of this country had not insisted that the military also become politically correct, but alas, they have. I have had to deal with some of these social misfits in the past...they were bad for morale and the good order and discipline of the units I was in... many of them were little thugs that needed jail time as opposed to military discipline. Nor is the Army a "fat farm". Yes, they can and do force individuals to get in shape, but if they cannot or will not, guess what...they are out and right back where they started. The premise for this is that the folks in the military WANT TO BE THERE. If they dont, your two years of mandatory service become a joke...just put on a few pounds and "presto chango" you have a civilian who cannot and does not complete the two years of service for "medical" reasons.

On top of all that, you are asking the US military to perform some pretty tough tasks with unwilling and sometimes inferior resources....

You have to take the good with the bad in everything you do in life. The same would be true for the military, and I dare say, the military is very well equiped to deal with problem punks and fat boys. What you should think about is how many of these people that would be straightened out, and may find that the military makes a good home for them, and they end up life'ing it and being outstanding soilders.
 
Pale Rider said:
You have to take the good with the bad in everything you do in life. The same would be true for the military, and I dare say, the military is very well equiped to deal with problem punks and fat boys. What you should think about is how many of these people that would be straightened out, and may find that the military makes a good home for them, and they end up life'ing it and being outstanding soilders.
What about me? I want to be a Marine. Why would I want to jeopardize my life with having someone who doesn't want to be there. Who knows they may pick up and run when the heat is on. Screw that the people I'm going to boot with are awesome, and I wouldn't want anyone else on my team. The only thing mandatory is like a box pusher. I wouldn't even want them to be cooks (who knows what they might do to my food). Just too much risk there I think. It could free up some other jobs though so some guys could go infantry, course I don't know about other branches but thats what all wannbe Marines want it infantry.
 
CSM said:
The problem is you pass those social problems to the military to solve for you. It would be one thing if the citizens of this country had not insisted that the military also become politically correct, but alas, they have. I have had to deal with some of these social misfits in the past...they were bad for morale and the good order and discipline of the units I was in... many of them were little thugs that needed jail time as opposed to military discipline. Nor is the Army a "fat farm". Yes, they can and do force individuals to get in shape, but if they cannot or will not, guess what...they are out and right back where they started. The premise for this is that the folks in the military WANT TO BE THERE. If they dont, your two years of mandatory service become a joke...just put on a few pounds and "presto chango" you have a civilian who cannot and does not complete the two years of service for "medical" reasons.

On top of all that, you are asking the US military to perform some pretty tough tasks with unwilling and sometimes inferior resources....

Here is the deal. If you don't desire with all your heart and soul to break things and kill people, I don't need you in my Corps. I concur with CSM totally on this. A leader spends 90% of his time with the bottom 10% of his people. That is a sorry stat, but true. If we have a draft or national service or whatever, that 10% will jump to well over 50% I'd wager. That means that the good Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine will not get the training or attention they deserve. And then to add to it, the draftee that doesn't want to be there will endanger my daughter (who does) and I will have to go back on active duty to put a boot up his ass.

Johnney said:
i think it would be better in the long run. first, the disicpline side. alot of these kids, around here anyway, run around like wild indians. you see it on the news, in papers, and more than likley out in public.
physically, have you seen how America is fat now days? with the movies on demand, video games, fast food anyway you want it, "now taking credit cards". you can put your celulite on credit now. its no wonder kids dont want to do anything besides sit at home where they dont have to want for anything.
Pales right, a couple of years at 18 is nothing. and further, they get trained for a job they can take into the real world after service while making a paycheck. fuck that welfare to work crap.

In two years time they get diddly. Two years barely gets them thru the bootcamp, bwt, and MOS school pipeline. The techincal fields are worse. I don't think you want a substandard, pissed off, useta-be fat boy gangbanger, issued an assault weapon do you? Put em in the peace corps or the boy scouts.

wolvie20m said:
We don't need a draft...I've talked to all the branches here in Seattle while at MEPS. Their a little low but not enough for a draft. They can simply lower their standards. None of them are feeling a hurt, people are actually having to serve can you believe it?

Are you insane? You want to lower standards? Fifty percent of the board beefs about how weak we are and you wanna lower standards? Better to have 100 professionals than 200 amatuers. You can overwhelm the enemy with substandard troops, but the cost will be high. Look at how America is bugging out over 1400 or so dead in over two years. Imagine that number tripling because you lowered the bar and gave them a pass and a trip overseas. I aint making that casualty call, sorry.

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pegwinn said:
Are you insane? You want to lower standards?

Depends on which standards one is talking about. There are a lot of really good potential soldiers that can't get into the military because either 1) they dropped out of high-school cuz they were poor and went to work to help support the family or 2) they did something wrong, from which they learned and now they can't get in.

They need to evaluate each potential recruit based on abilities and potential and rely less on generic rules of admission.
 

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