Don't Say "Support the Troops, Bring Them Home"

[Annie]

http://knoxnews.com/kns/perspectives/article/0,1406,KNS_2797_3946335,00.html

A soldier speaks out: The good military is doing often not reported

By DAVID M. LUCAS
July 24, 2005

As I read the letters in a recent Sunday Perspective section which were, for the most part, very anti-war, I could not help but feel a great deal of frustration and sadness for the people who wrote them and those who share their views. The letter writers said things such as, "This war is almost a carbon copy of the Vietnam War," "Bush lied to America," and my favorite, "Let's support our troops. Bring them home."

These are some of the most ridiculous statements I have read in over a year. Why in over a year? Because I just returned home after spending 367 days patrolling the streets in downtown Baghdad with the Army's 10th Mountain Division.

To address the first point of this being a carbon copy of the Vietnam War, I will only ask if the letter writer served in either Vietnam or Iraq. If not, then he has no basis for his opinion except what he has read in the press or seen on TV as to what either is really like.

I know that the war my men and I fought is a totally different war than the one I see being reported by almost the entire media. There are a few exceptions to this, but they are generally overwhelmed by the massive anti-war/anti-Bush crowd.

"Bush lied to America" is not only false, but it is laughable. Every single major intelligence agency in the world agreed that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction. Virtually every politician, regardless of party affiliation, agreed that he had them and went on record as saying such.

Did he have them or not is a question that will take a long time to answer, due to the many possibilities such as destroying the WMD, moving them to Syria or that they never existed in the first place. I don't pretend to know the answer, but I do know that Saddam needed to go, and the world — especially the United States — is a better and safer place without him in power.

"Let's support our troops. Bring them home." Please don't ever say those words again. Nothing is so disheartening to our troops who are in harm's way than to hear our own citizens say things like that.

On June 16, 2004, I willingly said goodbye to my wife and parents in a parking lot at Fort Drum, N.Y., not knowing if I would ever see them again. I don't expect any kinds of praise for this or special thanks because that is my job, and I knowingly volunteered for it. I never would have done that if I did not believe that I was defending this great country of ours and all those in it.

Many people will think this is just defending the president, but I will tell you that I would never risk my life for somebody else's ideas if I did not hold them myself. That being said, I am a soldier, and I will do my duty to my country every time, no matter what the personal cost.

As I said before, there are two different wars being fought: the war in Iraq and the war being reported in the media. Very few times are the great things that are being done in Iraq reported on because they do not grab the headlines or the ratings that casualties do.

One of the biggest exceptions I have seen is the News Sentinel. I know because the paper plastered my face across the front page of the paper several months ago when my men rescued two kidnappers and freed two Egyptian nationals who had been abducted the day prior and were on their way to being beheaded. While this was a great day for us, it was certainly not the first time we had helped Iraqis or other innocent people.

After one particular suicide car bomb went off, killing nearly two dozen people and destroying several civilian homes, my platoon helped a family out by bringing wood to board the windows that had been blown out and brandishing brooms to clean up the rubble caused by the blast. I can assure you that those people were glad we were there, and we were more than happy to help, even though our efforts were not known to anyone outside that family and my platoon.

On another occasion, we were able to put two generators into a town that had never had steady power before, and we gave a reliable source of energy to over 300 homes. That story was never reported in the United States.

What was reported was another suicide bomber who blew about 150 meters from a site that my battery was tasked with protecting. This particular bombing was aimed at the Jordanian Embassy, which was located a couple hundred meters down the road. The bomber was successful in killing himself, one embassy guard and a family of seven who lived across the street from the embassy.

So I spent Christmas morning helping to recover the bodies of the mother and her six small children. In fact, this story was so spectacular that my picture was taken by an Associated Press photographer at the site, and it was on the cover of newspapers all over the world. Why this story and not a story of one of the hundreds of good deeds that took place all over Iraq at the same time? Because "Nine Dead in Bombing" will sell more papers than "Platoon Helps Innocent Bombing Victims."

I will wrap this up by saying that you are entitled to your beliefs, and you should believe in whatever you want, but don't pretend to know what you are talking about just because you have watched 30 minutes of CNN the night before. Go and talk to the people who have been there — not the people who make assumptions from a TV studio — and then form your opinion based on facts.

Don't pretend to support troops by trying to undercut their efforts at the same time. Just go to bed at night and pray for their safety and thank God that they are there to protect you and your family, no matter your beliefs.

Copyright 2005, KnoxNews. All Rights Reserved.

Oh yeah, he also won a bronze star: http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/002598.html

 

[hylandrdet]

http://knoxnews.com/kns/perspectives/article/0,1406,KNS_2797_3946335,00.html



Oh yeah, he also won a bronze star: http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/002598.html

John F. Kennedy and Harry Truman highlight democratic presidents who'd served in wars. Not to mention Woodrow Wilson and FDR, who led this country, while the US were fighting LEGITIMATE Wars.

The reasons why these wars we're won was because the liberals and the conservatives BOTH saw a significant threat, thus chosing to set their differences aside and fight together. That's why John Kerry went to Vietnam, despite the fact that he didn't believe in the war.

When you have soldiers speaking out for or against a war, you end up creating divisions within the ranks, thus leading to potential confusion, which in turn, could lead to cowardice, treason or worst, "fragging". In layman's terms, such talk can potentially INCREASE soldier casualties.

It's one thing for you, Kathy, to proclaim yourself as a master of political talk, it's another to proclaim that you're the master of troop morale.

I am totally appaulled by his comments. Soldiers are held by the spirit of the UCMJ, concerning soldier behaviour, to do what they're told and to not speak out in support or criticism of the war they're fighting, while in active duty. If he's no longer serving, fine, it's his opinion; but if he's still on the roster, he needs to shut up and do what he is told! He's suppose to be A-political, act like it soldier!

 

[Annie]

John F. Kennedy and Harry Truman highlight democratic presidents who'd served in wars. Not to mention Woodrow Wilson and FDR, who led this country, while the US were fighting LEGITIMATE Wars.

The reasons why these wars we're won was because the liberals and the conservatives BOTH saw a significant threat, thus chosing to set their differences aside and fight together. That's why John Kerry went to Vietnam, despite the fact that he didn't believe in the war.

When you have soldiers speaking out for or against a war, you end up creating divisions within the ranks, thus leading to potential confusion, which in turn, could lead to cowardice, treason or worst, "fragging". In layman's terms, such talk can potentially INCREASE soldier casualties.

It's one thing for you, Kathy, to proclaim yourself as a master of political talk, it's another to proclaim that you're the master of troop morale.

I am totally appaulled by his comments. Soldiers are held by the spirit of the UCMJ, concerning soldier behaviour, to do what they're told and to not speak out in support or criticism of the war they're fighting, while in active duty. If he's no longer serving, fine, it's his opinion; but if he's still on the roster, he needs to shut up and do what he is told! He's suppose to be A-political, act like it soldier!

I don't think that is what the UMCJ says. One cannot criticise an officer, that is not what was going on. And what the are you talking about regarding everything else?

You don't want to let the soldiers speak? Why am I not surprised? Hurry, you have 2 weeks to save Brian (?) from Gabby. you two were made for each other.

 

[5stringJeff]

Soldiers receive briefings on what they can and can't say, and whether or not they can discuss their opinions. I really have no idea why you don't think this soldier shouldn't be able to respond to the anti-war crowd's rhetoric.

 

[hylandrdet]

Soldiers receive briefings on what they can and can't say, and whether or not they can discuss their opinions. I really have no idea why you don't think this soldier shouldn't be able to respond to the anti-war crowd's rhetoric.

As Saving Private Ryan is about to reach the ranks of the Ten Commandments, as a annual televised event, you had foregotten it's most significant moment; well as far as I'm concerned. The scene in which the troops were debating the cause of the mission.

If you had paid attention to detail, you'd found out that the captain had spoken out in a manner which suggested that this mission was bullshit, but he's determined to carry out his orders anyway. He'd used clever words to give his troops a hint, but refused to officially admit that this mission was bullshit; from there, he had all but told them to shut up and do what they're told.

I really wish everyone would take some form of legal class; if you did, you'll find out that when you "open the door" for your side, you automatically "open the door" for the their side.

When you give permission for a soldier to speak out for the war, you're also giving permission for a soldier to speak out against the war.

Do you really want that?

 

[dilloduck]

As Saving Private Ryan is about to reach the ranks of the Ten Commandments, as a annual televised event, you had foregotten it's most significant moment; well as far as I'm concerned. The scene in which the troops were debating the cause of the mission.

If you had paid attention to detail, you'd found out that the captain had spoken out in a manner which suggested that this mission was bullshit, but he's determined to carry out his orders anyway. He'd used clever words to give his troops a hint, but refused to officially admit that this mission was bullshit; from there, he had all but told them to shut up and do what they're told.

I really wish everyone would take some form of legal class; if you did, you'll find out that when you "open the door" for your side, you automatically "open the door" for the their side.

When you give permission for a soldier to speak out for the war, you're also giving permission for a soldier to speak out against the war.

Do you really want that?

I don't know what legal class you attended but I can assure you that the military has the legl authority to censor negative comments made by the troops. What I find more interesting is the fact that the troops who have returned (many injured) and are no longer in the military, have not joined the chorus of the libs to "send our troops home". They are the ones who are free to say whatever the would like about our presence in Iraq and all I hear from them is in support of our mission.

 

[Gabriella84]

The military has the right to censor any communications from the field of battle. That was why the practice of "imbedding" media members with troops in battle was so utterly bogus. Is anyone going to criticize the people that are responsible for watching their backs?

The reason why you don't hear much negative comment is that the "liberal" media doesn't condone it. I think I have mentioned before the Orange County families who wanted to hold a news conference after their kids died in Iraq. When the media found out that they were going to criticize the Bush administration, they went home.

Joining the military means you follow orders. If you join the military, obviously you believe in what you are doing. This is the fallacy of taking people who are on reserve and throwing them into battle. This is the "back door draft" that is commonly referred to.

There are military and their families with criticisms. You just don't hear from too often. But to say anyone shouldn't want their loved ones home as soon as possible is absurd.

 

[CSM]

The military has the right to censor any communications from the field of battle. That was why the practice of "imbedding" media members with troops in battle was so utterly bogus. Is anyone going to criticize the people that are responsible for watching their backs?
Hmmm...maybe there is soemthing to this....possibly a lesson here?

The reason why you don't hear much negative comment is that the "liberal" media doesn't condone it. I think I have mentioned before the Orange County families who wanted to hold a news conference after their kids died in Iraq. When the media found out that they were going to criticize the Bush administration, they went home. Maybe...just maybe...there isn't all that much negative comment to broadcast that is legitimate???

Joining the military means you follow orders. If you join the military, obviously you believe in what you are doing. This is the fallacy of taking people who are on reserve and throwing them into battle. This is the "back door draft" that is commonly referred to. I guess people in the reserves dont believe in what they are doing??? As for the "back door draft" crap...that is sooooo 60's and not relevant since the draft went away many years ago...sounds like something preached by hippies....

There are military and their families with criticisms. You just don't hear from too often. But to say anyone shouldn't want their loved ones home as soon as possible is absurd. I do not recall seeing anyone posting or implying that families SHOULD NOT want their loved ones to come home.

Once again, the poster expresses an opinion based on their personal experience with the military...which is exactly NONE.

 

[Gabriella84]

I've talk to many a military person. They are just not the ones selected to talk to the media. The ones that DON'T believe in what is going on in Iraq. Like the guy who shot his foot off so he could go home. Or the women who get pregnant so they can go home.
You just THINK you know everything.

 

[archangel]

The military has the right to censor any communications from the field of battle. That was why the practice of "imbedding" media members with troops in battle was so utterly bogus. Is anyone going to criticize the people that are responsible for watching their backs?

The reason why you don't hear much negative comment is that the "liberal" media doesn't condone it. I think I have mentioned before the Orange County families who wanted to hold a news conference after their kids died in Iraq. When the media found out that they were going to criticize the Bush administration, they went home.

Joining the military means you follow orders. If you join the military, obviously you believe in what you are doing. This is the fallacy of taking people who are on reserve and throwing them into battle. This is the "back door draft" that is commonly referred to.

There are military and their families with criticisms. You just don't hear from too often. But to say anyone shouldn't want their loved ones home as soon as possible is absurd.

a assinine and un informed comment that I have heard in a long time..first and foremost having grown up in the San Fernando Vallley...I am familiar with "Orange County"... for your info Gabby... it is a bastion of the GOP and extremely conservative...so to assume...as that is what you are doing...that residents would attack conservative values...is "Mickey Mouse" at best...assuming your first and only job was at "Disneyland"!!!!!!!

 

[hylandrdet]

Once again, the poster expresses an opinion based on their personal experience with the military...which is exactly NONE.

Well, I have military experience, I'm a gulf war one vet, whether you believe it or not. I believed in the first one, but not this one.

With that being said, if I were to be called back into action again, I would serve and serve proudly; why? Because I'm willing to support the troops the way you should support them; by fighting along their side and keeping them alive. I'll vow to shut up and take orders.

But I cannot serve; swolled lymph nodes have a way of scaring off recruiters.

Everybody seems to supports the troops and the war, but nobody want to take their asses over there. I once asked an eligible pro-war person to sign up. He said, "I this, I that, I,I,I,I,I!". I didn't know what he was doing, coming up with an excuse, or trying to spell Mississippi!!!

If you support this war, put your money where your mouth is and sign up! Otherwise, pray for them and stop creating divisions by saying that I'm a patriot and you're NOT!

 

[Gabriella84]

a assinine and un informed comment that I have heard in a long time..first and foremost having grown up in the San Fernando Vallley...I am familiar with "Orange County"... for your info Gabby... it is a bastion of the GOP and extremely conservative...so to assume...as that is what you are doing...that residents would attack conservative values...is "Mickey Mouse" at best...assuming your first and only job was at "Disneyland"!!!!!!!

The San Fernando Valley is NOT Orange County. It is Valley Girls and their vapid guys.
A lot of Orange County is very conservative. My fiance's family is staunchly conservative. But there are a LOT of people in OC, and they are not all conservative. Some are very radical. Some are very poor. You need to get down to Anaheim more often.
Where did you get this idea that I worked at Disneyland? Just because I lived within walking distance of the Mouse House doesn't mean I worked there.
So just because your job is Mickey Mouse doesn't mean I worked for him as well.

 

[pegwinn]

I've talk to many a military person. They are just not the ones selected to talk to the media. The ones that DON'T believe in what is going on in Iraq. Like the guy who shot his foot off so he could go home. Or the women who get pregnant so they can go home.
You just THINK you know everything.

I bolded the parts of your message so you can identify the practical application of the "word of the day"

Todays word boys and girls is COWARDICE

 

[CSM]

I've talk to many a military person. They are just not the ones selected to talk to the media. The ones that DON'T believe in what is going on in Iraq. Like the guy who shot his foot off so he could go home. Or the women who get pregnant so they can go home.
You just THINK you know everything.

I do know everything!

You talk to one crazy person who shoots himself in the foot and a female who chooses to get pregnant (lots of mental stability there, eh?) and then generalize based on that.

Let me make a few "generalizations". All college kids are doped up liberals who dont know crap...how's that? How about this one...the majority of college kids are spending mommy and daddy's money and have never really done an honest days work in their life....

Since I know the poster seldom gets the point, let me expound. It is a fact that SOME college kids use drugs; it is a fact that SOME college kids are liberals; it is a fact that SOME college kids are just plain stupid. It is a fact that SOME college kids have their tuition paid by their parents; it is a fact that SOME college kids have never worked. It is even a fact that SOME college students get pregnant. Having said all that, it would be easy to imply that the majority of college students are do not belong nor do they want to be in the halls of higher learning. To draw such a conclusion from the generalizations just made would be quite a stretch, would it not? Yet the poster would imply that based on a few private conversations with a couple of former soldiers, the entire US military is filled with folks who are malcontents.

The argument as presented holds no merit and makes the poster appear as a shrilling shrew screaming invective merely to bolster an over inflated ego which masks low self esteem.

 

[CSM]

Well, I have military experience, I'm a gulf war one vet, whether you believe it or not. I believed in the first one, but not this one.

With that being said, if I were to be called back into action again, I would serve and serve proudly; why? Because I'm willing to support the troops the way you should support them; by fighting along their side and keeping them alive. I'll vow to shut up and take orders.

But I cannot serve; swolled lymph nodes have a way of scaring off recruiters.

Everybody seems to supports the troops and the war, but nobody want to take their asses over there. I once asked an eligible pro-war person to sign up. He said, "I this, I that, I,I,I,I,I!". I didn't know what he was doing, coming up with an excuse, or trying to spell Mississippi!!!

If you support this war, put your money where your mouth is and sign up! Otherwise, pray for them and stop creating divisions by saying that I'm a patriot and you're NOT!

First of all , I was not referring to you in my post. Secondly, I do believe you are a vet. Third, I have served proudly for 30 years (I suppose you think CSM means Cats Saving Mice and the stripes near my posts are for the Podunk Drum and Bugle Corps???). Last, I never questioned anyones patriotism.

 

[Gabriella84]

CSM, thanks for those generalizations about college students. Unfortunately for your cause, none of those apply to me except the part about being a "liberal."
My parents have paid nothing for my college expenses. The state of California has paid for everything in the form of a complete four-year academic scholarship. I am sure there are others here who were helped out by their parents, though.
Serving in the military is a personal choice. Doesn't make you better than anyone else.

 

[Annie]

CSM, thanks for those generalizations about college students. Unfortunately for your cause, none of those apply to me except the part about being a "liberal."
My parents have paid nothing for my college expenses. The state of California has paid for everything in the form of a complete four-year academic scholarship. I am sure there are others here who were helped out by their parents, though.
Serving in the military is a personal choice. Doesn't make you better than anyone else.

Yeah, it does. Try and say thank you to those that allow a twit like you to be able to scream at the top of her lungs that the system sucks and so do the soldiers.

 

[pegwinn]

CSM, thanks for those generalizations about college students. Unfortunately for your cause, none of those apply to me except the part about being a "liberal."
My parents have paid nothing for my college expenses. The state of California has paid for everything in the form of a complete four-year academic scholarship. I am sure there are others here who were helped out by their parents, though.
Serving in the military is a personal choice. Doesn't make you better than anyone else.

So, since you got a free ride from Cali, how does it feel to be a drain on society. Obviously you haven't earned it. Going to college doesn't make you a better person. BTW being a cop, emt, teacher, firefighter, counselor, clergymember, or blood doner is a personal choice too and doesn't make anyone a better person. Just ask yourself, which of the above are willing to die to make sure you have the right to be a spoiled college kid?

I've talk to many a military person. They are just not the ones selected to talk to the media. The ones that DON'T believe in what is going on in Iraq. Like the guy who shot his foot off so he could go home. Or the women who get pregnant so they can go home.
You just THINK you know everything.

Oh yeah, I posted the word of the day as cowardice yesterday to describe the above two. Here's one for the books. A female Marine deployed to Iraq with the unit. Thanks to the "long goodbye" she was discovered to be pregnent incountry. Immediate launching back stateside. She was narrowly talked out of an abortion. She wanted to get back with her unit. Espirit de Corps is not only a Marine thing. But it looks like you haven't had that class yet.

 

[kurtsprincess]

CSM, thanks for those generalizations about college students. Unfortunately for your cause, none of those apply to me except the part about being a "liberal."
My parents have paid nothing for my college expenses. The state of California has paid for everything in the form of a complete four-year academic scholarship. I am sure there are others here who were helped out by their parents, though.
Serving in the military is a personal choice. Doesn't make you better than anyone else.

Gabby...........for someone who is going to school to learn how to relate to others, you are flunking out on this message board.

Are you going to try to help your patients by judging them the way you judge people here?

 

[kurtsprincess]

CSM, thanks for those generalizations about college students. Unfortunately for your cause, none of those apply to me except the part about being a "liberal."
My parents have paid nothing for my college expenses. The state of California has paid for everything in the form of a complete four-year academic scholarship. I am sure there are others here who were helped out by their parents, though.
Serving in the military is a personal choice. Doesn't make you better than anyone else.

You were correct Sgt. Major......she completely missed the point. :clap1: