Does true Conservatism still exist in America?

[editec]

Not even close. Social programs bailed us out of the Great Depression. They were at the time, a necessary means to an end. They have since morphed into bureaucratic nightmares that are bottomless pits and excuses to jack our taxes. None of them meet the needs for which they were originally designed.

Great truth in that.

You cannot survive on social security and you won't live long solely on medicare. You can't survive on a union retirement check.

Yes

They're just props for that self-perpetuating beast we call a government to rob at will.

Overstated given that government is spending much of the social security money on things other than its intended purpose. It's in part propping up YOUR retirement, for example.

So just what is it exactly they have done to make us great? I can make the money robbed from my check for social security and medicare work FAR better than its going to where it is.

I don't doubt that.

Still, how to we make the transition from what we have to something less costly?

Expecting people already dependent on those social programs that you and I BOTH AGREE are failing miserably, but are nevertheless keeping them off the streets isn't realistic.

Shall we set up the killing fields and cull the old, the weak, and the lame?

What is your solution out of this mess?

 

[Ravi]

No one can survive, probably, on social security alone. But it more than likely makes the difference between surviving and not for millions of elderly people.

Take away social programs and you create an entire class of people with no means at all that no longer spend money on anything. If you don't think that wouldn't destroy our economy you are pretty foolish.

What countries exist and thrive to our degree that don't have social programs?

 

[DiamondDave]

No ravi... those people create their situation... not the government...

Spending money on entitlements is not spending money on 'anything'... it is spending phantom money... it is not a good or service being bought... those good being bought by the poor will still be bought by the poor when they start working for their living, instead of waiting for it in the form of a free government check while their sit on their asses

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Its American ingenuity and the freedom to do so that has made this country great. As Gunny was saying, social programs turn into a bureaucratic quagmire where you have fat ticks thinking they're owed something.

 

[Ravi]

No ravi... those people create their situation... not the government...

Spending money on entitlements is not spending money on 'anything'... it is spending phantom money... it is not a good or service being bought... those good being bought by the poor will still be bought by the poor when they start working for their living, instead of waiting for it in the form of a free government check while their sit on their asses

I really think you guys exaggerate the number of people sitting around on their asses waiting for a free government check. Do you have any statistics on this?

Also, Social Security is not an entitlement. It's more like an insurance policy. No one is getting anything for free. In fact, welfare is actually also an insurance policy. There may be some people abusing the system, but it is available to any American in need, even those that scorn it.

Could we do a better job of implementing it? More than likely.

 

[Ravi]

Its American ingenuity and the freedom to do so that has made this country great.

Yes, that too. And a lot of social programs (free education, etc.) enable ingenuity and freedom.

 

[jreeves]

I really think you guys exaggerate the number of people sitting around on their asses waiting for a free government check. Do you have any statistics on this?

Also, Social Security is not an entitlement. It's more like an insurance policy. No one is getting anything for free. In fact, welfare is actually also an insurance policy. There may be some people abusing the system, but it is available to any American in need, even those that scorn it.

Could we do a better job of implementing it? More than likely.

Great example of the entitlements at work and it's great effect on our future.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs]YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy[/ame]

 

[DiamondDave]

I really think you guys exaggerate the number of people sitting around on their asses waiting for a free government check. Do you have any statistics on this?

Also, Social Security is not an entitlement. It's more like an insurance policy. No one is getting anything for free. In fact, welfare is actually also an insurance policy. There may be some people abusing the system, but it is available to any American in need, even those that scorn it.

Could we do a better job of implementing it? More than likely.

Yes... social security is something the working paid into..l. however, even those that never worked can cash out of it... so no, it is not like an insurance policy

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes, that too. And a lot of social programs (free education, etc.) enable ingenuity and freedom.

Nice slogan... it does not enable freedom, however..... and as for ingenuity, it would be there if they worked night time jobs to pay for their college as well

 

[Ravi]

Nice slogan... it does not enable freedom, however..... and as for ingenuity, it would be there if they worked night time jobs to pay for their college as well

Wow, that made me sound like a flaming commie.


I was replying to the Trout's Its American ingenuity and the freedom to do so that has made this country great.


The point I was trying to make was that social programs allow for American ingenuity and the freedom to have that ingenuity. Huh, that still sounds a bit awkward. IMO, there are no "self-made" men or women because each and every one of us benefits from one social program or more. Half of the stuff we come up with wouldn't be possible in a place like Ethiopia.