Does science trump philosophy?

[Boss]

"There is no god and there was no creation intelligent or otherwise.

The only meaning to the existence of homo sapiens is that at this point in time we have developed enough scientific toys to possibly extend our stay til the end of universal time when it is suggested that the cosmos collapses or perhaps and more likely artificially destroy ourselves long before the next great collision or certainly when our sun expires."

Congratulations! You have become a faith-based believer!

Nonsense.

Faith is a reaction to and equal to the size of the carrot offered. I do not believe in any science that promises me anything more than the benefits I receive from the medications science has delivered that are extending my life and making what it cannot cure at least make more bearable.

I believe that science has had a hand in the preservation of this country and our way of life. I certainly do not have faith in those that have positioned themselves the gate keepers of the scientific discoveries care about me personally.

We here in the USA have been fortunate to have ":won the lottery" in a sense. But still our leaders babble on and on about God and their enemies babble on about their Gods all of which is just so much nonsense to me.

If science was so beneficial to us as individuals we could have used this knowledge to radically reduce births of stupid people and really extend ours, those that understand that science offers more to us the living and our stays here on earth.

Sure science has won many skirmishes against the true enemy of humanity which is disease. Still we offer the drastically poor a benefit for spitting out more mouths to feed. We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves. When bad things happen to us our representatives say "pray" to God for the victims and their families. I am just worn out on the nonsense. I resent the exposing of the stupidity of faith as transference to some other "faith".

Sorry, I have no other faith to substitute for the ridiculous faith of religion. I do not step on cockroaches to make room for a different brand of vermin.

What you are expressing is your faith.

"...all of which is just so much nonsense to me."

That is a direct grammatical expression of YOUR faith. I highlighted it and pointed it out so that you can see, even when you are professing you do not have faith... you have faith. And by the way you actively express your faith in these threads when they always come up, is indicative of how much conviction you have in your faith.

Now, I can't actually speak for you because I don't know you... but what people of your faith typically have done is... they switched a faith in religion and God to a faith in Science and themselves. Science has become their Religion and they are their own God.

...to radically reduce births of stupid people...
...We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves....

These are jarring comments to me, someone who values life and believes all humans are created with God-given equality as humans. It is Freudian evidence of where the Faith of Science and Thyself eventually leads with regard to ethics and morality.

(BTW... Eugenics has been tried before.)

 

[HUGGY]

"There is no god and there was no creation intelligent or otherwise.

The only meaning to the existence of homo sapiens is that at this point in time we have developed enough scientific toys to possibly extend our stay til the end of universal time when it is suggested that the cosmos collapses or perhaps and more likely artificially destroy ourselves long before the next great collision or certainly when our sun expires."

Congratulations! You have become a faith-based believer!

Nonsense.

Faith is a reaction to and equal to the size of the carrot offered. I do not believe in any science that promises me anything more than the benefits I receive from the medications science has delivered that are extending my life and making what it cannot cure at least make more bearable.

I believe that science has had a hand in the preservation of this country and our way of life. I certainly do not have faith in those that have positioned themselves the gate keepers of the scientific discoveries care about me personally.

We here in the USA have been fortunate to have ":won the lottery" in a sense. But still our leaders babble on and on about God and their enemies babble on about their Gods all of which is just so much nonsense to me.

If science was so beneficial to us as individuals we could have used this knowledge to radically reduce births of stupid people and really extend ours, those that understand that science offers more to us the living and our stays here on earth.

Sure science has won many skirmishes against the true enemy of humanity which is disease. Still we offer the drastically poor a benefit for spitting out more mouths to feed. We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves. When bad things happen to us our representatives say "pray" to God for the victims and their families. I am just worn out on the nonsense. I resent the exposing of the stupidity of faith as transference to some other "faith".

Sorry, I have no other faith to substitute for the ridiculous faith of religion. I do not step on cockroaches to make room for a different brand of vermin.

What you are expressing is your faith.

"...all of which is just so much nonsense to me."

That is a direct grammatical expression of YOUR faith. I highlighted it and pointed it out so that you can see, even when you are professing you do not have faith... you have faith. And by the way you actively express your faith in these threads when they always come up, is indicative of how much conviction you have in your faith.

Now, I can't actually speak for you because I don't know you... but what people of your faith typically have done is... they switched a faith in religion and God to a faith in Science and themselves. Science has become their Religion and they are their own God.

...to radically reduce births of stupid people...
...We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves....

These are jarring comments to me, someone who values life and believes all humans are created with God-given equality as humans. It is Freudian evidence of where the Faith of Science and Thyself eventually leads with regard to ethics and morality.

(BTW... Eugenics has been tried before.)

I don't believe I am an evil person. Those comments are presented not as some political doctrine but only as an impression...a reflection.

Humanity in general is heading into a period where we must look honestly at what we are doing to ourselves. We don't have the luxury of acting irresponsibly. IMHO religion is an irresponsible path. We need to grow up. There is no Santa Claus. We cannot allow our future to be sabotaged by such obvious fraud.

When I see pictures of a woman with several starving children in a hovel among-st hundreds of like hovels my mind reels at the lack of duty she has shown to her first children. She has literally murdered several human beings just by becoming pregnant with no thought to the outcomes for these people she has brought into her world and reduced the chances of survival to each of her children with each one she adds to her burden and RESPONSIBILITY. This act of criminal willful ignorance egged on by organized religion must stop.

It is NOT the responsibility of the more responsible societies on the planet to continue to attempt to save "the starving children" shown on our TVs at 3 in the AM. I don't feel obligated to send 19 cents a day. I feel like the mother should be arrested and put in prison for gross criminal child neglect.

We need to start demanding that examples are made of this irresponsibility.

As much as I detest the Chinese one must look at what they as a society have done and are doing to put a curb on irresponsible reproduction. They too were a third world country destroying themselves from within by families intent on bearing sons as a means of elevating individual families sense of pride and in the process exploding the burden these desperately poor people had coping with feeding themselves let alone rising above just surviving and providing any means of these children having any meaningful life.

Now that the Chinese have gotten somewhat of a handle limiting the number of unwanted pregnancies they can start to develop the means to manage a possible meaningful future for the poorest of their population.

In any reasonable assessment China is a strong success in turning a disaster around. Much of the poor third world in Africa, South America and other like regions of the planet would do well looking at how China has dealt with managing population as a most valuable tool in bringing their people out of grinding poverty.

The first and most important thing any society can do is abandon religion or any factor that subverts attempts to bring it's people into a more responsible place.

 

[Unkotare]

Humanity in general is heading into a period where we must look honestly at what we are doing to ourselves. ....

As opposed to every other "period" in history?

 

[Unkotare]

As much as I detest the Chinese....

Why? Do you even know any Chinese people?

 

[Unkotare]

IMHO religion is an irresponsible path. We need to grow up. ....

That prejudice puts you in a very tiny, confused, irrelevant minority.

 

[Unkotare]

When I see pictures of a woman with several starving children in a hovel among-st hundreds of like hovels my mind reels at the lack of duty she has shown to her first children. ....

Because you are presumptuous and illogical.

 

[Unkotare]

She has literally murdered several human beings just by becoming pregnant....

That is obviously nonsense.

 

[HUGGY]

As much as I detest the Chinese....

Why? Do you even know any Chinese people?

Yes. Sort of. My family took in several Chinese families escaping Mao in the mid 50's.

My Karate sensai, Don Jackson, in the late 60's was a close friend with Bruce Lee. I have known several Caucasian people that have been to China. I have known several Chinese over the years, some that have lived in China..some that ave not. My Kung Foo/Tai Chi instructor, Dr Jonas Liu, in the mid 70's was Chinese.

I have to admit that I have not known any Chinese in the last 20 years.

Is there a minimum required number of personally known Chinese one must have encountered before qualifying to have the right to an opinion on China?

My comment "As much as I detest the Chinese" was probably not phrased as well as it could have been. I meant to say that I detest the ACTIONS of the Chinese government more than I detest any individual Chinese people.

 

[Unkotare]

My Karate sensai, Don Jackson, in the late 60's....

 

[Unkotare]

I have known several Caucasian people that have been to China. ....

 

[Unkotare]

My comment "As much as I detest the Chinese" was probably not phrased as well as it could have been. I meant to say that I detest the ACTIONS of the Chinese government more than I detest any individual Chinese people.

That certainly makes more sense.

 

[G.T.]

Science trumps philosophy when the 2 have reached an opposing conclusion on the same subject matter, yes.

 

[Boss]

"There is no god and there was no creation intelligent or otherwise.

The only meaning to the existence of homo sapiens is that at this point in time we have developed enough scientific toys to possibly extend our stay til the end of universal time when it is suggested that the cosmos collapses or perhaps and more likely artificially destroy ourselves long before the next great collision or certainly when our sun expires."

Congratulations! You have become a faith-based believer!

Nonsense.

Faith is a reaction to and equal to the size of the carrot offered. I do not believe in any science that promises me anything more than the benefits I receive from the medications science has delivered that are extending my life and making what it cannot cure at least make more bearable.

I believe that science has had a hand in the preservation of this country and our way of life. I certainly do not have faith in those that have positioned themselves the gate keepers of the scientific discoveries care about me personally.

We here in the USA have been fortunate to have ":won the lottery" in a sense. But still our leaders babble on and on about God and their enemies babble on about their Gods all of which is just so much nonsense to me.

If science was so beneficial to us as individuals we could have used this knowledge to radically reduce births of stupid people and really extend ours, those that understand that science offers more to us the living and our stays here on earth.

Sure science has won many skirmishes against the true enemy of humanity which is disease. Still we offer the drastically poor a benefit for spitting out more mouths to feed. We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves. When bad things happen to us our representatives say "pray" to God for the victims and their families. I am just worn out on the nonsense. I resent the exposing of the stupidity of faith as transference to some other "faith".

Sorry, I have no other faith to substitute for the ridiculous faith of religion. I do not step on cockroaches to make room for a different brand of vermin.

What you are expressing is your faith.

"...all of which is just so much nonsense to me."

That is a direct grammatical expression of YOUR faith. I highlighted it and pointed it out so that you can see, even when you are professing you do not have faith... you have faith. And by the way you actively express your faith in these threads when they always come up, is indicative of how much conviction you have in your faith.

Now, I can't actually speak for you because I don't know you... but what people of your faith typically have done is... they switched a faith in religion and God to a faith in Science and themselves. Science has become their Religion and they are their own God.

...to radically reduce births of stupid people...
...We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves....

These are jarring comments to me, someone who values life and believes all humans are created with God-given equality as humans. It is Freudian evidence of where the Faith of Science and Thyself eventually leads with regard to ethics and morality.

(BTW... Eugenics has been tried before.)

I don't believe I am an evil person. Those comments are presented not as some political doctrine but only as an impression...a reflection.

Humanity in general is heading into a period where we must look honestly at what we are doing to ourselves. We don't have the luxury of acting irresponsibly. IMHO religion is an irresponsible path. We need to grow up. There is no Santa Claus. We cannot allow our future to be sabotaged by such obvious fraud.

When I see pictures of a woman with several starving children in a hovel among-st hundreds of like hovels my mind reels at the lack of duty she has shown to her first children. She has literally murdered several human beings just by becoming pregnant with no thought to the outcomes for these people she has brought into her world and reduced the chances of survival to each of her children with each one she adds to her burden and RESPONSIBILITY. This act of criminal willful ignorance egged on by organized religion must stop.

It is NOT the responsibility of the more responsible societies on the planet to continue to attempt to save "the starving children" shown on our TVs at 3 in the AM. I don't feel obligated to send 19 cents a day. I feel like the mother should be arrested and put in prison for gross criminal child neglect.

We need to start demanding that examples are made of this irresponsibility.

As much as I detest the Chinese one must look at what they as a society have done and are doing to put a curb on irresponsible reproduction. They too were a third world country destroying themselves from within by families intent on bearing sons as a means of elevating individual families sense of pride and in the process exploding the burden these desperately poor people had coping with feeding themselves let alone rising above just surviving and providing any means of these children having any meaningful life.

Now that the Chinese have gotten somewhat of a handle limiting the number of unwanted pregnancies they can start to develop the means to manage a possible meaningful future for the poorest of their population.

In any reasonable assessment China is a strong success in turning a disaster around. Much of the poor third world in Africa, South America and other like regions of the planet would do well looking at how China has dealt with managing population as a most valuable tool in bringing their people out of grinding poverty.

The first and most important thing any society can do is abandon religion or any factor that subverts attempts to bring it's people into a more responsible place.

I'm not going to address most of what you wrote because I believe you are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you but I'm not here to do battle with your personal faith. There is one point I would like to address:

I don't believe I am an evil person. Those comments are presented not as some political doctrine but only as an impression...a reflection.

No rational person has ever believed they were evil. Hitler did not believe he was being evil.. he justified everything he did and thought it was for the betterment of mankind. So whether or not you believe you're an evil person is of no consequence to whether or not you ARE an evil person.

I realize those were your candid musings and not a political doctrine... do you think that makes it okay? How do you think such political doctrines come to be a reality? As I said, it is a Freudian look into the mind of someone who has no moral foundation rooted in spirituality. It is through Science in place of Religion and assuming God's authority that men justify all kinds of atrocity. If anything, it is proof of why we need God.

 

[Boss]

Science trumps philosophy when the 2 have reached an opposing conclusion on the same subject matter, yes.

Science does not conclude... EVER!

The very instant you have drawn conclusion... you stopped practicing science and began practicing faith. Science can do no work on a conclusion.

Science poses probabilities of possibilities. MAN takes those predictions and draws CONCLUSION.

 

[HUGGY]

"There is no god and there was no creation intelligent or otherwise.

The only meaning to the existence of homo sapiens is that at this point in time we have developed enough scientific toys to possibly extend our stay til the end of universal time when it is suggested that the cosmos collapses or perhaps and more likely artificially destroy ourselves long before the next great collision or certainly when our sun expires."

Congratulations! You have become a faith-based believer!

Nonsense.

Faith is a reaction to and equal to the size of the carrot offered. I do not believe in any science that promises me anything more than the benefits I receive from the medications science has delivered that are extending my life and making what it cannot cure at least make more bearable.

I believe that science has had a hand in the preservation of this country and our way of life. I certainly do not have faith in those that have positioned themselves the gate keepers of the scientific discoveries care about me personally.

We here in the USA have been fortunate to have ":won the lottery" in a sense. But still our leaders babble on and on about God and their enemies babble on about their Gods all of which is just so much nonsense to me.

If science was so beneficial to us as individuals we could have used this knowledge to radically reduce births of stupid people and really extend ours, those that understand that science offers more to us the living and our stays here on earth.

Sure science has won many skirmishes against the true enemy of humanity which is disease. Still we offer the drastically poor a benefit for spitting out more mouths to feed. We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves. When bad things happen to us our representatives say "pray" to God for the victims and their families. I am just worn out on the nonsense. I resent the exposing of the stupidity of faith as transference to some other "faith".

Sorry, I have no other faith to substitute for the ridiculous faith of religion. I do not step on cockroaches to make room for a different brand of vermin.

What you are expressing is your faith.

"...all of which is just so much nonsense to me."

That is a direct grammatical expression of YOUR faith. I highlighted it and pointed it out so that you can see, even when you are professing you do not have faith... you have faith. And by the way you actively express your faith in these threads when they always come up, is indicative of how much conviction you have in your faith.

Now, I can't actually speak for you because I don't know you... but what people of your faith typically have done is... they switched a faith in religion and God to a faith in Science and themselves. Science has become their Religion and they are their own God.

...to radically reduce births of stupid people...
...We seem to value stupid people more than ourselves....

These are jarring comments to me, someone who values life and believes all humans are created with God-given equality as humans. It is Freudian evidence of where the Faith of Science and Thyself eventually leads with regard to ethics and morality.

(BTW... Eugenics has been tried before.)

I don't believe I am an evil person. Those comments are presented not as some political doctrine but only as an impression...a reflection.

Humanity in general is heading into a period where we must look honestly at what we are doing to ourselves. We don't have the luxury of acting irresponsibly. IMHO religion is an irresponsible path. We need to grow up. There is no Santa Claus. We cannot allow our future to be sabotaged by such obvious fraud.

When I see pictures of a woman with several starving children in a hovel among-st hundreds of like hovels my mind reels at the lack of duty she has shown to her first children. She has literally murdered several human beings just by becoming pregnant with no thought to the outcomes for these people she has brought into her world and reduced the chances of survival to each of her children with each one she adds to her burden and RESPONSIBILITY. This act of criminal willful ignorance egged on by organized religion must stop.

It is NOT the responsibility of the more responsible societies on the planet to continue to attempt to save "the starving children" shown on our TVs at 3 in the AM. I don't feel obligated to send 19 cents a day. I feel like the mother should be arrested and put in prison for gross criminal child neglect.

We need to start demanding that examples are made of this irresponsibility.

As much as I detest the Chinese one must look at what they as a society have done and are doing to put a curb on irresponsible reproduction. They too were a third world country destroying themselves from within by families intent on bearing sons as a means of elevating individual families sense of pride and in the process exploding the burden these desperately poor people had coping with feeding themselves let alone rising above just surviving and providing any means of these children having any meaningful life.

Now that the Chinese have gotten somewhat of a handle limiting the number of unwanted pregnancies they can start to develop the means to manage a possible meaningful future for the poorest of their population.

In any reasonable assessment China is a strong success in turning a disaster around. Much of the poor third world in Africa, South America and other like regions of the planet would do well looking at how China has dealt with managing population as a most valuable tool in bringing their people out of grinding poverty.

The first and most important thing any society can do is abandon religion or any factor that subverts attempts to bring it's people into a more responsible place.

I'm not going to address most of what you wrote because I believe you are entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you but I'm not here to do battle with your personal faith. There is one point I would like to address:

I don't believe I am an evil person. Those comments are presented not as some political doctrine but only as an impression...a reflection.

No rational person has ever believed they were evil. Hitler did not believe he was being evil.. he justified everything he did and thought it was for the betterment of mankind. So whether or not you believe you're an evil person is of no consequence to whether or not you ARE an evil person.

I realize those were your candid musings and not a political doctrine... do you think that makes it okay? How do you think such political doctrines come to be a reality? As I said, it is a Freudian look into the mind of someone who has no moral foundation rooted in spirituality. It is through Science in place of Religion and assuming God's authority that men justify all kinds of atrocity. If anything, it is proof of why we need God.

I beg to disagree. One can develop a sound moral compass without using a God as a crutch. Science is certainly NOT a moral crutch.

I dispute that Hitler had no clue he was doing evil. My guess is that he JUSTIFIED what evil his leadership perpetrated as necessary.

 

[Boss]

I beg to disagree. One can develop a sound moral compass without using a God as a crutch. Science is certainly NOT a moral crutch.

I dispute that Hitler had no clue he was doing evil. My guess is that he JUSTIFIED what evil his leadership perpetrated as necessary.

Hey, you're the one who opined about how we ought to kill off the stupid people... I just pointed it out. This is where the human mind takes you when there is no moral foundation to reel you back in. You can SAY any goddamn thing you please, it doesn't mean it's true because you convinced yourself. One could potentially perform radical brain surgery without any medical knowledge whatsoever.... it's not recommended.

Hitler believed in the Final Solution... he did not think he was evil. Yes, he JUSTIFIED his evil acts... Evil people most often do... just as you can justify why we ought to kill off all the stupids. People who have a moral foundation based on a belief in something greater than man, tend to not have that problem. They tend to recognize evil for what it is and stand up for righteousness. Mind you, not ALL people do this... some pervert their religions into incarnations of evil in order to justify the evil, like the radical Muslims.

 

[G.T.]

Oh great, boss the fake smart narcissist is here to quibble over minutia fallacy after fallacy.

 

[G.T.]

Also - its very easy to have a moral foundation without believing in a greater entity grounding said foundation.

Evolutionary instincts coupled with the ability to reason is all that it takes.

 

[Unkotare]

Also - its very easy to have a moral foundation without believing in a greater entity grounding said foundation....

Is it easy? Think about what "morality" means.

 

[G.T.]

Also - its very easy to have a moral foundation without believing in a greater entity grounding said foundation....

Is it easy? Think about what "morality" means.

Yes, its quite easy.

Your instincts and your reasoning get you there.