Does anyone even care?

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by SpidermanTuba, Dec 21, 2005.

  1. SpidermanTuba
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    SpidermanTuba BANNED

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    Does anyone even care that the president has tossed the 4th amendment out of the window by authorizing searches of American citizens without warrants?
     
  2. MissileMan
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    MissileMan Senior Member

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    Did you mean electronic surveillance of American citizens who might have been in collusion with terrorist enemies?
     
  3. SpidermanTuba
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    SpidermanTuba BANNED

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    By your same logic, we shouldn't have to get warrants to wiretap the phone lines of suspected criminals, as long as the law enforcement agency doing the taps assures us they are only tapping the lines of suspected criminals.


    You seem to have trouble understanding the purpose of checks and balances in our government. The courts approve virtually every phone tap ever requested by any law enforcement agency. In fact in 2004 they approved them ALL. Furthermore, the law allows Bush to get warrants for taps which are time sensitive by getting the warrant in a reasonable amount of time AFTER the tap has already been done. So there is NO LEGITIMATE PURPOSE to not getting a warrant for these searches, provided of course, they really are being used just to monitor terrorist suspects.
     
  4. MissileMan
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    MissileMan Senior Member

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    If the courts are nothing more than a rubber stamp, what's your beef? Extreme times call for extreme measures. The President was given the "green light" by congress to use whatever force necessary to ensure the safety of the nation. IMO, that "green light" included surveillance. He was doing his job, and you'd be the first whiny ingrate to complain if he had been complacent and another attack had happened.
     
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  5. SpidermanTuba
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    SpidermanTuba BANNED

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    The courts are a check on the executive branch. The reason no wiretaps get turned down is because the law enforcement agencies asking for them know what consitututes cause for a wiretap and what doesn't and they know not to ask for something they won't get. So the only reason one would bypass a warrant is if one were asking to tap a phone for some reason other than to investigate criminals and terrorists.

    I'd like to see the bill you are referring to which grants the President the right to make the law up as he goes along. Last I checked the job of the executive was to UPHOLD the law of the land, not to break it.
     
  6. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    here is the text:

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    what proof have you that unreasonable searches have been executed upon citizens?

    does this right apply to those here illegally?

    does this right apply to those that desire to kill citizens?

    simply questions....that none will answer

    10-1 the subject will be changed
     
  7. SpidermanTuba
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    SpidermanTuba BANNED

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    The President is conducting wiretap searches of AMERICAN CITIZENS within the borders of the United States. You need a warrant to do this. The President knows this, otherwise he wouldn't have assured us in 2004 that he wasn't doing as such w/o a warrant!

    "Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. "

    My Gosh, was the President LYING in this statement? No, not George Bush! "Anytime" hmm... ANYTIME you hear about the government talking about wiretaps - it requires a court order. Surely, right NOW is a member of the set ANYTIME (draw a Venn diagram if it helps)
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html
     
  8. Mr. P
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    Mr. P Senior Member

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    The Foreign Intelligence Security Act permits the government to monitor foreign communications, even if they are with U.S. citizens -- 50 USC 1801, et seq. A FISA warrant is only needed if the subject communications are wholly contained in the United States and involve a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power.

    The reason the President probably had to sign an executive order is that the Justice Department office that processes FISA requests, the Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR), can take over 6 months to get a standard FISA request approved. It can become extremely bureaucratic, depending on who is handling the request. His executive order is not contrary to FISA if he believed, as he clearly did, that he needed to act quickly. The president has constitutional powers, too
    http://corner.nationalreview.com/05_12_11_corner-archive.asp#084896

    It looks like you may be confusing (surprise) the Patriot Act with the Foreign Intelligence Security Act.
     
  9. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    We're protected against unreasonable search and seizure. Tapping phone lines of suspected terrorist collaborators is reasonable in wartime. Choke on it, commie.
     
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  10. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    Excellent - that's signature material right there.. :D
     
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