Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care

[boedicca]

"All I am saying is let's take the example of Diabetes.........Right now if a family care physician works with his patient to modify diet, etc they might get reimbursed a pittance, but if that same diabetic ends up getting his foot amputated that's 30,000-50,000 the surgeon is reimbursed. Why not make sure we are also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation?"

Operative words, and of course he is right-on.

His operative words are completely inane and a strawman.

Diabetics get tons of care (if they seek it) to prevent the complications that lead to amputation. Considering the high rate of diabetes in the U.S., if what Obama claims is true, then we would see a huge number of amputees. We don't.

He also grossly inflated the fees, as has been refuted by the AMA and organizations for surgeons.

Obama makes up "facts" to demonize those who provide the care. What a leader....not.

 

[boedicca]

Take your pick. There are pages and pages relating incidents.
Doctors perform unnecessary surgery - Google Search

Non-responsive. Please provide some credibly studies instead of links regarding lawsuits. Any tort lawyer can exploit some unfortunate person to generate fees.

Just like John Edwards drove OBGYNs out of his state.

 

[MaggieMae]

I posted the Youtube clip in which you can hear him say it in his own words.

If a direct video quote isn't good enough for you, then so be it.

Now, please post your Plenty of Background Material that proves that doctors routinely perform unnecessary hysterectomies and tonsillectomies, full hip replacements, cesareans, and the like.

I just did. That you would even deny that unnecessary surgeries don't occur is itself absurd. In the same vein, would you deny that 99,000 people die unnecessarily because of hospital errors? As people stop using hospitals for their health care, hopefully that outrageous figure will come down also.

 

[MaggieMae]

Take your pick. There are pages and pages relating incidents.
Doctors perform unnecessary surgery - Google Search

Non-responsive. Please provide some credibly studies instead of links regarding lawsuits. Any tort lawyer can exploit some unfortunate person to generate fees.

Just like John Edwards drove OBGYNs out of his state.

I'm not about to spend hours finding links only to have you come right back and still never admit you're wrong. Sorry, go find another victim today. And by the way, in the video, Obama did not use the words "chopping off" feet in the ugly context you wrote. His point was hardly a "strawman argument." He was legitimately making the point that PREVENTION is the key.

 

[boedicca]

IOW - you made an unfounded accusation that you cannot back up.

There most likely are some unnecessary (in hindsight) procedures performed by doctors. Given the highly litigious nature of our society which increases the risk of a malpractice suit, it makes sense that doctors would err on the side of caution and perform surgery instead of "waiting and seeing" or prescribing drugs. The patient doesn't have to agree to the surgery, btw - but individual responsibility probably eludes you.

Obama himself has advocated handing out pain medication to the elderly instead of surgery.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo]Take A Pill[/ame]


Get ready for pills to be the standard under the regulations set by ObamaCare.

 

[MaggieMae]

IOW - you made an unfounded accusation that you cannot back up.

Unfounded? I just won't play your partisan game. I just knew you'd bring up tort reform. Gee, I wonder why doctors malpractice insurance is so high? Is it "unfounded"??

 

[Care4all]

IF YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA

SEEK UROLOGY CARE

ELSEWHERE



CHANGES TO YOUR HEALTHCARE

BEGIN RIGHT NOW

NOT IN FOUR YEARS.


So, he is telling his own patients that had sceduled appointments with him that come in through this entrance, to their appointments, to seek their urology care elsewhere.

He IS NOT SAYING that he is going on a cash basis as some defenders of him have implied.

 

[Ravi]

IF YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA

SEEK UROLOGY CARE

ELSEWHERE



CHANGES TO YOUR HEALTHCARE

BEGIN RIGHT NOW

NOT IN FOUR YEARS.


So, he is telling his own patients that had sceduled appointments with him that come in through this entrance, to their appointments, to seek their urology care elsewhere.

He IS NOT SAYING that he is going on a cash basis as some defenders of him have implied.

They can spin all they want, but that statement is him refusing care to patients that voted for Obama.

Now I wonder, can he tell if people voted for Obama by looking at them?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Here you go, in The One's own words:

Obama SPEAKS!


I didn't recall properly - he actually said $30,000 - $40,0000, not $20,000.

"All I am saying is let's take the example of Diabetes.........Right now if a family care physician works with his patient to modify diet, etc they might get reimbursed a pittance, but if that same diabetic ends up getting his foot amputated that's 30,000-50,000 the surgeon is reimbursed. Why not make sure we are also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation?"

Operative words, and of course he is right-on.

Except that if a Diabetic loses their foot it is not the endocrinologist or family doctor who would do the surgery. It pays them to keep seeing the patient every 3 months. Some Surgeon would make the big bucks.

 

[Coyote]

Take your pick. There are pages and pages relating incidents.
Doctors perform unnecessary surgery - Google Search

Non-responsive. Please provide some credibly studies instead of links regarding lawsuits. Any tort lawyer can exploit some unfortunate person to generate fees.

Just like John Edwards drove OBGYNs out of his state.

Unnecessary Surgery - NYTimes.com
Needless Surgery
Unnecessary Surgery: The Four Most Common Unwarranted Operations - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
Unnecessary surgery.

 

[boedicca]

^^^ More articles of anecdotal incidents and "estimates" all intended to support a narrative of "let's design our entire health care system around a few random incidents".

Case in point:

ONE CASE HISTORY:

Recurrent dizziness. Patient is terrified that he might be having a heart attack. Doctor had ordered a 24-hour ambulatory electrocardiogram, taken with a small portable device that keeps track of the heartbeat. When the patient returned to the office the next day for evaluation, the electrocardiogram showed dramatic fluctuations of the heartbeat: 130 beats a minute during activity, only 40 beats a minute when the patient ia asleep. During the time he's been monitored, the patient has not experienced any dizziness. THE DOCTOR RECOMMENDATION:

''You need a pacemaker.''

A pacemaker is, in fact, implanted the next day and the patient becomes a statistic: one of millions of Americans who have undergone unnecessary elective surgery - nonemergency procedures performed as alternatives to more conservative treatment....


The patient thought he had had a heart attack and tests showed an erratic heart beat.

If the doctor had not recommended the pacemaker and the man had died, the narrative would have been "incompetent doctor causes man to die by withholding pacemaker".

 

[MaggieMae]

Here you go, in The One's own words:

Obama SPEAKS!


I didn't recall properly - he actually said $30,000 - $40,0000, not $20,000.

"All I am saying is let's take the example of Diabetes.........Right now if a family care physician works with his patient to modify diet, etc they might get reimbursed a pittance, but if that same diabetic ends up getting his foot amputated that's 30,000-50,000 the surgeon is reimbursed. Why not make sure we are also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation?"

Operative words, and of course he is right-on.

Except that if a Diabetic loses their foot it is not the endocrinologist or family doctor who would do the surgery. It pays them to keep seeing the patient every 3 months. Some Surgeon would make the big bucks.

That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).

The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.

 

[MaggieMae]

^^^ More articles of anecdotal incidents and "estimates" all intended to support a narrative of "let's design our entire health care system around a few random incidents".

You're just full of all inclusive projections. No one ever said that, it is not what Obama implied, it is not what the "entire" health care system is all about. Fail.

 

[boedicca]

That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).

The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.

I call shenanigans.

I have a close family member who is a Type I. There are many resources for diabetics, including ones that help people who can't afford supplies get them at low and no cost.

Insurance is not Health Care.

 

[boedicca]

^^^ More articles of anecdotal incidents and "estimates" all intended to support a narrative of "let's design our entire health care system around a few random incidents".

You're just full of all inclusive projections. No one ever said that, it is not what Obama implied, it is not what the "entire" health care system is all about. Fail.

Obama himself engaged in the fear mongering of unsupported claims and anecdotal stories. The entire Dem debate prior to the televised vote was to hold up one sad sack person after another (i.e., the one who had to use her sister's dentures) after as scare tactics.

Their math didn't add up - the CBO score was cooked - so they had to resort to fear.

 

[SFC Ollie]

"All I am saying is let's take the example of Diabetes.........Right now if a family care physician works with his patient to modify diet, etc they might get reimbursed a pittance, but if that same diabetic ends up getting his foot amputated that's 30,000-50,000 the surgeon is reimbursed. Why not make sure we are also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation?"

Operative words, and of course he is right-on.

Except that if a Diabetic loses their foot it is not the endocrinologist or family doctor who would do the surgery. It pays them to keep seeing the patient every 3 months. Some Surgeon would make the big bucks.

That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).

The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.

My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.

And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.

 

[Coyote]

^^^ More articles of anecdotal incidents and "estimates" all intended to support a narrative of "let's design our entire health care system around a few random incidents".

Case in point:

From those sources.

One: In 2002, J. Bruce Moseley, currently a clinical associate professor at the Baylor Sports Medicine Institute in House, headed a randomized study to find out exactly how effective knee arthroscopies were. Osteoarthritis patients, prime candidates for arthroscopy, fared no better than patients who received a sham surgery. However, knee arthroscopy today remains among the top 10 outpatient procedures, with more than 650,000 surgeries performed yearly.


Two: Hysterectomy. This procedure ranks second behind a Caesarean section as the most commonly-performed surgery on women in the United States. About 600,000 hysterectomies are performed here each year. A 2000 study revealed that around 70 per cent of the hysterectomies in 9 Southern California managed-care facilities were inappropriately recommended. The most common mistake cited was physicians' failure to try less-invasive and safer approaches first.

Three: Angioplasty. A study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine suggested that angioplasty for patients not having a heart attack will not help them and might even cause some harm. Many did as well on medical therapy such as aspirin, blood thinners, and drugs to lower cholesterol. This trial suggested if the procedure was performed at least three days after a heart attack, it provided no help.



Exactly what "few random incidents" are you referring too in your own dishonest narrative?

 

[Maple]

MOUNT DORA — A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care "elsewhere."

The sign reads: "If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years."



I love stories like this

Obama health care supporters: Florida doctor tells Obama health care supporters to go elsewhere - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

I love it, my doctor is threatening to retire early and probably will because of Obamacare.

 

[Maple]

Except that if a Diabetic loses their foot it is not the endocrinologist or family doctor who would do the surgery. It pays them to keep seeing the patient every 3 months. Some Surgeon would make the big bucks.

That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).

The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.

My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.

And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.

The focus most definitely has not been on JOBS, it's been on the takeover of 6% of our economy.

 

[Immanuel]

That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).

The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.

My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.

And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.

The focus most definitely has not been on JOBS, it's been on the takeover of 6% of our economy.

6%?

Don't you mean 1/6th as in almost 17%?

Immie