Do You Understand capitalism?

[SavannahMann]

I do. get rich off your workers then proceed to fuck them out of their union, their benefits and their retirement, then build shit as cheaply as fucking possible to last just long enough that you cant bring it back while charging you up the ass for the same product that that employer fired his workforce and moved to china for. To bilk and screw the public by taking all consumer protections and removing all responsibility from their actions whatever they might be all the while getting tax cuts and subsidies and "incentives" from our government they bought off by the transfer of wealth from a corrupt capitalistic system.
There.

It is said that Democracy is the least worst political system. It is hard to argue that with world history as a guide.

By the same token, Capitalism is the least worst economic system. China has flourished because they abandoned the pure socialist model. Venezuela is in ruins and ripe for a mass uprising and revolution because it has not abandoned the pure socialist idea.

Karl Marx had one fatal flaw in his theory. It was that Labor was equal, and all labor was the same. The idea that value is equated to the amount of labor is laughable.

Let me explain. I have a friend who was a chef. Literally a trained chef. He is a much better cook than I am. If you handed us both the same ingredients his result would be far superior than my own effort. All the hours in the world by my hand would not equal his effort, which would be done more quickly.

He has a talent I do not have. Even should I go through the same training he would be better.

The same is true of any endeavor. There are good pilots, bad pilots, and great pilots. Take a dozen people and put them through the same training with the same trainers. One will be better. That one has an innate talent that is explained only as god given talent.

This is where socialism falls down. It is not set up to recognize the talent that some have and others do not. Love of the activity and training does not make up for it.

Communism is another flawed system. It falls down after a few dozen people. A small community can run as a commune. A larger community can't.

So we are left with Capitalism. It sucks, but it sucks less than any other system. If you want to show me a better system, I'm willing to listen and consider. But merely screaming that capitalism sucks doesn't address the even worse flaws in the alternative systems. The flaws in capitalism are there and I'll agree to that. Yet the alternatives are even worse.

 

[Iceweasel]

How could it destroy itself if it couldn't exist? What planet are you on?

Did I say it couldn't exist? Ah, no. I said no one has such a thing. When are you going to learn to read?

Learn to understand your own words. If capitalism cannot exist without any regulations then obviously no one has it or ever has. So you said nothing. Idiot.

Unregulated capitalism is possible but no one has it, it would be a disaster, because - it would be a disaster. What's possible doesn't mean - desirable.

You can't offer an example of "unregulated capitalism" nor can you explain how it could work. The definition for unregulated systems is anarchy.

Unregulated capitalism is the black market, loan-sharking, smuggling, etc. and while those all exist no nation bases its economy on that. That's also - not anarchy.

Wrong. Even the black market has rules, you don't pay $10 for a million dollar object.

Capitalism is an economy based on private ownership and the definition says nothing about morality, fairness or anything else. Economies by definition cannot exist without standards. Unregulated "capitalism" would indeed be anarchy. No rules, no regulations. A Mad Max movie.

 

[Tehon]

I do. get rich off your workers then proceed to fuck them out of their union, their benefits and their retirement, then build shit as cheaply as fucking possible to last just long enough that you cant bring it back while charging you up the ass for the same product that that employer fired his workforce and moved to china for. To bilk and screw the public by taking all consumer protections and removing all responsibility from their actions whatever they might be all the while getting tax cuts and subsidies and "incentives" from our government they bought off by the transfer of wealth from a corrupt capitalistic system.
There.

It is said that Democracy is the least worst political system. It is hard to argue that with world history as a guide.

By the same token, Capitalism is the least worst economic system. China has flourished because they abandoned the pure socialist model. Venezuela is in ruins and ripe for a mass uprising and revolution because it has not abandoned the pure socialist idea.

Karl Marx had one fatal flaw in his theory. It was that Labor was equal, and all labor was the same. The idea that value is equated to the amount of labor is laughable.

Let me explain. I have a friend who was a chef. Literally a trained chef. He is a much better cook than I am. If you handed us both the same ingredients his result would be far superior than my own effort. All the hours in the world by my hand would not equal his effort, which would be done more quickly.

He has a talent I do not have. Even should I go through the same training he would be better.

The same is true of any endeavor. There are good pilots, bad pilots, and great pilots. Take a dozen people and put them through the same training with the same trainers. One will be better. That one has an innate talent that is explained only as god given talent.

This is where socialism falls down. It is not set up to recognize the talent that some have and others do not. Love of the activity and training does not make up for it.

Communism is another flawed system. It falls down after a few dozen people. A small community can run as a commune. A larger community can't.

So we are left with Capitalism. It sucks, but it sucks less than any other system. If you want to show me a better system, I'm willing to listen and consider. But merely screaming that capitalism sucks doesn't address the even worse flaws in the alternative systems. The flaws in capitalism are there and I'll agree to that. Yet the alternatives are even worse.

I think you misunderstand Marx's labour theory of value. The theory doesn't say that commodities are valued by actual amounts of labour required to create the commodity. The theory holds that it is the socially necessary amount of labour needed that creates the value of the commodity. It is an averaging that determines the value based on the socially available means. New technologies become available that reduces the amount of labor required thus lowering the price.