Do you believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

[KittenKoder]

Care Kitten does not want to believe and is ACTIVELY working against anyone believing. Nothing we say will change her mind. She has been given the tools and not only refuses to accept them but actively works to corrupt others and make them not believe.

Robert has stated he does not believe in the Bible or that Jesus is the Son of God , all he believes is that Jesus was a man. Yet he claims he is a Christian and he too works to subvert others from their belief. Then we have Red, I am not sure what his game is. Other then he does not really believe that Satan exists. He does not believe that people can and do work in Satan's interests most without even knowing it.

*grins* No, I believe in gods and magic just like you, I just believe in different ones. I don't however expect anyone else to believe the same ones I do not how I believe. Also I do not wish to force anyone to follow my religious ideals by using the law, nor do I use my beliefs as facts in debates of science, I use facts.

 

[Care4all]

Remember also that they had to be translated twice before even the first English version, the King James is not the first English version either but the third. Every book was written in a different language then when compiled into the christian bible parts were removed and then translated to Greek ... then English. Now also they have at least three 'modern' translations *eye roll* and each has more specific wording for parts that were once open to interpretation. Then when translated from English to other languages it is also re-interpreted due to linguistic differences (the Chinese version makes almost no sense at all and I had to give that one up completely). Then you add in the multiple bibles from other religions that claim to be the one true book of some god or gods ... there are thousands of books that could possibly be the one true one in reality. Each has different teachings and different ideals, though the christian bible usually keeps a basic outline throughout all the translations it has very little fact in it regardless of which version you use. The parts they took out I believe were the real facts, and all they kept in were legends and palms, nothing more.

The Christian Bible, is the same in every version, other than the Catholics accepting 3 old testament books that the Protestant versions did not view as inspired.

Please, here is a link for every version in every language of the Bible at this link....

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Matthew 5;

on the drop down window where the version of the Bible is listed, you can select in any version of the Bible you want, per passage.....and EVERY ONE OF THEM per passage will state the same thing....it may be worded different, but the meaning of each is the same....please TRY IT, instead of just saying something that is clearly not true?

care

 

[KittenKoder]

The Christian Bible, is the same in every version, other than the Catholics accepting 3 old testament books that the Protestant versions did not view as inspired.

Please, here is a link for every version in every language of the Bible at this link....

BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Matthew 5;

on the drop down window where the version of the Bible is listed, you can select in any version of the Bible you want, per passage.....and EVERY ONE OF THEM per passage will state the same thing....it may be worded different, but the meaning of each is the same....please TRY IT, instead of just saying something that is clearly not true?

care

Um ... it is impossible to obtain three versions, they were destroyed a long time ago.

 

[YWN666]

no

 

[ABikerSailor]

The Christian Bible, is the same in every version, other than the Catholics accepting 3 old testament books that the Protestant versions did not view as inspired.

Please, here is a link for every version in every language of the Bible at this link....

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Matthew 5;

on the drop down window where the version of the Bible is listed, you can select in any version of the Bible you want, per passage.....and EVERY ONE OF THEM per passage will state the same thing....it may be worded different, but the meaning of each is the same....please TRY IT, instead of just saying something that is clearly not true?

care

Actually, there are several different versions of the Bible. Want to find out how many different ways things can be said? Watch the God's Learning Channel, and look for a program that comes on Sundays around 6 pm CST, called "Hidden in the Hebrew".

Now, what Mr. Harel does is take Bible verses from the Old Testament, shows you what the original Hebrew stated, and then shows you what all the other variants in the Bible have to say. You want to know where the most differences in Bibles are? Generally the first 5 books of Moses are where the most noticeable differences are.

Nope......try again......the Bible when it started was written in Hebrew, then was translated into Greek, and from Greek, into Latin and English.

You don't think that with a trail like that, there's not going to be any mistranslations?

If so.....you're stupider than you look.

 

[Care4all]

Actually, there are several different versions of the Bible. Want to find out how many different ways things can be said? Watch the God's Learning Channel, and look for a program that comes on Sundays around 6 pm CST, called "Hidden in the Hebrew".

Now, what Mr. Harel does is take Bible verses from the Old Testament, shows you what the original Hebrew stated, and then shows you what all the other variants in the Bible have to say. You want to know where the most differences in Bibles are? Generally the first 5 books of Moses are where the most noticeable differences are.

Nope......try again......the Bible when it started was written in Hebrew, then was translated into Greek, and from Greek, into Latin and English.

You don't think that with a trail like that, there's not going to be any mistranslations?

If so.....you're stupider than you look.

now ABS sweetheart, I am not here arguing the finite points that you make and am very interested in some of the things i have seen you debate and argue for on other religious threads that you have participated in.

And i have no doubt that many have tried to ''dick'' with the Bible, for their own purposes and humanly selfish needs because the Bible itself warns us of such happening...words being taken in or taken out of Scripture, and i do not believe we would have been warned to heed such if there wasn't a chance of it happening.

What I am arguing and i believe Kitten is arguing...... is whether the American Standard, or New international, or New King James, or the Amplified or the original King James version etc etc etc of Bibles varies so much so, to give a different message of the passage itself....

And, since I often read passages in every version available in English on the net quite often, I have found very little difference in each version.

This is NOT to say that certain books of the Bible that might have been so called "inspired" were not left out of the Bible intentionally, which skewed our thinking from that point forward, based on what was left for us to read as inspired text.

I have ruled NOTHING out.

Merry Christmas ABS, and sincerely so!

Care

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, on the programs that I've seen Uri Harel do thus far, he's been working through Genesis, and I can tell you, depending on the KJV, or the New American Standard, sometimes they used different words to describe the same thing, and some of them can be taken quite differently.

Check out the Hidden in the Hebrew program sometime. I think you'd find in pretty interesting, and, it's only 30 min.

 

[Avatar4321]

Considering we could impregnate virgins in this day and age with modern technology it seems foolish to believe that an All powerful creater couldnt do it millinium ago.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Considering we could impregnate virgins in this day and age with modern technology it seems foolish to believe that an All powerful creater couldnt do it millinium ago.

Okay.....now since God created the Universe, that would mean that He has technology far beyond even what we have today.

We can do in-vitro fertilization of humans today, and, we also have drugs that make people think something else is happening to them (think anesthesia in the operating room).

What's to say that some super advanced being didn't stop down on Earth, drugged Mary (which accounts for the mystical experience of the angels talking to her), and did an in-vitro fertilization of Mary with God's DNA, which would account for Jesus being able to perform miracles?

 

[sky dancer]

I'm disappointed that we cannot discuss the deeper meaning of virgin birth, because there are so many who choose to believe the Bible literally.

It's just a missed opportunity.

I love Bible stories as wisdom teaching and allegory. Looking for a Christian who can handle symbology, and wisdom, as well as knowing the Bible teachings.

That would be a fascinating discussion, IMO. It would be great to discuss translations and how they alter the meaning, with Christians who don't feel threatened or insulted by such a discussion.

I like to talk about religion, mine and everyone else's. It's interesting. I like to see where we can find common ground and where we hold to the teachings, with faith and just rest there.

It's not necessary to mock someone else's beliefs. The point is there is a variety of ways to interpret the Bible and every other sacred book that forms the basis for a spiritual practice.

If we can't ask and answer questions of each other, we just get bogged down with insults and reactions.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Looking for a Christian who can handle symbology, and wisdom, as well as knowing the Bible teachings.

That would be a fascinating discussion, IMO.

Almost sounds like a theological personals ad Sky.

What has 2 thumbs and can do that?

<--------Rob Murphy.....how ya doing?

 

[sky dancer]

Yes. It is like a want ad, Rob. Makes me want to burst out into a chorus of 'looking for love in all the wrong places'.

I don't know if anyone here falls into that category. Secure Christian, interested in interfaith dialogue with Buddhist. LOL

Opposable thumbs and a working knowledge of the G spot and you've got it made!

 

[Shogun]

Considering we could impregnate virgins in this day and age with modern technology it seems foolish to believe that an All powerful creater couldnt do it millinium ago.

if only that "all powerful creator" were as tangible as our modern technology, eh?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Will you accept a Christian Taoist with Jewish understanding?

Besides.......I LIKE Buddhists!

 

[AllieBaba]

Sure, if the Virgin Mary was a worm or a plant.

Parthenogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are several other reasons to believe it wasn't a virgin birth.

Some other facts is that Mary had children other then Jesus, and yes she did have sex with Joseph at some point.

I do realize that it could be meant as "They didn't have sex before she got pregnant" so therefore it's a Virgin birth but there are plenty of other explainations..

Seriously though, can't see why not..

However, being the Word, who was with God in the beginning, Jesus was God in carnate. You're just projecting your own confused mental situation onto a perfect being. Just because we aren't perfect doesn't mean Christ wasn't.

And the bible makes absolutely no bones about the fact that Jesus had brothers and probably sisters as well.

Mary ran the chance of being killed for her alleged transgression, if it wasn't believed. Not only was it a killing (worst case scenario, it's true, but a very real one) offense to have sex before marriage, it was HERESY to claim you were pregnant with the son of God.

Joseph didn't believe her at first...but after being visited by an angel he changed his mind. I think I would, too.

As far as being "fucked up" at 12, I don't think he could have been too fucked up if he was teaching in the Temple at that age, which he was. Nor do his teachings sound like the ramblings of a fucked up person.

 

[sky dancer]

Will you accept a Christian Taoist with Jewish understanding?

Besides.......I LIKE Buddhists!

Of course, Christian Taoist with Jewish understanding, sounds like you have some interesting POV to offer.

And you LIKE Buddhists!

 

[Care4all]

Symbolism is a very big part of the Bible itself and pretty important.

Dragon = Satan
The Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns=the antichrist system
10= government
7=complete
the 11th horn in Daniel=The Antichirst
the woman dressed in scarlet and purple riding the Beast=mystery Babylon, the new Babylon
6=man
Parables in general....


And those are not even the tip of the iceberg....symbolism is rampant throughout the Bible imho and very important for us that do want to understand it in full to read the history of the time... to understand it better!

 

[sky dancer]

Symbolism is important in my path too. The Lotus, for example. Is a symbol of our potential as human beings, our own Buddha nature.

It is the pureset of flowers, yet is is born in the mud.

What do you focus on in your spirituality? The positive or the negative? Is everyone outside of your own path a devil?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well.....ya know......Jesus was a Jew, and the Jewish Rabbis taught their people via parables, which is an allegorical story.

YES.......there IS symbolism in the Bible.

Matter of fact, most of it isn't supposed to be taken literally, especially in the Old Testament. Check with a rabbi on that one.

 

[sky dancer]

Check with a Rabbi. Good advice. I think that's the problem with a couple of the Christian paths--no rabbi's, no authentic, living teachers in the tradition. Broken lineages. Where are the living wisdom masters in Christianity?

Where are the Christ-like Christians?