Do you believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

[editec]

If you're going to be a Christian, you can't pick and choose what to believe and what not to believe.

Yes, you can. In fact you really have no coice BUT to pick and choose.

If you're a Christian, you really have very little choice since Christianity itself is divided on such basic issues as virgin birth, trinity, devinity of Jesus, sacrement, and so forth.

It completely astounds me how few Christians I met really seem to understand that obvious fact.

They all seem to have their particular laundry list of things that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE to be in their special Christian club.

Are they unaware that other self proclaiming Christians do not believe all those things?

Apparently, as we can see from Xisted's statement, most of them are unaware of the wide spectrum of Christian beliefs..

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes, you can. In fact you really have no coice BUT to pick and choose.

If you're a Christian, you really have very little choice since Christianity itself is divided on such basic issues as virgin birth, trinity, devinity of Jesus, sacrement, and so forth.

It completely astounds me how few Christians I met really seem to understand that obvious fact.

They all seem to have their particular laundry list of things that ALL CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE to be in their special Christian club.

Are they unaware that other self proclaiming Christians do not believe all those things?

Apparently, as we can see from Xisted's statement, most of them are unaware of the wide spectrum of Christian beliefs..

Another idiot. You do understand where the CHRIST in Christian comes from? Who Christ is? One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in Jesus CHRIST. One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in the Holy Bible. They can argue about which version may be correct but they can not claim the entire thing is not what it is.

Are you now going to claim a Muslim can believe Mohammad was not the Prophet of God and that the Koran is full of misinformation and lies?

 

[dilloduck]

Another idiot. You do understand where the CHRIST in Christian comes from? Who Christ is? One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in Jesus CHRIST. One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in the Holy Bible. They can argue about which version may be correct but they can not claim the entire thing is not what it is.

Are you now going to claim a Muslim can believe Mohammad was not the Prophet of God and that the Koran is full of misinformation and lies?

The Bible is a collection of works that was put together by men. That it what the entire thing is. Jesus made it pretty simple on how to be a believer and the book wasn't even written or compiled while he was alive.

 

[KittenKoder]

Another idiot. You do understand where the CHRIST in Christian comes from? Who Christ is? One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in Jesus CHRIST. One can not be a Christian and claim they do not believe in the Holy Bible. They can argue about which version may be correct but they can not claim the entire thing is not what it is.

Are you now going to claim a Muslim can believe Mohammad was not the Prophet of God and that the Koran is full of misinformation and lies?

Just more proof that you don't like fact. It's impossible to follow everything in the christian bible word for word. The christian bible contradicts itself more than any other bible I have read. Now, if you follow your christs teaching (the fellow named Jesus) then you have to be a liberal but not an extremist.

 

[dilloduck]

Just more proof that you don't like fact. It's impossible to follow everything in the christian bible word for word. The christian bible contradicts itself more than any other bible I have read. Now, if you follow your christs teaching (the fellow named Jesus) then you have to be a liberal but not an extremist.

I gotta think that the last thing Jesus gave a damn about was what his political leanings were.

 

[KittenKoder]

I gotta think that the last thing Jesus gave a damn about was what his political leanings were.

Most likely, but he did not like extremes either. Also the way moderate liberals act these days match his ideals much better than any other political view, so logic dictates that if he did it would be their parties he would have been a part of.

 

[dilloduck]

Most likely, but he did not like extremes either. Also the way moderate liberals act these days match his ideals much better than any other political view, so logic dictates that if he did it would be their parties he would have been a part of.

Great--then I can assume the liberals will start forgiving the Bush administration any day now.

 

[KittenKoder]

Great--then I can assume the liberals will start forgiving the Bush administration any day now.

*shrugs* Have no idea ... I am not a firm believer in forgiveness myself, I believe in justice pure and simple, but then I am not a christian.

 

[dilloduck]

*shrugs* Have no idea ... I am not a firm believer in forgiveness myself, I believe in justice pure and simple, but then I am not a christian.

Obviously---. As is anyone who thinks there is a political correlation to political leanings.

 

[KittenKoder]

Obviously---. As is anyone who thinks there is a political correlation to political leanings.

Um ... huh?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Bible is a collection of works that was put together by men. That it what the entire thing is. Jesus made it pretty simple on how to be a believer and the book wasn't even written or compiled while he was alive.

And yet it IS the holy book of the CHRISTIAN FAITH. I guess you also missed the part where the child in question said he does not believe in Jesus Christ as anything other than a man.

Christians may argue about whether all the books are there or whether this or that translation is correct, but ALL Christian religions have as the Holy book, the Bible. Or perhaps you can name for me one that does not?

Also as to MAN putting the book together that too is covered in the Bible. The books were divinely inspired as was the decision on what Books would be used. And while you may have a very minor point with the New Testament the Old is another Story. Jesus believed in the Old Testament and preached the New Testament.

Or are you too going to claim one can be a CHRISTIAN and not believe in CHRIST?

 

[Care4all]

Just more proof that you don't like fact. It's impossible to follow everything in the christian bible word for word. The christian bible contradicts itself more than any other bible I have read. Now, if you follow your christs teaching (the fellow named Jesus) then you have to be a liberal but not an extremist.

The Christian Bible, the New Testament, does not contradict itself in any manner that i have been able to find. Perhaps you just do not understand it, like many people, especially in the way it is written?

The message is clear....we are ALL sinners, we are all undeserving of meeting or seeing a pure God when we move on in to the next world, and none of us would "make it there" if it were not for Jesus Christ being sacrificed for our own transgressions....

And a message of forgiveness for sinners is divine....

there are a whole bunch of stories that the Bible does go in to regarding sinful acts not deserving of heaven...like it would be easier for a camel to make it through an eye of a needle than a rich man to earn his way to Heaven, and stories that talk about murderers and adulterers and their fate of separation from God once they pass on and many many things that APPEAR to be saying that those that do these sins will go to the proverbial hell....

But if you read these passages in full.....the true message of these stories is that all of us sinners, no matter the sin, are undeserving of Heaven WITHOUT the saving Grace of Jesus and His sacrifice for us.

Christ's message wasn't about pointing out sin...that is what the old testament did....Christ's message was about forgiveness of sins, through Him.

Some Christians and non Christians like to take all of the "no, nos" and point out how we will be going to hell for them, but this is not what the new testament says...this is not what those stories regarding different sinners was about...it was about the message that through the belief in Christ and His sacrifice, ALL SINNERS can be saved, through Him....and His forgiveness....imho.

care

 

[KittenKoder]

And yet it IS the holy book of the CHRISTIAN FAITH. I guess you also missed the part where the child in question said he does not believe in Jesus Christ as anything other than a man.

Christians may argue about whether all the books are there or whether this or that translation is correct, but ALL Christian religions have as the Holy book, the Bible. Or perhaps you can name for me one that does not?

Also as to MAN putting the book together that too is covered in the Bible. The books were divinely inspired as was the decision on what Books would be used. And while you may have a very minor point with the New Testament the Old is another Story. Jesus believed in the Old Testament and preached the New Testament.

Or are you too going to claim one can be a CHRISTIAN and not believe in CHRIST?

Have you read all the versions? They are each very different from the other now, and those are just the ones recently written in the last decade. Fact of the matter, if you follow a book just because the book itself claims to be the only truth, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you, really cheap to for being right on the beach.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Have you read all the versions? They are each very different from the other now, and those are just the ones recently written in the last decade. Fact of the matter, if you follow a book just because the book itself claims to be the only truth, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you, really cheap to for being right on the beach.

Again besides the point. One can not be a Christian and claim not to believe in the Bible or in Christ. Also you are aware the Bible and God already covered the problem of false bibles?

 

[KittenKoder]

Again besides the point. One can not be a Christian and claim not to believe in the Bible or in Christ. Also you are aware the Bible and God already covered the problem of false bibles?

LOL ... in WHICH version of the christian bible? Then also EVERY bible for almost all religions says the EXACT same thing. Which is it? If one book can be 'divinely inspired' then why not other books? There are many christs (it's not a name), so are all those religions christian to just because they follow a christ, just ones with different names. So ... you spoke directly to your god and he actually told you in person all this to? Hmm ... perhaps you should have him show up to everyone else because it seems silly to expect others to believe just one persons words. "The question is never whether someone IS lying, but why."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are lost. I am sorry I can not help you. Robert is lost also. As are many people. However all I can say is that you can repent, ask forgiveness and be forgiven.

Read 2 Timothy all of 3 and 4. Read the book of John. It is never to late.

 

[Care4all]

Have you read all the versions? They are each very different from the other now, and those are just the ones recently written in the last decade. Fact of the matter, if you follow a book just because the book itself claims to be the only truth, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you, really cheap to for being right on the beach.

There is no difference, or very little difference other than a word or two as descriptions in the different variations of the Bible, other than a few extra books that are in the Catholic versions verses the Protestant versions.....

The King James version of the Bible is known to be the most accurate in the translation of the Bible, word for word, but basically all versions are the same in meaning, passage for passage.

Here is an example:

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]
Matthew 5 (New International Version)

Matthew 5
The Beatitudes
1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

that was the new international version, and here is the king james version, there IS NO DIFFERENCE in meaning, between the Bibles kitten, at least not to any degree that makes each Christian Bible different from one another...

How each Christian denomination translates the inspired Word is where the division among denominations come in to play, but not really the Bible itself.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]
Matthew 5 (King James Version)

Matthew 5

1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Care

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Care Kitten does not want to believe and is ACTIVELY working against anyone believing. Nothing we say will change her mind. She has been given the tools and not only refuses to accept them but actively works to corrupt others and make them not believe.

Robert has stated he does not believe in the Bible or that Jesus is the Son of God , all he believes is that Jesus was a man. Yet he claims he is a Christian and he too works to subvert others from their belief. Then we have Red, I am not sure what his game is. Other then he does not really believe that Satan exists. He does not believe that people can and do work in Satan's interests most without even knowing it.

 

[KittenKoder]

There is no difference, or very little difference other than a word or two as descriptions in the different variations of the Bible, other than a few extra books that are in the Catholic versions verses the Protestant versions.....

The King James version of the Bible is known to be the most accurate in the translation of the Bible, word for word, but basically all versions are the same in meaning, passage for passage.

Here is an example:



that was the new international version, and here is the king james version, there IS NO DIFFERENCE in meaning, between the Bibles kitten, at least not to any degree that makes each Christian Bible different from one another...

How each Christian denomination translates the inspired Word is where the division among denominations come in to play, but not really the Bible itself.



Care

Remember also that they had to be translated twice before even the first English version, the King James is not the first English version either but the third. Every book was written in a different language then when compiled into the christian bible parts were removed and then translated to Greek ... then English. Now also they have at least three 'modern' translations *eye roll* and each has more specific wording for parts that were once open to interpretation. Then when translated from English to other languages it is also re-interpreted due to linguistic differences (the Chinese version makes almost no sense at all and I had to give that one up completely). Then you add in the multiple bibles from other religions that claim to be the one true book of some god or gods ... there are thousands of books that could possibly be the one true one in reality. Each has different teachings and different ideals, though the christian bible usually keeps a basic outline throughout all the translations it has very little fact in it regardless of which version you use. The parts they took out I believe were the real facts, and all they kept in were legends and palms, nothing more.

 

[Care4all]

Care Kitten does not want to believe and is ACTIVELY working against anyone believing. Nothing we say will change her mind. She has been given the tools and not only refuses to accept them but actively works to corrupt others and make them not believe.

Robert has stated he does not believe in the Bible or that Jesus is the Son of God , all he believes is that Jesus was a man. Yet he claims he is a Christian and he too works to subvert others from their belief. Then we have Red, I am not sure what his game is. Other then he does not really believe that Satan exists. He does not believe that people can and do work in Satan's interests most without even knowing it.

Many people, including the Apostle Thomas who was there in person, doubted....but were still forgiven and accepted.

That's okay with me, my quest is to relieve this doubt, if it can't be done , then so be it!

Free will is for a reason, I suppose....?

Care