Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's performance on Afghanistan?

[struth]

Posting a video and you didn't even watch all of it...

ASP in the News: Adjunct Fellow Matt Zeller in CNN

ASP Adjunct Fellow Matt Zeller penned an op-ed for CNN discussing the looming end of the war in Afghanistan and the bold actions needed to bolster the evacuation effort of Afghan allies.

www.americansecurityproject.org

The President should order the 82nd Airborne Division or the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force back into Afghanistan. We should retake airfields we held mere months ago.

Opinion: The Biden administration has a life-or-death decision to make about Afghanistan

So the guy wanted to go back in... That was option 2... Trump or Biden weren't going for option 2...

We are going back....Xiden has more troops there now before he surrendered.....

and all he has guaranteed by handing the country off to the terrorist is another war later

 

[Circe]

The United States is still in Iraq, helping train their military. So are NATO troops from about a dozen countries. Its still the same government that the United States set up in the summer of 2003 after the United States defeated SADDAM. Plenty of insurgents have tried to overthrow that U.S. installed government, but they ultimately failed every time.

Today, Iraq has less people die from violence than the state of California. In fact, in 2021, less people have died from violence than have been killed in the city of Chicago. Chicago by the way has a population of 3 million, while Iraq's population is 40 million.

Iraq is a dead failure, same as Vietnam, same as Libya, same as Afghanistan, same as Somalia -- what have I missed? America can't win wars because we don't fight wars: Americans don't approve of war, we have to pretend to be their friends and be careful not to kill anyone, or at least not let word of it reach this country if we do. It's okay if the Afghans kill US, apparently. At least if it's a volunteer Army it's all right, no fair playing war with leftists' children. I've been watching this since 1964 and I can tell you, we'll never win another war. We can't fight because we hate each other and we won't fight.

The Afghans won and we lost and we'd be crazy to stay. The Europeans are just fussing because they are quickly figuring out we won't ever fight for them, either. Which would certainly not break my heart. Let them get out of their own messes.

 

[JoeB131]

At the end of the day 81mil trusted Biden with decisions such as this. They only have themselves to blame. #Buyers Remorse

No remorse at all. I'm damned happy we are out of the Forever War(TM). So are most Americans.

 

[Circe]

I'm in favor of getting out of Afghanistan soonest and staying out. Maybe by the time they start bombing New York again, somebody will be in office who is willing to bomb them from the air (and not deliberately miss, like Clinton did). Hey, I can hope, anyway. More likely the world will realize America can't fight and will be crowding each other to invade us through Mexico, like Red Dawn.

Biden may well be right that everyone will be relieved to be out of that sand pit and will quickly forget all about it. It's stupid to be fighting any war you are not willing to win.

 

[JoeB131]

So much revisionist history... soooo much.

Afghanistan Total Districts and Provincial Capitals:

Meaningless....

Making up a some joke about Vietnam does not change the factual reality of it.

It wasn't a "joke". The Tet offensive proved the government had been LYING to the American people for years about Vietnam, prompting Walter Conkrite to say this.

The Taliban still existed in 2021, but it does not follow that you should then abandon the Afghanistan to them, when they are hiding in the most remote regions of the country and across the border in Pakistan UNABLE to advance any further than that. That is just absurd and puts the United States and the rest of the world in greater danger from terrorism.

Here's the problem with that. If the vast majority of Afghans didn't agree with the Taliban and what they stood for, they wouldn't have been able to retake the whole country with 70,000 guys.

Most military forces collapse when they run out of ammo, fuel, food, other supplies etc. JOE BIDEN took those things away from the Afghan military with his sudden and hasty withdrawal. It was also Donald Trump the previous year negotiating with the Taliban and getting the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban/Al Qaeda prisoners. In addition, cutting the Afghan government out of talks had a negative psychological effect on the Afghan government and military. This is a tragedy inflicted by the actions taken in the last half of the Trump administration but more specifically BIDEN's actions this spring.

Again 20 years and 2 Trillion spent, and they couldn't stand on their own?

The tragedy is we didn't get out ten years ago.

The Taliban only operate with what they can carry on their back primarily. Its an insurgency, and they don't rely on large weapon systems. You can't effectively run an insurgency that requires a large logistical tail, because it would be to vulnerable to disruption. The Taliban spend much of their time hiding, either among the population or in remote areas.

I want you to think about that statement you just made. The Taliban were able to hide among the population. THat meant when the Americans or Afghan National Army rolled into town, no one in that town yelled, 'Umar is a Taliban, and he's hiding on Minaret Way!!!" Why? Because the people liked the Taliban better than they liked us our our Afghan Quislings.

Also, a draft DOES NOT give everyone skin in the game unless it involves the entire population. Even in World War II, more than half of military age males, 18-44, did not serve in the military.

No, they didn't. But everyone knew someone who did... IN fact, my Dad's generation defined itself by "What did you do in the war". Dad was at Normandy and the Bulge. The guy who shoveled shit at Fort Dix, not so much.

IT went further. Everyone bought War Bonds. Commodities were rationed. Industries were retooled for war. News was censored. The rich finally paid their fair share in taxes. (And did for a decade after until that war debt was paid down!)

Now, compare that to Afghanistan.... Most people are shocked because they largely forgot we were even over there. it was barely even mentioned in the last election, we were too busy with the Plague, Riots and Recession to pay attention to a war everyone had already checked out on.

A military draft is used only when it becomes a necessity in order to keep up military strength in the field. It was never a form of social engineering to keep political leaders or the population in line or to follow some political philosophy about war and intervention. That is just a fantasy of isolationist conservatives or far left liberal pacifist. You can't put every single adult into the military because the country would no longer be able to function. Even with the Israeli military that reportedly requires everyone to serve(although in reality only 50% do), the country could only function for maybe 12 weeks at most at full mobilization.

That might be all we need. BUt as I said, the main key to this plan is to put the children of the rich in harms way... then they'll think twice about the Forever War that doesn't touch them.

Terrorist have many ways of attacking individuals, groups, cities, countries etc. If you believe that you could solve terrorism by keeping the cockpit door locked, you need to educate yourself about the history of terrorism.

Here's the problem. Terrorism isn't a belief system or a philosophy, it's a TACTIC. You beat it by deploying counter tactics...

Of course the first thing you have to do after that is to realize that terrorism isn't an existential threat to the US. That will let you put in the proper perspective so a leader like Bush can't start a Forever War(TM) that no one wants to get out of becasue "We can't let the terrorists win".

Any place where a government or entity supports terrorist or there is no government or entity to check terrorist or other criminal activity are good places for terrorist to base themselves. Its easier for them to avoid interference in such places.

Okay. Again, you realize the US has supported terrorists when it suited us... the Muhajadine, the Contras, the rebels in Angola.... Oh, wait, they were "Freedom Fighters". Ronnie Reagan said so.

Boy, that aged about as well as Rambo III.

Again, the most support the United States ever offered another country was JOSEPH STALIN's SOVIET UNION in World War II. It was necessary in order to win the war, especially at a lower costs. The United States supports lots of people around the world, probably one of the greatest strengths the United States has is its huge network of allied countries around the world. U.S. support for the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan was limited, and most Mujahadeen did not join Al Qaeda or the Taliban in later years. That is just the spin story that primarily liberals like to make. Yes, Bin Ladin and Mullah Omar later became enemies of the United States, but Bin Ladin and Mullah Omar were not the entire Mujahadeen in the 1980s.

The problem is, we also garner a lot of hate by supporting the people we support. Not only the groups mentioned above, but dictators like Batista, Marcos, the Shah of Iran, Mumbato, and of course, our good friends the Zionists, who make people around the world miserable and hate America.

but I don't know anyone that really regrets helping Joseph Stalin during World War II.

Well. The Poles. The Hungarians. The Bulgarians. The Romanians. The Czechs... they all regret we helped Stalin in WWII....

 

[Samofvt]

• The USA WAS Justified in being in that war on two counts: 1) the people responsible for 9/11 were supported by that country, and 2) We never tolerate sociopaths like the taliban who promote evil like they do.
• The mission to get those most responsible was achieved.
• The only mistake we made was to allow the taliban to survive: We should have committed everything we had to root them out of their caves and hiding places until we got their full surrender, and to hold them to that surrender.
• Since we didn't commit fully, the withdrawal was inevitable. It should have happened 8 years ago under obama.
• Things were going to get messy no matter when we got out, but Biden DEFINITELY mishandled the withdrawal and could have saved thousands of lives if he had the courage to look at real world information.

Biden is senile. He needs to be removed before he kills more people senselessly.

 

[Circe]

If the vast majority of Afghans didn't agree with the Taliban and what they stood for, they wouldn't have been able to retake the whole country with 70,000 guys.

Many good things in your post, but I've been thinking a lot about this point above the last few days, because of the Collapse of the Third Republic. Hitler's Blitzkrieg soared across France in a few days in May 1940, all the way to the English Channel and then turned north to Dunkirk. The French ---- behaved exactly like the Afghan army just did. They saw tanks where there were no Germans at all; they threw away their rifles till the ditches alongside the roads were so full they wouldn't drain, all the way to Paris. They threw away their uniforms. They wouldn't fight at all, at all. (I read several books on this, the Shirer one is the best, I think.)

So did the majority of the French agree basically with the Nazis? Weeeelllllllll---- ya know, they probably did. It was hardly a secret that the French were predominantly antisemitic. Even though so many Jews from the Reichstag fled to Paris -- faute de mieux, I suppose. And Petain's Vichy government cooperated with the Nazis, of course (see Casablanca), while the German-occupied part of France perpetuated a myth of a Resistance that was hardly there at all in reality and otherwise cooked great meals and danced the Can-Can for their occupiers and were glad to be out of the war.

So given a Blitzkrieg people panic and they run the way they are already inclined to do, perhaps. This helped me think through something that has always puzzled me. These sudden wartime collapses are not all that uncommon, especially given a fast-moving foe.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No remorse at all. I'm damned happy we are out of the Forever War(TM). So are most Americans.

Not if but how is what troubles most. I understand where you stand but many disagree

 

[JoeB131]

Not if but how is what troubles most. I understand where you stand but many disagree

Guy, nobody is going to care in two weeks that some Halliburton War Profiteers had to wait at the Airport for a couple of days.

Look, I realize you are upset that the Zionist/NeoCon Plan for the Forever War has fallen apart, but in the real world, most people are glad we are done with this shit.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Guy, nobody is going to care in two weeks that some Halliburton War Profiteers had to wait at the Airport for a couple of days.

Look, I realize you are upset that the Zionist/NeoCon Plan for the Forever War has fallen apart, but in the real world, most people are glad we are done with this shit.

I disagree. So what now? A firing squad for me?

 

[U2Edge]

Typical is the criticism leveled at Biden by Sen. Robert Menendez, chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “In implementing this flawed plan, I am disappointed that the Biden administration clearly did not accurately assess the implications of a rapid U.S. withdrawal."

In other words, Biden was unable to predict the future and what the enemy accomplished in a short amount of time.

Consider this, there is little doubt that there were intelligence reports concerning the lack of fight within the Afghan army. However, there has been no information on the evaluation of the Director of National Intelligence. There is no indication the DNI told President Biden with "High Confidence" that the Afghan army would fold at the first sign of trouble.

Then there is this. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley insisted at a Wednesday press conference that U.S. intelligence did not predict the collapse of the Afghan government in less than two weeks. “There was nothing that I or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army in this government in 11 days,” he said, adding they were told the country could fall to the Taliban in weeks or even years.

A commander, in this case, the President of the United States, can only make decisions on the basis of the information available to him. He cannot predict the future.

The situation in Afghanistan today is a consequence of the successes of the enemy, not American failure.

The enemy does not always do what you want him to do.

In this case the enemy did not wait "weeks or even years" to accomplish what he set out to do.

The President was warned by other staff in the Defense/Diplomatic/intelligence community, both active and retired what could happen if the United States and NATO suddenly pulled out their forces, which were logistically supporting the Afghan military in the field. The Afghan military had not yet developed an independent logistical capability of their own. All of their Helicopters, Aircraft, relied on U.S./NATO forces/contractors to repair them and keep them operational. Afghan military units were dependent for ammo/fuel/food/spare parts/maintenance of vehicles, on the work of U.S.NATO forces/contractors.

As former Ambassador RYAN CROCKER has said, JOE BIDEN OWNS THIS!

 

[U2Edge]

Guy, nobody is going to care in two weeks that some Halliburton War Profiteers had to wait at the Airport for a couple of days.

Look, I realize you are upset that the Zionist/NeoCon Plan for the Forever War has fallen apart, but in the real world, most people are glad we are done with this shit.

I don't know any informed person that is glad that Afghanistan has been overrun by a Terrorist organization that has caused thousands of people around the world to die because of their actions, and that the threat of terrorism worldwide is now increasing.

Not only that, many of the United States allies are now worried that the United States under Joe Biden is less likely to keep its treaty obligations to defend NATO against a Russian invasion, or Taiwan from a Chinese invasion. U.S. credibility is in rapid decline, and that means the probability of attacks, invasions, or other hostile actions against U.S. interest by other countries such as Russia, China, Iran, North Korea are now more likely.

Its by far the worst foreign policy mistake any U.S. President has made in history, especially given the low cost of stationing small numbers of troops in Afghanistan that would have prevented this sudden tragedy from taking place.

 

[U2Edge]

Some have accused Biden of not listening to his intelligence and military advisors.

This is who Biden did listen to.

Even with the current chaos in Kabul and the Kabul airport which has been seen every day on every network ever since plus the barrage of finger pointing at our President, a recent survey conducted by Morning Consult and Politico between Aug. 13 and Aug. 16, the day after the Taliban completed its takeover of Kabul, found that 49 percent of American voters still support President Biden’s decision to pull troops from the country.

Significantly and prior to the current chaos, 69 percent expressed support for the exit in an April survey by the same firms.

As a Presidential candidate, Biden campaigned on a withdrawal from Afghanistan. Obviously, voters agreed with him.

Getting back to the August poll, The Hill reports. "Thirty-seven percent of voters [one assumes Republicans] polled in August said they opposed the president’s decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, which was more than double the 16 percent opposition recorded in April.

"Sixty-nine percent of Democrats approved the president’s decision to pull troops from Afghanistan in the new poll, down from 84 percent in April."

"Over the past 20 years, Americans’ support for the war in Afghanistan has consistently waned. So much so that despite the Taliban taking over the country in a matter of days this past week — after the United States spent a trillion dollars and thousands of lives to prevent such a thing — very few people are second-guessing the need to withdraw, though many debate how the withdrawal has been executed by the Biden administration," the Washington Post.

The Taliban captured Kandahar and Kabul on the weekend and within hours the Afghan security forces folded without firing a shot, hence the chaos we are seeing now

There is no possible way Biden and his military advisors could anticipate that.

To say otherwise assumes the President and/or the Joint Chiefs decided to create a trap for American troops and civilians in Afghanistan, knowing the debacle that would follow.

To say otherwise makes absolutely no sense.

Well, change the wording of the question in the poll slightly and you'll get a very different response.

How many Americans would support a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan if it put the United States in greater danger of suffering a terrorist attack?

 

[JoeB131]

I disagree. So what now? A firing squad for me?

I was thinking we should round up you and ever other loud mouth Chicken hawk, drop you off in the middle of Kabul and you can show the rest of us how it's done.

Maybe you can impress the Taliban with your impressive MMA style.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't know any informed person that is glad that Afghanistan has been overrun by a Terrorist organization that has caused thousands of people around the world to die because of their actions, and that the threat of terrorism worldwide is now increasing.

Uh, guy, let's get real. More American died in the Forever War(TM) than died in all terrorist attacks including 9/11. It's the problem of treating a law enforcement issue like a military one.

The Taliban was willing to turn over Bin Laden in 2001, or at least expel him. Bush and Cheney wanted their Forever War(TM) and they got it. The Contractors got fat and rich, we pissed away trillions of dollars and thousands of lives... and we have absolutely zero to show for it. If anything, we are WORSE off.

Not only that, many of the United States allies are now worried that the United States under Joe Biden is less likely to keep its treaty obligations to defend NATO against a Russian invasion, or Taiwan from a Chinese invasion. U.S. credibility is in rapid decline, and that means the probability of attacks, invasions, or other hostile actions against U.S. interest by other countries such as Russia, China, Iran, North Korea are now more likely.

You know what, I'm old enough to remember the SAME SHIT being spewed by people when Saigon fell. It was shit then. It was shit now.

Its by far the worst foreign policy mistake any U.S. President has made in history, especially given the low cost of stationing small numbers of troops in Afghanistan that would have prevented this sudden tragedy from taking place.

Yup. Just another 20 years... That's all we needed in the Forever War(TM). Just keep throwing money at the problem.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, change the wording of the question in the poll slightly and you'll get a very different response.

How many Americans would support a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan if it put the United States in greater danger of suffering a terrorist attack?

Except you haven't really proven the Forever War(TM) reduced the chances of a terrorist attack. If anything, it made it greater as you gave the world's 1.3 Billion Muslims new reasons to be pissed at us.

Hey, you want to end terrorism against America, here's how you do it.

1) Take all the troops out of the Middle East and announce we are no longer parties to their internal conflicts.
2) Stop supporting the Zionist Entity blindly and mindlessly
3) Take all the money we aren't pissing away playing Hall Monitor of the Middle East and invest it into alternative energy and energy independence, thereby reducing the value of the oil that funds terror groups.

You see, this funny thing. Al Qaeda doesn't attack Japan? Why? Japan minds it's own fucking business.

 

[JoeB131]

The President was warned by other staff in the Defense/Diplomatic/intelligence community, both active and retired what could happen if the United States and NATO suddenly pulled out their forces, which were logistically supporting the Afghan military in the field. The Afghan military had not yet developed an independent logistical capability of their own. All of their Helicopters, Aircraft, relied on U.S./NATO forces/contractors to repair them and keep them operational. Afghan military units were dependent for ammo/fuel/food/spare parts/maintenance of vehicles, on the work of U.S.NATO forces/contractors.

As former Ambassador RYAN CROCKER has said, JOE BIDEN OWNS THIS!

We've waited 20 years for the Afghans to get their shit together and be able to defend their own country.

They didn't want to because secretly, most of them are THRILLED that we are gone and the Taliban is back.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I was thinking we should round up you and ever other loud mouth Chicken hawk, drop you off in the middle of Kabul and you can show the rest of us how it's done.

Maybe you can impress the Taliban with your impressive MMA style.

Happy to do it

 

[U2Edge]

Except you haven't really proven the Forever War(TM) reduced the chances of a terrorist attack. If anything, it made it greater as you gave the world's 1.3 Billion Muslims new reasons to be pissed at us.

Hey, you want to end terrorism against America, here's how you do it.

1) Take all the troops out of the Middle East and announce we are no longer parties to their internal conflicts.
2) Stop supporting the Zionist Entity blindly and mindlessly
3) Take all the money we aren't pissing away playing Hall Monitor of the Middle East and invest it into alternative energy and energy independence, thereby reducing the value of the oil that funds terror groups.

You see, this funny thing. Al Qaeda doesn't attack Japan? Why? Japan minds it's own fucking business.

Ok, Neville Chamberlain! Appeasement, isolationism, and pacifism are not effective means to protect U.S. national security. The United States learned that the hard way with World War I, and World War II. The United States changed its defensive posture after World War II, which is one of the reasons there has not been a World War III and has effectively protected the globalized world system since that time that was essentially created by Franklin Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman.

There is no "forever war". That is like saying the United States responsibility to protect its interest, its citizens, its survival, in a globalized 21st century world is somehow a forever war. ITS THE RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE! Everyone has it. Sadly there are people out there who think its better achieved by pulling down your pants and grabbing your ankles to service anyone who might cause you harm.

After World War II, there were strict conditions placed on what type of military Japan could have and when and where they could use that military around the world. Those restrictions though have gradually been reduced over the past decades. Japanese troops actually deployed for a time in the 00s to Iraq to support the United States rebuilding efforts there. Plus, it was JAPAN, along with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Germany, that paid for the cost of the entire 1991 GULF WAR, that was said to anger Bin Ladin so much that he decided to start attacking the Western Nations.


As for terrorism, the record shows there has not been a 9/11 scale attack on the United States since September 11, 2001. There has also been no similar attack on U.S. surface warship like the U.S.S. Cole in the year 2000, or an American Embassy with the scale of damage done to U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania during the 1998 Bombings by Al Qaeda. A forward presence helps to collect intelligence, and role up terrorist or insurgent networks. You simply don't have the same ability to combat terrorism coming from Afghanistan with an Aircraft Carrier in the Indian Ocean or from Air Base in the Persian Gulf. Having people on the ground in Afghanistan to collect intelligence as well as friendly government in Kabul with a friendly military and police force to work with IS FAR MORE EFFECTIVE AT STOPPING TERRORISM THAN these so called Over The Horizon capabilities that JOE BIDEN wanted to rely on, which is simply a return to the 1990s, which no knowledgeable person in hindsight think was effective.

There is no such thing as energy independence or more likely globalization independence. Its not 1812, its 2021. The days you could pretend the world outside your borders didn't exist ended well over a century ago.

In addition, petroleum, which is being used at a 50% higher rate than it was 30 years, is used to make all kinds of products of which energy is just ONE! Even a country like Brazil which uses Sugar Cain based ethanol to power their cars, is still heavily impacted by the market for Petroleum.

Also the issues of Russian aggression, Chinese aggression, Iranian aggression, North Korean aggression, plus the global environment are even more reasons why the United States can't retreat from the world.

 

[U2Edge]

We've waited 20 years for the Afghans to get their shit together and be able to defend their own country.

They didn't want to because secretly, most of them are THRILLED that we are gone and the Taliban is back.

You can see the scale of Afghan military sacrifice in the numbers here:

Brookings Institution:


Year - Afghan military/police deaths from combat - U.S. military deaths from combat - Non-US/NATO deaths from combat

2015 - 7,000 - 11 - 1
2016 - 8,000 - 9 - 2
2017 - 8,000 - 11 - 2
2018 - 8,000 - 13 - 4
2019 - 10,900 - 18 - 2
2020 - 10,900 - 4 - 0


There is simply no data, that there many people in Afghanistan that support a return of the Taliban. Please, I challenge to name ONE AFGHAN women, ONE AFGHAN Girl that supports the return of the TALIBAN!

The tragedy of the past four months happened because JOE BIDEN took away the AFGHAN military's ability to function by suddenly withdrawing all NATO forces. ANY OBJECTIVE EXAMINATION OF THE EVIDENCE OF THE PAST SIX YEARS SHOWS THAT! But you don't want to look at any of that to hold on to your simplistic beliefs based on what you have seen the past few weeks. Its grossly inaccurate and if you took time to examine the data, you would see that.