Do Faithful Muslims Lie?

[Adamo]

Im not a muslim asshole.
How fucking stupid are you?

There you go: good Muslims DO lie!

 

[Madeline]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

Quantum Windbag, I have no doubt the Koran can be twisted to suit an evil intent....obviously, so can the Bible. So can any text.

Allie...if you begin to learn from a place of fear and loathing, you will reject all evidence of trustworthiness and cling to all evidence of wrong-doing. Should we evaluate all christians based on the acts of Eric Rudolph?

 

[Si modo]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

Quantum Windbag, I have no doubt the Koran can be twisted to suit an evil intent....obviously, so can they Bible. So can any text.

Allie...if you begin to learn from a place of fear and loathing, you will reject all evidence of trustworthiness and cling to all evidence of wrong-doing. Should we evaluate all christians based on the acts of Eric Rudolph?

There's nothing narrow about the circumstances in which lying is encouraged in Islam, you raving lunatic.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

So there it is ,another display of gross dishonesty .

 

[Madeline]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

So there it is ,another display of gross dishonesty .

Yes, I see a difference. The Koran blesses the half-truth told for the protection of an innocent person and does not bless a lie told as part of a campaign of terror. You can bold and enlarge all you like, Mr. Fitnah....what you have written is a misrepresentation of Islam and anyone with half a brain knows it.

 

[Si modo]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

So there it is ,another display of gross dishonesty .

Yes, I see a difference. The Koran blesses the half-truth told for the protection of an innocent person and does not bless a lie told as part of a campaign of terror. You can bold and enlarge all you like, Mr. Fitnah....what you have written is a misrepresentation of Islam and anyone with half a brain knows it.

Sooooo, quoting a sahaba of Muhammad is 'misrepresenting Islam'.

You are certifiable.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr. Fitnah seems to suffer from the delusion that I am at his beck and call, or need his permission to leave USMB. It's sad, but it is not my problem.

Anyone who reads the Op with an open mind is able to determine that lying is contrary to Islam, apart from two very narrow circumstances that have nothing whatsoever to do with converting anyone else or conquering them.

The closest non-Muslim example I can think of would be when certain German Christians hid innocent Jews from the hungry jaws of the Nazi terror machine. THAT would be a perfect example of Taqiyya.

Can you see the difference between hiding Jews from Nazis and deceiving someone so you can isolate and murder them for the crime of mocking Islam, while Islam was at the early stages of piracy, raiding caravans and disrupting trade

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369, cf. the article on Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf for further details)

So there it is ,another display of gross dishonesty .

Yes, I see a difference. The Koran blesses the half-truth told for the protection of an innocent person and does not bless a lie told as part of a campaign of terror. You can bold and enlarge all you like, Mr. Fitnah....what you have written is a misrepresentation of Islam and anyone with half a brain knows it.

So you are a greater source of Islamic history that Sahih Bukhari
Military Expeditions led by the Prophet (pbuh) (Al-Maghaazi)
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 369
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!"

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[Sunni Man]

So what is the big deal about this Mr. Fitnuts?

It was during the time of a specific war and against a specific enemy.


Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!"

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It was during the time of a specific war and against a specific enemy.

Its an example for all Muslims to follow.Mohammad declared war against the world
Ishaq:208 "When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."


33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.


'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
??????? - ?????? - ???? ???????

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So what is the big deal about this Mr. Fitnuts?

It was during the time of a specific war and against a specific enemy.


Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!"

Oh nothing , kind of like killing Theo Van-Gogh.

 

[Sunni Man]

So what is the big deal about this Mr. Fitnuts?

It was during the time of a specific war and against a specific enemy.


Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!"

Oh nothing , kind of like killing Theo Van-Gogh.

That is an idiotic comparison Fitnuts

During a time of war enemy propagandists are fair game for assassination or execution if captured..

"Tokyo Rose" was on the hit list of the Allies during WWII

The nazi radio personality William Joyce, aka "Lord Haw Haw" was captured and executed by the Allies for his radio broadcasts during WWII.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

So what is the big deal about this Mr. Fitnuts?

It was during the time of a specific war and against a specific enemy.


Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!"

Oh nothing , kind of like killing Theo Van-Gogh.

That is an idiotic comparison Fitnuts

During a time of war enemy propagandists are fair game for assassination or execution if captured..

"Tokyo Rose" was on the hit list of the Allies during WWII

The nazi radio personality William Joyce, aka "Lord Haw Haw" was captured and executed by the Allies for his radio broadcasts during WWII.

The Nazis and their allies, like Islam are the aggressors in the conflict.
You dont get to claim the high moral ground when you start the fight and are criticized for robbing caravans while masquerading as a religion.

 

[Adamo]

The Nazis and their allies, like Islam are the aggressors in the conflict.
You dont get to claim the high moral ground when you start the fight and are criticized for robbing caravans while masquerading as a religion.

Sorry mr.fistfuck but your history is wrong. Jews, Americans and British started the current world war by supporting the stealing of arab lands in Palestine to form Israel, and then put the Palestinians into concentration camps.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And what did "America" do to incur the wrath of muslim marauders between 1794 and 1815?

 

[Adamo]

You're the arab scholar and all around Muslim wannabe, you tell us.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Best thing to do is go to the holy book, read the thing, and come back with chapter and verse and direct quotes on the matter.

As they say in computer class, RTFM

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Best thing to do is go to the holy book, read the thing, and come back with chapter and verse and direct quotes on the matter.

As they say in computer class, RTFM

Yup, read it in context of the day to day activities of the so called "prophet" read and understand the ijma of the Companions and the successors and the leading imams and mujtahideen of the past.

 

[Kalam]

In Islam Lie is forbidden but you can lie in only 2 cases:

-In war, you shouldn't tell the truth to the enemy.
-Lie in order to restore and making right the relations between two opponents men or couple.

The Prophet was asked; can the real faithfull lie? he said " No".

And those two situations pretty much cover all.

Please explain.

 

[Kalam]

Best thing to do is go to the holy book, read the thing, and come back with chapter and verse and direct quotes on the matter.

As they say in computer class, RTFM

Yup, read it in context of the day to day activities of the so called "prophet" read and understand the ijma of the Companions and the successors and the leading imams and mujtahideen of the past.

Just like you, right?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Exactly.
I have nothing to hide
I didn't want Islam to be a problem. I wanted it to be hijacked and twisted.
Unfortunately I was unable to prove that.