Do Conservatives Want a Religious War Between the West and the Islamic World?

[Steinlight]

I read your argument, you said islamic and christian war theory is the same ball of wax, and provided no evidence to this claim on any pages here(if you did, than copy paste it it should take you two seconds). Provide the evidence please, thank you.

Go back and read what I wrote and go through the links that I have already provided. Thanks.

I did. Thanks. Now answer my questions and provide the evidence for your claims.

I have. Thanks. You're entering a conversation that began with post #5. Start there.

I read your post 5 already. That is another line of questioning you never answered so thanks for reminding me to remind you. Who is this american taliban(name specific names, no just vague terms like dominionist republicans or some other rachel maddow nonsense), cite those specific names and their specific influence over foreign policy, cite where they have advocated for holy war and where they are engaged in holy war.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

 

[Disir]

Go back and read what I wrote and go through the links that I have already provided. Thanks.

I did. Thanks. Now answer my questions and provide the evidence for your claims.

I have. Thanks. You're entering a conversation that began with post #5. Start there.

I read your post 5 already. That is another line of questioning you never answered so thanks for reminding me to remind you. Who is this american taliban(name specific names, no just vague terms like dominionist republicans or some other rachel maddow nonsense), cite those specific names and their specific influence over foreign policy, cite where they have advocated for holy war and where they are engaged in holy war.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

No.



The Fellowship Christian organization - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Disir]

Rick Perry s Religious Revival Sparks A Holy War NPR

 

[JWBooth]

Isn't it US policy to remove non-jihadist , like Assad , from power in order to to have a pretext to continue the "war on terror?

Certainly not openly stated, but it is the net effect.

 

[Mustang]

If the long history and storied events of the past few centuries don't make much of an impression on people when it comes to religious fundamentalists and the problems they always cause, perhaps because many people are not all that well-versed in history, then the last few years which is within recent memory should suffice. Just look where we are now.

At any rate, America has it's own home grown brand of fundamentalists who preach Armageddon and actually support a particular brand of foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel and the Middle East in anticipation of Armageddon. In fact, many of these people think they may just be able to usher in the infamous Last Days of scripture. Frankly, I'm not at all convinced that American conservatives with a belief in the inevitability of Armageddon and with access to the levers of American military power are any less dangerous than Muslim extremists with dreams of a new caliphate.

With that said, I think it's safe to say that the rest of the world which is mostly comprised of people living in the here and now instead of immersing themselves in the stories and parables of eons past and don't much feel like being taken along on the fundamentalists' attempt to drive humanity off a metaphorical cliff simply for the sake of fulfilling someone's idea of a gospel revelation or a doctrinally-required End of Days as a prerequisite for getting into heaven as espoused by a scriptural nitpicker like Bob Dutko.

My immediate idea for a solution for this problem is to do what's been suggested that ambitious secular leaders of the past should do when they had delusions of empire (and grandeur), and nobody else really wanted to be pawns in their machinations. In other words, let them duke it out while the rest of us do something else. For example, we could just grab some take out and play the game Risk where the death and destruction is no more real than the average stripper's tits.

But then I realized something. I couldn't be entirely sure that Dr James Dobson of Focus on the Family and Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would really come out of their respective corners swinging. Hell, they might get hurt. Besides, I'd be worried that they would decide to join forces in order to teach the rest of us peaceful heathens a lesson that we'd never forget assuming we survived to tell the tale.

 

[Steinlight]

I did. Thanks. Now answer my questions and provide the evidence for your claims.

I have. Thanks. You're entering a conversation that began with post #5. Start there.

I read your post 5 already. That is another line of questioning you never answered so thanks for reminding me to remind you. Who is this american taliban(name specific names, no just vague terms like dominionist republicans or some other rachel maddow nonsense), cite those specific names and their specific influence over foreign policy, cite where they have advocated for holy war and where they are engaged in holy war.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

No.



The Fellowship Christian organization - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

This has nothing to do with Hagee.

But this organization hasn't called for holy war anywhere from the information you provided, in fact, they have called for peace in the past.

The Fellowship was a behind-the-scenes player at the Camp David Middle East accords in 1978, working with President Jimmy Carter to issue a worldwide call to prayer with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadathttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)#cite_note-ShowingFaith-8

 

[Disir]

I have. Thanks. You're entering a conversation that began with post #5. Start there.

I read your post 5 already. That is another line of questioning you never answered so thanks for reminding me to remind you. Who is this american taliban(name specific names, no just vague terms like dominionist republicans or some other rachel maddow nonsense), cite those specific names and their specific influence over foreign policy, cite where they have advocated for holy war and where they are engaged in holy war.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

No.



The Fellowship Christian organization - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

This has nothing to do with Hagee.

But this organization hasn't called for holy war anywhere from the information you provided, in fact, they have called for peace in the past.

The Fellowship was a behind-the-scenes player at the Camp David Middle East accords in 1978, working with President Jimmy Carter to issue a worldwide call to prayer with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat

I didn't provide it as a back up for Hagee.


It's the intersection of religion and politics.

 

[Steinlight]

Rick Perry s Religious Revival Sparks A Holy War NPR

Rick Perry doesn't call for a holy war there. The article talks about the CULTURE war between Christians and Seculars, totally different thing. Stop lying and come up with credible examples.

 

[Steinlight]

I read your post 5 already. That is another line of questioning you never answered so thanks for reminding me to remind you. Who is this american taliban(name specific names, no just vague terms like dominionist republicans or some other rachel maddow nonsense), cite those specific names and their specific influence over foreign policy, cite where they have advocated for holy war and where they are engaged in holy war.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

No.



The Fellowship Christian organization - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

This has nothing to do with Hagee.

But this organization hasn't called for holy war anywhere from the information you provided, in fact, they have called for peace in the past.

The Fellowship was a behind-the-scenes player at the Camp David Middle East accords in 1978, working with President Jimmy Carter to issue a worldwide call to prayer with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat

I didn't provide it as a back up for Hagee.


It's the intersection of religion and politics.

No one ever said religious groups don't influence politics, you are creating strawman. You made a couple claims. One christian and islamic war theory are the same ball of wax. And that an American Taliban is calling for and/or leading America in a Holy War against Islam. Neither claim of which you have substantiated

 

[CaféAuLait]

Recently, there have been a few lone wolf attacks by men who have recently converted to Islam but seem to have no known connection to any terrorist group. Despite the isolated nature of these attacks, I've been hearing quite a few people on the right say that we should come to terms with what they say is the reality that we ARE at war with Islam. To that end, the mock president Obama's statements that Islam is a religion of peace and that we are NOT at war with Islam.

These comments aren't isolated statements. Actually, it's more of a rising chorus on the right.

Is it really wise for America to expand the fight from a struggle between our nation and few terrorists and/or terrorist groups with goals that are not even shared by the gov'ts in the countries where these terrorists operate into a monumental fight between the West and Islam which could ultimately involve millions of potential combatants and conceivably go on for decades if not longer?

I guess one of the reasons that this mystifies me is because it seems to me that this is EXACTLY what the terrorists want. Why would we do for them what they have so far been unable to accomplish on their own?

So ISIS and ISIL calling for lone wolf attacks has turned into cons warring on Islam?

“If you can kill a disbelieving American or European — especially the spiteful and filthy French — or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State, then rely upon Allah, and kill him in any manner or way however it may be,” Mr. Adnani urged, adding, “Kill the disbeliever whether he is civilian or military” because “both of them are disbelievers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/w...west-raise-new-fears-over-isis-influence.html

ISIS praised the Ottawa shooting as an example of what followers can and should do.

ISIS threat Canada attack has U.S. officials worried about homegrown terrorism - CBS News

ISIS spokesman exhorts followers: “In Europe, America, Australia and Canada don’t sit out this war, wherever you may be. [Attack] the tyrants’ soldiers, their police and security forces, their intelligence [forces] and collaborators.
“If you are able to kill an American or European infidel,” ISIS continues, “particularly any of the hostile, impure Frenchmen—or an Australian or a Canadian…Do not consult anyone and do not seek a fatwa from anyone. It is immaterial if the infidel is a combatant or a civilian. Their sentence is one; they are both infidels, both enemies.”

Lone Wolves Terrorist Runts and the Stray Dogs of ISIS - The Daily Beast


A War, something which ISIS and ISIL called for and somehow it is spun conservatives are warring with them, after 3 successful attacks of this nature in mere weeks? GMAB.

 

[Disir]

Rick Perry s Religious Revival Sparks A Holy War NPR

Rick Perry doesn't call for a holy war there. The article talks about the CULTURE war between Christians and Seculars, totally

David Lane is another one jack ass.

Randall Terry, John Hagee, David Barton, Coral Ridge Ministries, Betty Fischer, CUFI. There is more.

Look for supporting politicians here for CUFI:
Bill Moyers Journal . Christians United for Israel CUFI PBS

I can pull Perry and his bullshit if necessary.

On second thought. I'm not pulling another mutherfucking thing for your dumb ass.

Ok, lets go one by one, what position in government has Hagee held, which politicians has he financed or influenced in government policy, where did he call for a holy war in, or where is the holy war he called for occuring in?

No.



The Fellowship Christian organization - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

This has nothing to do with Hagee.

But this organization hasn't called for holy war anywhere from the information you provided, in fact, they have called for peace in the past.

The Fellowship was a behind-the-scenes player at the Camp David Middle East accords in 1978, working with President Jimmy Carter to issue a worldwide call to prayer with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat

I didn't provide it as a back up for Hagee.


It's the intersection of religion and politics.

No one ever said religious groups don't influence politics, you are creating strawman. You made a couple claims. One christian and islamic war theory are the same ball of wax. And that an American Taliban is calling for and/or leading America in a Holy War against Islam. Neither claim of which you have substantiated

Yes, I have provided it. This is my original statement:

You have a group of the religious right (Dominionists included) that wants a Holy War and firmly believe that this will bring about "the end times". They are simply being manipulated. These folks are easy to spot because they attempt to frame foreign policy as choosing Christianity over Islam. Even though most people would choose neither or do not view choosing one over the other as any type of rational choice.

There is no difference between using interpretations of the Koran to justify a Jihad and using parts of the Christian Bible to do the same.

It's also why I told you to back track to the beginning of the conversation.

Tiny Dancers says the following:

I've read the Word many times and frankly I've never read that we as Christians should start a Holy War. I'd appreciate you showing me where in the New Testament we are ordered to do so.

On the other hand, Twelvers firmly believe that chaos must reign over the planet before al al-Mahdi comes back as the Messiah with Jesus to rule the earth under Islam and bring peace around the globe.

It's an apocalyptic view to be certain. Don't forget that Ahmadinejad actually called for the reappearance of the 12th Imam at the UN. They truly believe in this.

Hence they believe war and chaos can hasten the appearance of the Messiah and Jesus.

This is my response:

It's not a question of being ordered. It's the interpretation and spin. Parts of the bible have been used to justify a great many things. War and slavery are among them.

Meet Gary Cass:
I 8217 m Islamaphobic Are You

Meet General Boykin:
WallBuilders - LIVE

Matthew 10:34English Standard Version (ESV)
Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Islam has scholars that devote their time to interpretations. The puritanical extremist streak that is associated with Wahhabism is one. This is what was exported by both the Saudis and the US to create a jihad against the (then) Soviet Union.

Christian interpretations have been used to justify war. If you like I can dig out the first time Christianity was tied to war, a later use of Christianity for war, and the removal of parts of the bible because a group of people were considered too war like as it was. Or not. If that stuff bores you then I am not even going to waste my time. It's ok. I know it bores the crap out of people and I'm used to it.

It's about manipulation. Manipulating people through their religious beliefs.

She responds:

Sigh. These passages in Matthew have to do with the mission of the twelve and the conditions of discipleship.

You can't treat the Word as a salad bar and only pick what you want and leave the rest behind.

All thru the New Testament Christ advocates for peace. But He understands that it is unavoidable that wars will continue until He returns.

There is the theory of the Just War that was put forth by Christian theologians St. Augustine of and St. Thomas Aquinas but that is a whole different ball of wax than being commanded to wage a Holy War as compared to the Koran which has many verses commanding believers to wage war.

ETA: packing it in for tonight. See you tomorrow.

This is my response:

I know they are taken out of context. That's my point.

And the Just War theory was created by theologians as to when God gives his stamp of approval. That's not a different ball of wax. It's simply not as alien as Islam is.

Islam has done the same.

This appeals to different types of individuals. It incorporates nationalism and uses God as a weapon or cattle prod. Taking a group of people that live with one foot in the grave at all times, firmly believe in religious supremacy and intend to instill that in every corner of the world for salvation is a Holy War.

There is a reason that we call these people the American Taliban.

Religion has always been used as a manipulative device for control.

The jackasses at the top aren't blowing themselves up. They get the younger, idealistic kids to do it by keeping them bouncing from hopelessness to desperation to salvation.

So, grow the fuck up and pay attention.

 

[Steinlight]

What positions have David Lane in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

 

[Disir]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

Do you know who he is?

If not, get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

 

[Steinlight]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

 

[Disir]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

 

[Steinlight]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

You are the one who brought him up, it is on you to cite who he finances in government or who in government he influences on foreign policy, or where he has called for a holy war against Islam.

 

[Disir]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

You are the one who brought him up, it is on you to cite who he finances in government or who in government he influences on foreign policy, or where he has called for a holy war against Islam.

Get the fuck off your ass and do the research. I'm not going to baby you.

 

[Steinlight]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

You are the one who brought him up, it is on you to cite who he finances in government or who in government he influences on foreign policy, or where he has called for a holy war against Islam.

Get the fuck off your ass and do the research. I'm not going to baby you.

I have done the research, and know for a fact he doesn't finance anyone in the government or influence anyone in the government on foreign policy, and hasn't called for a holy war against islam in any country. I am just trying to get you to admit this.

 

[Disir]

David Lane doesn't have to hold a position in the government.

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

You are the one who brought him up, it is on you to cite who he finances in government or who in government he influences on foreign policy, or where he has called for a holy war against Islam.

Get the fuck off your ass and do the research. I'm not going to baby you.

I have done the research, and know for a fact he doesn't finance anyone in the government or influence anyone in the government on foreign policy, and hasn't called for a holy war against islam in any country. I am just trying to get you to admit this.

Try again.

 

[Steinlight]

If he isn't in the government, who does he finance or influence in government on foreign policy and where has he called for a holy war against islam?

Get the fuck off your ass and look him up.

You are the one who brought him up, it is on you to cite who he finances in government or who in government he influences on foreign policy, or where he has called for a holy war against Islam.

Get the fuck off your ass and do the research. I'm not going to baby you.

I have done the research, and know for a fact he doesn't finance anyone in the government or influence anyone in the government on foreign policy, and hasn't called for a holy war against islam in any country. I am just trying to get you to admit this.

Try again.

LOL, you know you have no argument, honestly your the most pathetic shitlib I have ever seen. I could make better arguments for your point than you even though I know they are bs.