Zone1 Do billionaires make our lives better?

Elon single handedly erased internet dead zones after decades of govt promises and who knows how many millions disappeard into friends accounts. Same with our launch capability. NASA cant build a rocket anymore its simply another diversity program thats hires unqualified people cause racism

Yep.....the left hates anyone with one penny morw than the left thinks they should have, especially if that individual earned that money through hard work, and makimg things people want or need
 

Unlike their forebears, contemporary billionaires do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest colony on the moon. In contrast, however avaricious, the titans of past gilded eras still saw themselves as human members of civil society. Contemporary billionaires appear to understand civics and civilians as impediments to their progress, necessary victims of the externalities of their companies’ growth, sad artefacts of the civilisation they will leave behind in their inexorable colonisation of the next dimension. Unlike their forebears, they do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest underground lair in New Zealand, colony on the moon or Mars or virtual reality server in the cloud.

Mr Carnegie actually built Wrexham Library. He also built Coedpoeth Library a couple of mile down the road. He may have been an absolute shit of a man but he was recognisably a member of the human race.

Todays megarich seem to spend their money on insulating themselves from the world rather than helping o improve it.

While Bezos flies to the moon. or tries to, his staff are striking for a living wage so that they can feed themselves and keep a roof over their head. His business model is based on killing the opposition by using debt to undercut his rivals.And taxpayers pay for him to do so by giving him tax breaks and grants to open his sweatshops in our towns.

In fact all of these people have benefitted from lax taxation regimes and feeble legislation.Society pays a lot more than just a financial cost. Wages are depressed as Apple makes its phones in countries where the people assembling the products could never afford one.Its exploitation.

There will never be a British or American phone maker because Apple have priced them out of the market.Exploiting overseas workers in order to bypass the workers in their core markets. Jobs never presented that at his cult meetings.

That is globalism.

Starbucks in the UK is structured to avoid UK taxation.The whole enterprise is a tax dodge. And yet you cannot avoid a starbucks in the UK.They close down smaller traders not with a better product. They do it with the financial might that they have. A power not available to smaller local competitors.

And on top of that they do not contribute to the country they trade in. They trade off our roads and utilities.police protection, education and a host of other benefits.

This is why our governments are always short of money and our infrastructure is crumbling.
We should stop subsidising these bandits and start taxing them properly. They are sucking the life out of society.

It wasnt always like this. My taid worked for over 30 yeasr for an American company Monsanto.They might have a dubious environmental record but they were a bloody good employer.

They paid their staff well and paid a generous pension. The modern billionaire class go on joy rides into space.

So, you think that massive taxation on people who create jobs is better? So that the billions generated in taxes can be stolen, lost or wasted by politicians and bureaucrats who dont create anything and who generally make things worse for people.
 
They close down all the other businesses in town, Less competition means lower wages.Less choice. The benefits all accrue to one family.

And the only way they do that is by using the corrupt politicians who you want to give all that tax money.
 
They could pay their taxes ?

The financial disparity between the working class and the wealthy capitalists shouldn't exceed a certain level, because failing to regulate that always leads to cronyism in the government, monopolies and oligopolies, etc. It undermines public order and democracy. Everyone who criticizes my position conveniently ignores the obvious, inevitable result of advanced automation and AI in the area of production. Society needs to begin the gradual transition from for-profit production to non-profit, to avoid the inevitable catastrophic consequences of an unprepared, unmitigated replacement of wage labor with advanced automation and artificial intelligence.

If we fail to prepare for this highly disruptive, inevitable shift in the way we produce goods and services, we face the collapse of our economy and societal chaos.
 
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Society needs to begin the gradual transition from for-profit production to non-profit, to avoid the inevitable catastrophic consequences of the replacement of wage labor with advanced automation and artificial intelligence.

That's a great point, what is the long term outlook for inevitable population growth and automation? The billionaire class in this country has allowed cheap foreign labor to turn pockets of this country into their own third world hellholes, hollowed out and no income to sustain themselves, how far in the current direction can we go before civil unrest becomes a problem?

Will the police and military be tasked to protect the billionaire class? Would they do it?
 
That's a great point, what is the long term outlook for inevitable population growth and automation? The billionaire class in this country has allowed cheap foreign labor to turn pockets of this country into their own third world hellholes, hollowed out and no income to sustain themselves, how far in the current direction can we go before civil unrest becomes a problem?

Will the police and military be tasked to protect the billionaire class? Would they do it?
They're offering everyone a "Universal Basic Income"(UBI), which is essentially a government bailout. It's capitalism on life-support, hardly alive, with a tube down its throat, intubated, in a coma. The wealthy elites aren't going to hand over the keys of power and production to the American people without a fight. When one doesn't have to toil to survive and has enough resources to live in opulence for 5000 years, it's practically impossible to get that person to admit that the economic system and social order that facilitated their rise to power and financial security has to be replaced with something else.

The failure to adopt a high-tech, non-profit, and democratic system of production is the subjugation of 94% of the American population. We would be forced into techno-feudalism.

The lords of technology would be the wealthy elites who currently have the resources to own the factories and technology, while the working class (the vast majority of people) who currently rely on the rich elites to employ and pay them a wage, would become worthless consumers, living on a government check (UBI). This dead, obsolete pool of human labor, living under a right-wing-run techno-feudalistic economy and plutocratic, authoritarian government, will be consigned to the compost heap. Of course, they're not going to carry out their genocidal plans transparently in the open, they're going to eliminate the "extra weight", through street crime, drugs, mass incarceration, wars, pandemics, and lack of social services like medical care..etc:


Hey we're already giving these worthless bums a monthly income, why should the government provide them with Medicaid or Medicare? Let them rot and die.

The wealthy elites of the future will be living in well-secured and highly developed enclaves, gated communities of absolute abundance, good health, and peace.





Technology will allow the residents of these privileged, elitist communities to eventually adopt a non-profit system of production, no longer needing money or markets. Ironically, the wealthy capitalists become the high-tech, democratic communists. Karl Marx defined communism as:


A stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money.
"A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state (or nation state).[7][8][9]" (1st paragraph - Wikipedia under "Communism")

Source:


The Marxist concept of the "Withering Away Of The State":

Private property isn't personal property. Your house, cars, phone, computers, clothing..etc, is personal property. Private property are properties that are individually owned to generate goods and services for a profit in a marketplace. Marx understood that unlike the primitive communism of our ancestors back in the Stone Age, "high communism" would require highly advanced technology. Today in the early 21st century, unlike ever before, we now have the advanced technology to replace most wage labor with intelligent automation.











 
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Unlike their forebears, contemporary billionaires do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest colony on the moon. In contrast, however avaricious, the titans of past gilded eras still saw themselves as human members of civil society. Contemporary billionaires appear to understand civics and civilians as impediments to their progress, necessary victims of the externalities of their companies’ growth, sad artefacts of the civilisation they will leave behind in their inexorable colonisation of the next dimension. Unlike their forebears, they do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest underground lair in New Zealand, colony on the moon or Mars or virtual reality server in the cloud.

Mr Carnegie actually built Wrexham Library. He also built Coedpoeth Library a couple of mile down the road. He may have been an absolute shit of a man but he was recognisably a member of the human race.

Todays megarich seem to spend their money on insulating themselves from the world rather than helping o improve it.

While Bezos flies to the moon. or tries to, his staff are striking for a living wage so that they can feed themselves and keep a roof over their head. His business model is based on killing the opposition by using debt to undercut his rivals.And taxpayers pay for him to do so by giving him tax breaks and grants to open his sweatshops in our towns.

In fact all of these people have benefitted from lax taxation regimes and feeble legislation.Society pays a lot more than just a financial cost. Wages are depressed as Apple makes its phones in countries where the people assembling the products could never afford one.Its exploitation.

There will never be a British or American phone maker because Apple have priced them out of the market.Exploiting overseas workers in order to bypass the workers in their core markets. Jobs never presented that at his cult meetings.

That is globalism.

Starbucks in the UK is structured to avoid UK taxation.The whole enterprise is a tax dodge. And yet you cannot avoid a starbucks in the UK.They close down smaller traders not with a better product. They do it with the financial might that they have. A power not available to smaller local competitors.

And on top of that they do not contribute to the country they trade in. They trade off our roads and utilities.police protection, education and a host of other benefits.

This is why our governments are always short of money and our infrastructure is crumbling.
We should stop subsidising these bandits and start taxing them properly. They are sucking the life out of society.

It wasnt always like this. My taid worked for over 30 yeasr for an American company Monsanto.They might have a dubious environmental record but they were a bloody good employer.

They paid their staff well and paid a generous pension. The modern billionaire class go on joy rides into space.
That all depends. Is this billionaire just a normal billionaire or is this billionaire my daddy? Cause if he's my daddy I can get all the toys I deserve.
 
Tommy is apparently a communist who believes that the rewards for creating things loved by millions are owned by the state. That's why people in communist societies don't bother attempting to be innovative because guys like Tommy, through the force of government, would just take it all.
 
They can do bad or do good just like everyone. They may be able to make a bigger impact with their good or bad but there is no way to make a vast generalization.

There are lots of ways to make vast generalizations, and all of them are factual.

Wages, as a percentage of costs, are now at the same level as they were in the Gilded Age before there were such things as unions or income taxes.

Executive compensation at American corporations has increased 2000% since 1980. The real value of wages and compensation for American workers has decreased since 1980. Wages for workers have not kept pace with inflation.

80% of the wealth of the nation is now held by 20% of people and corporations in the United States. That number is 50% in Norway and 40% in Canada.

Your current economic model giving all of all of your money to the rich people is not sustainable. A healthy and economically thriving middle class is a necessity to sustain a healthy capital society.

Republicans are killing the goose that laid the golden egg by impoverishing the middle class with their tax cuts to billionaires.
 
There are lots of ways to make vast generalizations, and all of them are factual.

Wages, as a percentage of costs, are now at the same level as they were in the Gilded Age before there were such things as unions or income taxes.

Executive compensation at American corporations has increased 2000% since 1980. The real value of wages and compensation for American workers has decreased since 1980. Wages for workers have not kept pace with inflation.

80% of the wealth of the nation is now held by 20% of people and corporations in the United States. That number is 50% in Norway and 40% in Canada.

Your current economic model giving all of all of your money to the rich people is not sustainable. A healthy and economically thriving middle class is a necessity to sustain a healthy capital society.

Republicans are killing the goose that laid the golden egg by impoverishing the middle class with their tax cuts to billionaires.

Executive compensation at American corporations has increased 2000% since 1980.

No, it hasn't.

Your current economic model giving all of all of your money to the rich people is not sustainable.

Giving?

Republicans are killing the goose that laid the golden egg by impoverishing the middle class with their tax cuts to billionaires.

The top 1% pay a larger share of federal income taxes than ever.
 

Unlike their forebears, contemporary billionaires do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest colony on the moon. In contrast, however avaricious, the titans of past gilded eras still saw themselves as human members of civil society. Contemporary billionaires appear to understand civics and civilians as impediments to their progress, necessary victims of the externalities of their companies’ growth, sad artefacts of the civilisation they will leave behind in their inexorable colonisation of the next dimension. Unlike their forebears, they do not hope to build the biggest house in town, but the biggest underground lair in New Zealand, colony on the moon or Mars or virtual reality server in the cloud.

Mr Carnegie actually built Wrexham Library. He also built Coedpoeth Library a couple of mile down the road. He may have been an absolute shit of a man but he was recognisably a member of the human race.

Todays megarich seem to spend their money on insulating themselves from the world rather than helping o improve it.

While Bezos flies to the moon. or tries to, his staff are striking for a living wage so that they can feed themselves and keep a roof over their head. His business model is based on killing the opposition by using debt to undercut his rivals.And taxpayers pay for him to do so by giving him tax breaks and grants to open his sweatshops in our towns.

In fact all of these people have benefitted from lax taxation regimes and feeble legislation.Society pays a lot more than just a financial cost. Wages are depressed as Apple makes its phones in countries where the people assembling the products could never afford one.Its exploitation.

There will never be a British or American phone maker because Apple have priced them out of the market.Exploiting overseas workers in order to bypass the workers in their core markets. Jobs never presented that at his cult meetings.

That is globalism.

Starbucks in the UK is structured to avoid UK taxation.The whole enterprise is a tax dodge. And yet you cannot avoid a starbucks in the UK.They close down smaller traders not with a better product. They do it with the financial might that they have. A power not available to smaller local competitors.

And on top of that they do not contribute to the country they trade in. They trade off our roads and utilities.police protection, education and a host of other benefits.

This is why our governments are always short of money and our infrastructure is crumbling.
We should stop subsidising these bandits and start taxing them properly. They are sucking the life out of society.

It wasnt always like this. My taid worked for over 30 yeasr for an American company Monsanto.They might have a dubious environmental record but they were a bloody good employer.

They paid their staff well and paid a generous pension. The modern billionaire class go on joy rides into space.
Do you use a smartphone, computer, operating system owned by billionaires?

Is your life any better or worse from that?
 
Executive compensation at American corporations has increased 2000% since 1980.

No, it hasn't.

Your current economic model giving all of all of your money to the rich people is not sustainable.

Giving?

Republicans are killing the goose that laid the golden egg by impoverishing the middle class with their tax cuts to billionaires.

The top 1% pay a larger share of federal income taxes than ever.
If they have 80 percent of all the wealth they should pay more.
 
If they have 80 percent of all the wealth they should pay more.
How would they pay more?

If you built up a company up and it's worth $100mn on paper, and you're on $40,000 a year, should you somehow pay more because the other guy on $40,000 doesn't have a company so he looks $100mn poorer than you? I take it you're employed with a regular pay cheque and are not aware of the business world.
 
Do you use a smartphone, computer, operating system owned by billionaires?

Is your life any better or worse from that?

You're asking all the wrong questions Caveeman. The question isn't whether our lives are better or worse because of the products we own. The question is whether the country is better off when a handful of people control 80% of the wealth of the nation.

The answer is "No", the nation is not better off because of billionaires. Your nation in is the toilet and the waters are swirling because of wealth and wage inequity, which are the worst in the first world.
 
How would they pay more?

If you built up a company up and it's worth $100mn on paper, and you're on $40,000 a year, should you somehow pay more because the other guy on $40,000 doesn't have a company so he looks $100mn poorer than you? I take it you're employed with a regular pay cheque and are not aware of the business world.
If you have a business worth 100 million dollars and you live on 40 grand per year, seek help.
 
How would they pay more?

If you built up a company up and it's worth $100mn on paper, and you're on $40,000 a year, should you somehow pay more because the other guy on $40,000 doesn't have a company so he looks $100mn poorer than you? I take it you're employed with a regular pay cheque and are not aware of the business world.

I take it you've never owned a business in your life, because you're dumber than a sack of hammers.

If you have a company worth $100 million, and the guy next to you doesn't, he doesn't "look" $100 million poorer than you, he IS $100 million poorer than you. Even if your income, on paper, is the same.

Your posts on this subject indicate you have no economic knowledge whatsoever. You don't understand wealth or income.
 
You're asking all the wrong questions Caveeman. The question isn't whether our lives are better or worse because of the products we own. The question is whether the country is better off when a handful of people control 80% of the wealth of the nation.

The answer is "No", the nation is not better off because of billionaires. Your nation in is the toilet and the waters are swirling because of wealth and wage inequity, which are the worst in the first world.
Well, you go to Palestine, North Korea, Venezuela etc.. and you report back how it's brilliant over there with very few, if any, billionaires. People forever knock their own country where they live in but ignore the shit hole countries.

So I suggest you pack your bags and go and get that experience.
 
I take it you've never owned a business in your life, because you're dumber than a sack of hammers.

If you have a company worth $100 million, and the guy next to you doesn't, he doesn't "look" $100 million poorer than you, he IS $100 million poorer than you. Even if your income, on paper, is the same.

Your posts on this subject indicate you have no economic knowledge whatsoever. You don't understand wealth or income.
Yes, I own my own company, I'm self employed Limited company since 2004 with 100% of the Ordinary Shares

Musk's salary pay slip is $0.00. Oh infinite business wisdom one, you tell me how you would get him to pay his "fair share" of tax?

Your posts on the subject make you look like a right thick bellend.
 
If you have a business worth 100 million dollars and you live on 40 grand per year, seek help.
Musk's payslip is $0.00. Is he seeking help?

You thickos don't have a clue how it all works. You honestly believe there are only payslips on the planet. I'm flypaper for idiots.
 

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