Do atheists believe that everything in life must be perfect for a Creator to exist?

[frigidweirdo]

Do atheists believe that everything in life must be perfect for a Creator to exist?

I kind of think they do believe that. What do you say?

I'm not atheist, but I also think the chances of a god existing are slim to non-existent.

Arguments for god existing range from "it says so in the Bible, therefore it must be true" to "things can't appear out of nowhere, which is why I think God appeared out of nowhere".

That wasn't the question though.

Oh well, so it's not the question so you can totally avoid answering, is that right? I mean, it's basically part of the topic. But again on this issue, you just ignore things that are inconvenient, then you'll find the "truth" you're seeking, because you've ignored all the other stuff.

 

[buttercup]

Ok, thank you, that seems to make sense. But it leaves open many other questions.

Yeah. I think ding wanted to see if other atheists felt that way too, but this thread was mostly misunderstood... and then it turned into just another theism vs atheism thread.

I do think the topic of perfection is interesting, and as you said opens up many other questions.

 

[MaryL]

Some of us wonder what kind of god we have. I mean, IF there is a god. Suffer the little children? All those childhood diseases and abuse.. God may be perfect, but a perfect WHAT? Oh, it's a test. Of whom? Like god doesn't already know the answer? Please.

 

[buttercup]

Some of us wonder what kind of god we have. I mean, IF there is a god. Suffer the little children? All those childhood diseases and abuse.. God may be perfect, but a perfect WHAT?

From a biblical perspective, this is a fallen world. It wasn’t like this in the beginning, in the beginning everything was very good, it was pretty much paradise. THAT was God’s original design, and perfect will which has never changed...and which will ultimately be restored.

But because we have free will, God allows us to make bad choices, and that is precisely what mankind did, and continues to do. That is why this world changed in the first place, and why it is still screwed up. There’s much more to it than that, there’s also an ongoing spiritual battle that has taken place almost since Day One. And according to the Bible, the temporary “god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4) is satan, the enemy of God. There really is a spiritual realm of darkness, which is another reason why there is so much evil in this world.

 

[MaryL]

I get a little annoyed with myself for expecting GOD to do the right thing. Car accidents, tornados, wars, childhood diseases . Hell, I pray, and God can't even fix my plumbing. But this is a "test". Always I hear that. God can stick his witto tests up his ear. I don't care anymore.

 

[ding]

I get a little annoyed with myself for expecting GOD to do the right thing. Car accidents, tornados, wars, childhood diseases . Hell, I pray, and God can't even fix my plumbing. But this is a "test". Always I hear that. God can stick his witto tests up his ear. I don't care anymore.

Sounds like you are failing the tests.

 

[ding]

Do atheists believe that everything in life must be perfect for a Creator to exist?

I kind of think they do believe that. What do you say?

I'm not atheist, but I also think the chances of a god existing are slim to non-existent.

Arguments for god existing range from "it says so in the Bible, therefore it must be true" to "things can't appear out of nowhere, which is why I think God appeared out of nowhere".

That wasn't the question though.

Oh well, so it's not the question so you can totally avoid answering, is that right? I mean, it's basically part of the topic. But again on this issue, you just ignore things that are inconvenient, then you'll find the "truth" you're seeking, because you've ignored all the other stuff.

You didn't ask a question.

I asked the question and you didn't answer it.

 

[ding]

Are you a deist?

Nope. Deist believe in only one god. I believe what one would call god has a creator as well.

Well apparently you have a different definition of God. To me, if something is created then it can’t be God, the Creator. I know that the word “god” is sometimes used to describe powerful beings, like how in ancient times fallen angels (what some of you here think are aliens) were thought of as “gods.” But they still were created beings.

I am still not sure what you believe, but anyway...

Take AI for instance. Humans created it. Are we now gods or at least the people that actually worked on it? I believe we were created just like AI was created.

There is little doubt that space and time were created. We are a byproduct of that creation.

You can't create either space or time
It just exists

No true. Space and time began ~14 billion years ago. It was created from nothing.

 

[BreezeWood]

Nope. Deist believe in only one god. I believe what one would call god has a creator as well.

Well apparently you have a different definition of God. To me, if something is created then it can’t be God, the Creator. I know that the word “god” is sometimes used to describe powerful beings, like how in ancient times fallen angels (what some of you here think are aliens) were thought of as “gods.” But they still were created beings.

I am still not sure what you believe, but anyway...

Take AI for instance. Humans created it. Are we now gods or at least the people that actually worked on it? I believe we were created just like AI was created.

There is little doubt that space and time were created. We are a byproduct of that creation.

You can't create either space or time
It just exists

No true. Space and time began ~14 billion years ago. It was created from nothing.

.

No true. Space and time began ~14 billion years ago. It was created from nothing.

you are a joke, our time as a subset - what's your special definition for space, no subset there and you believe it began 14 billion years ago ....

 

[ThisIsMe]

My question about the evolution theory is this: why are humans unique? We are the only species on the planet capable of articulate vocal communication, we are presumed to be the only ones who are self aware, and the only ones capable of critical higher thinking. Even if other species could do any of those, we are the only ones who can do all of them.

For everything to have come from the big bang, and all the material that started evolution, we are all made up of it. How is it that there are no other species even similar with some of the same capabilities, most notably, speech.

 

[ThisIsMe]

The thing is, with evolution, it's all theory, there are no facts supporting it.

With the Bible, it's people that lived a long time ago, during the time of Jesus, and after.

So, you either believe a book written up to nearly 2000 years ago, or modern day scientists who are just making guesses.

Both require faith to believe.

 

[Taz]

Do atheists believe that everything in life must be perfect for a Creator to exist?

I kind of think they do believe that. What do you say?

No, no even close. Atheists don't believe in an invisible superbeing who cares if we follow a book or not.

 

[ThisIsMe]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

 

[hobelim]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

I think they are intellectually lazy. The glanced at medieval paintings of an old man in the sky and started mocking the image without ever thinking deeply enough about it to realize that thats not even what the artist believed.

 

[Asclepias]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

I dont believe in a religious god. I believe there was a creator. I think it could give a shit what we do. My main reason for this way of thinking is the harm a supposedly religious god has allowed to happen to "good" people. Also it makes zero sense. If god was this all knowing judge why the drama? If you know someone is going to blow away some people praying in church why not give that person a massive heart attack the moment before he pulls the trigger? I think the bullshit excuse that god moves in mysterious ways is just that. Bullshit. Why should someone believe that?

 

[Taz]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

No real proof.

 

[ThisIsMe]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

I dont believe in a religious god. I believe there was a creator. I think it could give a shit what we do. My main reason for this way of thinking is the harm a supposedly religious god has allowed to happen to "good" people. Also it makes zero sense. If god was this all knowing judge why the drama? If you know someone is going to blow away some people praying in church why not give that person a massive heart attack the moment before he pulls the trigger? I think the bullshit excuse that god moves in mysterious ways is just that. Bullshit. Why should someone believe that?

Well, I understand where you are coming from. I think it's more than "mysterious ways". I think most Christian's believe that God is not in control of this world right now, satan is the one ruling this earth at the moment. Thus the reason why so much bad stuff is happening.

 

[ThisIsMe]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

No real proof.

But there also is no real proof of evolution either, so what would make you choose to have a belief in an evolutionary system, as opposed to a religious God created system?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

No real proof.

But there also is no real proof of evolution either, so what would make you choose to have a belief in an evolutionary system, as opposed to a religious God created system?

Wrong.

Evolution is a fact, no ‘belief’ required.

There are theories as to the specific mechanics of the fact of evolution, but it is a settled and accepted fact beyond dispute that organisms evolve, adapt to changing environments, and undergo genetic mutation.

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

For those that do not believe in God, I would be curious as to why you dont believe.

It’s not a matter of ‘not believing,’ it’s acknowledging the fact that there is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists.

The mistake theists make is to arrogantly believe that ‘god’ exists as ‘fact,’ and that those free from religion reject the ‘fact’ of ‘god’ – when indeed nothing could be further from the truth.

Religion and ‘god’ are creations of man; ‘god’ exists as an idea, as religious ritual, as a metaphor for that which is positive about human existence.

But there is no omnipotent extraterrestrial deity that hears prayers, intercedes on behalf of humans, and issues edicts of religious dogma all must obey lest transgressors are consigned to eternal damnation – that ‘god’ in fact does not exist.

And because all religions, gods, and deities are creations of man – imbued with man’s fears, hatred, and imperfections as are all things created by man – it’s perfectly appropriate and warranted to acknowledge the fact that religion is completely devoid of secular authority, the sole purview of individual belief and subjective adherence.