Diebold now admits serious flaw in ALL software

[sealybobo]

even the current versions - even the ones that were to replace faulty versions -

Even the audit log system on current versions of Premier Election Solutions' (formerly Diebold's) electronic voting and tabulating systems --- used in some 34 states across the nation --- fail to record the wholesale deletion of ballots. Even when ballots are deleted on the same day as an election. That's the shocking admission heard today from Justin Bales, Premier's Western Region manager, at a State of California public hearing on the possible decertification of Diebold/Premier's tabulator system, GEMS v. 1.18.19.

The BRAD BLOG : Diebold Admits Audit Logs in ALL Versions of Their Software Fail to Record Ballot Deletions

And the amount that we paid for Help America Vote Act? 4 Billion. That is 20 times the amount of these AIG bonuses.

I can't see the Bradblog from work anymore, but I know all about it. ES&S, Diebold, Sequoia voting machines, all Bush backers.

But yes, most people were not told by the "liberal media" that they tested the voting machines in California last year and the year before and they found all kinds of problems.

PS. I have a friend in Canada who owns a voting machine company. They sell theirs to NY and a couple other states.

So it is true, we buy some of our voting machines from other countries.

That doesn't seem very American. We can't even buy American when it comes to our votes? What is wrong with this country???

 

[KittenKoder]

Nope they wanted solutions, the Rs came up with the electronic voting for one reason only.

Wow ... since when are dems so stuck on being archaic? Seriously, welcome to the 21st fucking century, and if you don't like technology then stop using it.

Gah! Why does everyone want to blame the technology for people being so stupid?

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Exactly ... Dems use to be gun-ho about technology expansion ... now suddenly they are finding ways to blame all the woes on it? Really, I don't think I will support them any more than a Rep for a while.

 

[KittenKoder]

Wow ... since when are dems so stuck on being archaic? Seriously, welcome to the 21st fucking century, and if you don't like technology then stop using it.

Gah! Why does everyone want to blame the technology for people being so stupid?

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Who demanded these new machines?

And who said, "get them from companies that donate heavily to the Bush campaign".

And who told them to write the software so it would be hackable?

Anyways, you denied these machines had a problem, and now your argument is that the Dems wanted them?

Proof?

This is like WMD's and torture and bonus' and retro immunity to telecoms and freddy/fanny mack.

We cried about these things, and you denied these things were problems, and now that they are proven problems, you want to say the Dems asked for it?

Amazing!!

All the mistakes went in GW Bush's favor. If 55% went in his favor and 45% went in Gore/Kerry's favor, then it would be a "mistake"

But when 95% of the mistakes went in Bush's favor, that's fraud/corruption.

Don't be a schmuck.

Dude ... ALL software is "hackable' ... especially when you have direct access to the damned machines.

 

[DiveCon]

Wow ... since when are dems so stuck on being archaic? Seriously, welcome to the 21st fucking century, and if you don't like technology then stop using it.

Gah! Why does everyone want to blame the technology for people being so stupid?

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Who demanded these new machines?

And who said, "get them from companies that donate heavily to the Bush campaign".

And who told them to write the software so it would be hackable?

Anyways, you denied these machines had a problem, and now your argument is that the Dems wanted them?

Proof?

This is like WMD's and torture and bonus' and retro immunity to telecoms and freddy/fanny mack.

We cried about these things, and you denied these things were problems, and now that they are proven problems, you want to say the Dems asked for it?

Amazing!!

All the mistakes went in GW Bush's favor. If 55% went in his favor and 45% went in Gore/Kerry's favor, then it would be a "mistake"

But when 95% of the mistakes went in Bush's favor, that's fraud/corruption.

Don't be a schmuck.

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

 

[sealybobo]

Wow ... since when are dems so stuck on being archaic? Seriously, welcome to the 21st fucking century, and if you don't like technology then stop using it.

Gah! Why does everyone want to blame the technology for people being so stupid?

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Exactly ... Dems use to be gun-ho about technology expansion ... now suddenly they are finding ways to blame all the woes on it? Really, I don't think I will support them any more than a Rep for a while.

Oh, excuse them for figuring out that the Republicans figured out a way to hack these machines and steal our last two elections.

 

[KittenKoder]

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Exactly ... Dems use to be gun-ho about technology expansion ... now suddenly they are finding ways to blame all the woes on it? Really, I don't think I will support them any more than a Rep for a while.

Oh, excuse them for figuring out that the Republicans figured out a way to hack these machines and steal our last two elections.

Really? I am shocked you give them that much credit ...

... it takes a lot of technical know how and intelligence to hack something. It would be more believable to me that the Dems would have been able to hack them and not the Reps, but it seems more each day that I seriously got the intelligence of the parties confused when I was younger. Thanks for showing me that the Reps are more intelligent than the Dems now, I will change my support and from now on back every Rep politician. By the way, if you hadn't figured out, I only side with people who are NOT technophobes.

 

[sealybobo]

they werent in 2001, they demanded these newer machines

Who demanded these new machines?

And who said, "get them from companies that donate heavily to the Bush campaign".

And who told them to write the software so it would be hackable?

Anyways, you denied these machines had a problem, and now your argument is that the Dems wanted them?

Proof?

This is like WMD's and torture and bonus' and retro immunity to telecoms and freddy/fanny mack.

We cried about these things, and you denied these things were problems, and now that they are proven problems, you want to say the Dems asked for it?

Amazing!!

All the mistakes went in GW Bush's favor. If 55% went in his favor and 45% went in Gore/Kerry's favor, then it would be a "mistake"

But when 95% of the mistakes went in Bush's favor, that's fraud/corruption.

Don't be a schmuck.

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

 

[DiveCon]

Who demanded these new machines?

And who said, "get them from companies that donate heavily to the Bush campaign".

And who told them to write the software so it would be hackable?

Anyways, you denied these machines had a problem, and now your argument is that the Dems wanted them?

Proof?

This is like WMD's and torture and bonus' and retro immunity to telecoms and freddy/fanny mack.

We cried about these things, and you denied these things were problems, and now that they are proven problems, you want to say the Dems asked for it?

Amazing!!

All the mistakes went in GW Bush's favor. If 55% went in his favor and 45% went in Gore/Kerry's favor, then it would be a "mistake"

But when 95% of the mistakes went in Bush's favor, that's fraud/corruption.

Don't be a schmuck.

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

 

[sealybobo]

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Find the lies:

TALLAHASSEE - A political operative with hacking skills could alter the results of any election on Diebold-made voting machines -- and possibly other new voting systems in Florida -- according to the state capital's election supervisor, who said Diebold software has failed repeated tests.

Ion Sancho, Leon County's election chief, said tests by two computer experts, completed this week, showed that an insider could surreptitiously change vote results and the number of ballots cast on Diebold's optical-scan machines.

After receiving county commission approval Tuesday, Sancho scrapped Diebold's system for one made by Elections Systems and Software, the same provider used by Miami-Dade and Broward counties. The difference between the systems: Sancho's machines use a fill-in-the-blank paper ballot that allows for after-the-fact manual recounts, while Broward and Miami-Dade use ATM-like touchscreens that leave no paper trail.

''That's kind of scary. If there's no paper trail, you have to rely solely on electronic results. And now we know that they can be manipulated under the right conditions, without a person even leaving a fingerprint,'' said Sancho, who once headed the state's elections supervisors association.

The Leon County test results are likely to further fuel suspicions that the new electronic voting systems in Florida, in place since the 2002 elections, are susceptible to manipulation.

When the debate hit fever pitch before last year's presidential election, many conservatives said questions about the machinery were a liberal ploy to undermine confidence in the voting system.

Elections chiefs in Broward and Miami-Dade said Wednesday they have good security and are not particularly concerned -- though both have had ''glitches'' that have been tough to explain.

Sancho agrees that good security is key, but said he's not sure he won't also have problems with the $1.3 million ES&S system, which he'll also test.

DIEBOLD USERS

Twenty-nine counties, including Monroe, use different versions of paper-ballot voting systems manufactured by Diebold, a leading manufacturer of security systems and voting machines. One county uses Diebold touchscreens.

A spokesman for Diebold Election Systems Inc. could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

Sancho said Diebold isn't the only one to blame for hacker-prone equipment. The Florida secretary of state's office should have caught these problems early on, he said, and the Legislature should scrap a law severely restricting recounts on touch-screen machines and equip them with the means of producing a paper trail.

A spokeswoman for the secretary of state's office said any faults Sancho found were between him and Diebold.

''If Ion Sancho has security concerns with his system, he needs to discuss them with Diebold,'' spokeswoman Jenny Nash said.

Sancho first clashed with Diebold in May, when he teamed up with a nonprofit election-monitoring group called BlackBoxVoting.org, which has made a crusade of showing that electronic voting machines are subject to fraud. BlackBox hired Herbert Thompson, a computer-science professor and strategist at Security Innovation, which tests software for companies such as Google and Microsoft.

Thompson couldn't hack into the system from the outside. So Sancho gave him access to the central machine that tabulates votes and to the last school election at Leon County High.

Thompson told The Herald he was ''shocked'' at how easy it was to get in, make the loser the winner and leave without a trace. The machine asked for a user name and password, but didn't require it, he said. That meant it had not just a ''front door, but a back door as big as a garage,'' Thompson said.

From there, Thompson said, he typed five lines of computer code -- and switched 5,000 votes from one candidate to another.

''I am positive an eighth grader could do this,'' Thompson said.

After BlackBox and Sancho announced the results, Diebold's senior lawyer, Michael Lindroos, wrote Sancho, Leon County and the state of Florida questioning the results and calling the test ''a very foolish and irresponsible act'' that may have violated licensing agreements.

Over the past few months, computer expert Harri Hursti tried to manipulate election results with the memory card inserted into each Diebold voting machine. The card records votes during an election, then at the end of the day is taken to a central location where results are totaled.

Hursti figured out how to hack into the memory card by using an agricultural scanning device easily available on the Internet, said BlackBox founder Bev Harris. He learned how to hide votes, make losers out of winners and leave no trace, she said.

Hursti couldn't be reached for comment.

With some variation, both Miami-Dade and Broward use these cartridge-like cards to record votes and report election results. Experts like Thompson say they believe the counties could be subject to electronic ballot-rigging -- which would be hard to detect and correct without a paper trail.

FINAL TEST

Sancho said he tried to discuss the problems with Diebold, but met with resistance. On Monday, he did one final test with Hursti at the Leon County supervisor's office, Hursti hacked the memory card to spit out seven ''yes'' votes on an issue and one ''no'' vote.

Then, six ''no'' votes and two ''yes'' votes were cast into the machine the same way voters would. Those results didn't show up in the final tally -- just the ones hacked into the card.

Officials for ES&S, which makes the systems used in Miami-Dade and Broward counties, couldn't be reached for comment Wednesday.

Seth Kaplan, a spokesman for the Miami-Dade elections office, said officials continually monitor the quality and security of their machines.

''The problem of election fraud predates current technology by hundreds of years. We have people we trust and in our case we have checks to reconcile the results,'' Kaplan said.

But Broward's election supervisor, Brenda Snipes, said she's at least intrigued. She, too, vouches for her office's security, but says there's a need to remain vigilant.

''Is hacking possible? We think we have a secure system. With technology, those people who have that level of expertise, I guess that could be possible,'' Snipes said. ``We need to see what Ion did. He tries a lot of things. He's always analyzing things.''

But Sancho said the time for passive monitoring is over. The Diebold problems show that simple tests haven't been done on at least one major voting system, he said.

''These were sold as safe systems. They passed tests as safe systems,'' Sancho said. ``But even in the so-called safe system, if you don't follow the paper ballots, there is a way to rig the election. Except it's not a bunch of guys stuffing ballots in a precinct. It's possibly one person acting in secret changing thousands of votes in a second.''

 

[sealybobo]

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Sorry, here is the one I wanted you to disprove. You can't.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 9,676 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

You right wingers are amazing. You denied and even suggested Gore was the one who tried to steal the election, and now you have the balls to even discuss this issue with us?

You ignored Diebold fraud because it benefitted your party, you partisan hack.

 

[KittenKoder]

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Sorry, here is the one I wanted you to disprove. You can't.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 9,676 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

You right wingers are amazing. You denied and even suggested Gore was the one who tried to steal the election, and now you have the balls to even discuss this issue with us?

You ignored Diebold fraud because it benefitted your party, you partisan hack.

Great ... I just lost all respect for you dude.

 

[sealybobo]

liar, i never said the machines didnt have problems
i only said they weren't INTENTIONAL to steal an election

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Anyways, we have too much proof to back up our assumptions for you to suggest we are making this up.

Your slant on things sounds a lot more like bullshit than Thom's op ed piece which backs up what he says with links, names, details, etc.

What do you have?

 

[DiveCon]

If 55% of the time the mistakes went to Bush, then it would be a mistake. If 95% of the time the errors went in Bush's favor, that is election fraud.

Overwhelmingly the errors went to Bush.

Wake up.

I have posted the facts several times from Thom Hartmann/Common Dreams and you made fun of the source. So, you don't want to know the facts.

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Sorry, here is the one I wanted you to disprove. You can't.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 9,676 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

You right wingers are amazing. You denied and even suggested Gore was the one who tried to steal the election, and now you have the balls to even discuss this issue with us?

You ignored Diebold fraud because it benefitted your party, you partisan hack.

just because someone is a democrat it doesnt mean they ONLY VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS
an in FL that was a huge part of the vote
lots of them vote democrats on the lower parts of the ballot but vote republican on the top
you are just too fucking stupid to understand that

 

[DiveCon]

you dont have any proof of that claim
those sites are NOT RELIABLE
they are leftwing moonbat hack sites

you wake the fuck up

Sorry, here is the one I wanted you to disprove. You can't.

In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In Dixie County, with 9,676 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.

Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

You right wingers are amazing. You denied and even suggested Gore was the one who tried to steal the election, and now you have the balls to even discuss this issue with us?

You ignored Diebold fraud because it benefitted your party, you partisan hack.

Great ... I just lost all respect for you dude.

he hasnt ever had my respect, he lost that early on
didnt take me long to figure out he is a fucking moron

 

[KittenKoder]

Bobo ... time to be serious a moment, DiveCon is correct, I haven't voted Democrat since Bill left office, I mean the candidates who actually get the ticket are just ... well .. lame lately.

Also, anyone who defends the con artist Gore for any reason is either a con artist themself or really misinformed.

 

[garyd]

Not a shred of evidence to support that conclusion on either level Bobo but I expect nothing from you other than baseless accusations.

 

[Caligirl]

Just jumping in to point out the obvious, which is that we should be aware of the vulnerabilities of our election systems. Whether there has been corruption or not through the years is another issue. The issue here is that Diebold is admitting that their software, including current software, does not record wholesale deletions (any deletions) on the audit. This is the latest in a string of major concerns with the machines.

The audit does not record what many would agree is suspicious activity. The manufacturer admits this, in response to pressure from people (watchdogs) in CA who noticed the glitch last year. Earlier last year, under lawsuit in OH, Diebold admitted that votes in urban precincts may overload the system and fail to be counted. They did not admit this until they were sued in OH.

Many hacks have been demonstrated on Diebold (and other) machines, despite the strenuous objections of Diebold (etc) that their machines were safe.

None of this necessarily means that Diebold is a bunch of crooks, but it does mean, absolutely, that we can't have much trust in our voting systems. They are:

(1) proprietary, generally speaking, because they are run by private companies, so not available to scrutiny by the general public. We are asked to trust them.

(2) susceptible to many different hacks without leaving a trail

(3) flawed in that they drop votes in heavy districts

(4) flawed in that the audit logs do not record ballot deletions

... Every few months something new comes out that is bad news for electronic machines. You may wish to continue using them because of some personal baggage about FL 2000, or you may wish to keep yourself informed. I don't care, but the idea that it is a partisan issue is a complete distraction.

 

[garyd]

Which my friend favors the unscrupulous regardless of party affiliation.

 

[DiveCon]

Just jumping in to point out the obvious, which is that we should be aware of the vulnerabilities of our election systems. Whether there has been corruption or not through the years is another issue. The issue here is that Diebold is admitting that their software, including current software, does not record wholesale deletions (any deletions) on the audit. This is the latest in a string of major concerns with the machines.

The audit does not record what many would agree is suspicious activity. The manufacturer admits this, in response to pressure from people (watchdogs) in CA who noticed the glitch last year. Earlier last year, under lawsuit in OH, Diebold admitted that votes in urban precincts may overload the system and fail to be counted. They did not admit this until they were sued in OH.

Many hacks have been demonstrated on Diebold (and other) machines, despite the strenuous objections of Diebold (etc) that their machines were safe.

None of this necessarily means that Diebold is a bunch of crooks, but it does mean, absolutely, that we can't have much trust in our voting systems. They are:

(1) proprietary, generally speaking, because they are run by private companies, so not available to scrutiny by the general public. We are asked to trust them.

(2) susceptible to many different hacks without leaving a trail

(3) flawed in that they drop votes in heavy districts

(4) flawed in that the audit logs do not record ballot deletions

... Every few months something new comes out that is bad news for electronic machines. You may wish to continue using them because of some personal baggage about FL 2000, or you may wish to keep yourself informed. I don't care, but the idea that it is a partisan issue is a complete distraction.

actually, a lot of those things you list as problems, are NOT
#1, having open source means it would be MUCH easier to make a hack

#2 is blatantly false
#3 its a flaw, not a thing that was planned

#4 if it was a flaw, how would the program be able to record it?


i still say the best way for voting is the optical scan ballot
they are able to be read both by hand and by machines

 

[Caligirl]

Which my friend favors the unscrupulous regardless of party affiliation.

Sure, and then you can look at demographics and ask who benefits the most to one or the other party in power, and who has the most ready access to the machines.

Or you can insist on keeping yourself and the rest of the public informed, and holding to basic american principles such as all men created equal, and by extension the importance of an accurate vote count.