Did Jesus really exist?

[JoeB131]

[


the Romans kept records on his trial and execution

Um, no, they didn't.

 

[Hollie]

You're perpetually confused. I've written out that impregnation by magic and supernatural means derive from tales and fables.

???....can something no longer be questioned once you've "written it out"?....

Of course it can be questioned. That's why I questioned your insistence that impregnation by magic/supernaturalism has actually happened. I questioned your ability to provide a single, verifiable example of such a thing happening.

And you haven't.

 

[Flopper]

Could make the same convincing arguement Jesus didn't exist with any figure from antiquity. Did Alexander the Great really exist? Ghengis Khan?

Like Jesus, these figures are said to have once existed as flesh and blood. We all know their names. But can we prove they actually existed if they're just bones now and their bones look like everybody else's?

What does it matter?

Once you have proof beyond question, Christianity is no longer a religion because no faith is required, it's then a matter of fact.

 

[sealybobo]

On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.

Here's why I think he was.

1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.

2) He is not mentioned by a lot of contemporary writers who should have noticed him.

3) He shares a lot of traits with other mythological figures.

They say the Roman history writers would not have written about a small cult's leader. He would have focused on Ponchus Pilot and Roman history, not the Jews history.

I call bullshit. A few months ago I said Christianity is just a cult that was spread by 11 guys and only those 11 saw Jesus do miracles. Then someone pointed out that supposedly 500 people saw it.

If that many people saw it, how come it didn't make it into the history books? Maybe because the Roman's didn't believe it then. If they didn't believe it then, why should we believe it happened now?

And isn't it interesting that it was the Jews, who did not apparently keep track of history, that apparently witnessed Jesus resurrection? Actually, the Jews don't even buy that he was the Messiah so really we would have to take the word of the 500 or less people who apparently bought into this new cult.

Do we believe what modern day cult members say No we do not. Yet that is exactly what modern day Christians are doing. They believe a fairy tale that can not be substantiated.

 

[PostmodernProph]

On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.

Here's why I think he was.

1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.

2) He is not mentioned by a lot of contemporary writers who should have noticed him.

3) He shares a lot of traits with other mythological figures.

They say the Roman history writers would not have written about a small cult's leader. He would have focused on Ponchus Pilot and Roman history, not the Jews history.

I call bullshit. A few months ago I said Christianity is just a cult that was spread by 11 guys and only those 11 saw Jesus do miracles. Then someone pointed out that supposedly 500 people saw it.

If that many people saw it, how come it didn't make it into the history books?

???....how many people do you think were writing "history books" in that era.....500?.....11?....

 

[THE LIGHT]

On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.

Here's why I think he was.

1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.

Nope. No contradictions. Only differences in viewpoint as would be expected by credible witnesses in a court of law. If everyone had the same made up story then something would be fishy. Your statement contradicts itself in logic anyway because if they collaborated and wrote the gospels at a later date then they would have fixed them discrepancies don't you think?

2) He is not mentioned by a lot of contemporary writers who should have noticed him.

Nor are a lot of other people that no one denies exists.

The date today is??? Oh yeah, 2014 A.D. I rest my case.

3) He shares a lot of traits with other mythological figures.

Myths often surround true facts.

 

[MaxGrit]

 

[THE LIGHT]

Presumedly, if he did he turned to dust a long time ago so good luck proving it.

I'd say he existed in as much as Santa exists. We know who someone's talking about when they bring Jesus (or Santa) up, we have an idea what he looked like, and why he's famous. Whether such people were ever flesh and blood would seem to matter less since we speak of them as though they once were.

You do? What did Santa look like and who was he?

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

 

[JoeB131]

On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.

Here's why I think he was.

1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.

Nope. No contradictions. Only differences in viewpoint as would be expected by credible witnesses in a court of law. If everyone had the same made up story then something would be fishy. Your statement contradicts itself in logic anyway because if they collaborated and wrote the gospels at a later date then they would have fixed them discrepancies don't you think?
.

Um. No.

There's a HUGE contradiction at the beginning of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

Now, both Matt and Luke plagiarize heavily from Mark's Gospel. In fact, 96% of Mark is repeated in one or both of them. But Mark didn't talk about Jesus' early life.

Luke and Matthew decide to throw in the virgin birth in Bethlehem part of the story and trace JC's genealogy back to King David to up his street cred as the Messiah. The problem was, of course, they were making this shit up on the fly. So of course, their "genealogies" list difference people as Jesus' ancestors, and both trace his lineage through Joseph, who wasn't actually his father. It was supposedly God who got his sticky man Juice in the "Virgin" Mary.

The Hilarity gets even better. Matthew's Jesus is born in Bethlehem but Joseph Flees to Egypt and then Galilee because King Herod went on a baby-killing rampage just like Pharaoh did when Moses was born. (Plagiarism Alert)

Luke's Jesus was born in Bethlehem because Roman Governor Quirinius ordered a census that required his family to come down from Galilee to get counted. Which is where you get the whole "Born in a Barn!" bit.

Now here's where we have a HUGE problem. Herod died in 4 BCE. Which means Jesus had to have been born between 6-4 BCE for the story to work. MEANWHILE- Quirinius was governor of Syria and Judea (but not Galilee) form 6 AD to 12 AD.

So now you have a 10-18 year gap as to when Jesus was born.

or they were just making this shit up.

 

[PostmodernProph]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

 

[Flopper]

On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.

Here's why I think he was.

1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.

Nope. No contradictions. Only differences in viewpoint as would be expected by credible witnesses in a court of law. If everyone had the same made up story then something would be fishy. Your statement contradicts itself in logic anyway because if they collaborated and wrote the gospels at a later date then they would have fixed them discrepancies don't you think?
.

Um. No.

There's a HUGE contradiction at the beginning of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

Now, both Matt and Luke plagiarize heavily from Mark's Gospel. In fact, 96% of Mark is repeated in one or both of them. But Mark didn't talk about Jesus' early life.

Luke and Matthew decide to throw in the virgin birth in Bethlehem part of the story and trace JC's genealogy back to King David to up his street cred as the Messiah. The problem was, of course, they were making this shit up on the fly. So of course, their "genealogies" list difference people as Jesus' ancestors, and both trace his lineage through Joseph, who wasn't actually his father. It was supposedly God who got his sticky man Juice in the "Virgin" Mary.

The Hilarity gets even better. Matthew's Jesus is born in Bethlehem but Joseph Flees to Egypt and then Galilee because King Herod went on a baby-killing rampage just like Pharaoh did when Moses was born. (Plagiarism Alert)

Luke's Jesus was born in Bethlehem because Roman Governor Quirinius ordered a census that required his family to come down from Galilee to get counted. Which is where you get the whole "Born in a Barn!" bit.

Now here's where we have a HUGE problem. Herod died in 4 BCE. Which means Jesus had to have been born between 6-4 BCE for the story to work. MEANWHILE- Quirinius was governor of Syria and Judea (but not Galilee) form 6 AD to 12 AD.

So now you have a 10-18 year gap as to when Jesus was born.

or they were just making this shit up.

One can understand some discrepancies in reporting Jesus's life because in his time, most people were illiterate. Information was passed by word of mouth. To accept Christianity, you have to accept the fact there are some discrepancies and gaps in the Bible. That's what makes Christianity a religion that you accept on faith and not just a set of documented historical facts.

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

 

[PostmodernProph]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

 

[Indeependent]

I want to discuss the misquotes and mistranslations in TNT.
Just like St. Jerome did.
So please, MORE St. Jerome!

 

[PostmodernProph]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

I would prefer if you would stay on topic.

 

[Disir]

"The star appeared in the East, so brilliant that it seemed to rival the sun and set the night sky aflame. The luminous tail curved across a quarter of the heavens, as long as the Milky Way. The year was 135 BC.
Across Anatolia, and from the Caucasus to Persia, the comet was greeted with rejoicing. According to well known prophecies a bright new light in the sky would announce the coming of a savior king, a messiah or great leader who would triumph over enemies. Four generations later, another marvelous star in the East would lead the Magi to the little town of Bethlehem to honor the humble birth of another savior. But before the Star of Bethlehem there was the Star of Sinope. The comet of 135 BC coincided with the birth of Mithradates VI Eupator Dionysus, in Sinope, capital of Pontus on the Black Sea."
The infants family name, Mithradates (Old Persian Mithradatha, "sent by Mithra"), commemorated the ancient Iranian (Persian) god of Sun, Light and Truth. In ancient Persian traditions, a great fire or light from the heavens had accompanied Mithra's birth. According to the Roman historian Justin, two heavenly portents foretold the future greatness of the newborn prince of Pontus. "In the year that Mithradates was begotten, and again when he first began to rule, comets blazed forth with such splendor that the whole sky seemed to be on fire."
Another comet coincided with him becoming king in 119 BC.
The interesting thing about comets is that they scared the crap out of Romans. All of those places that were listed above? They were anti-Rome.
Those comets were documented in China by the Hans Dynasty astrologers. They happened.

"In the East, hopes for salvation grew. The most famous apocalyptic revelation was an ancient Iranian prophecy known as the Oracle of Hystaspes, a Persian-Babylonian sage. The oracle foretold the destruction of Rome by fire and sword and the coming of a savior king from the East whose birth would be proclaimed by a brilliant light from heaven. Another prophecy, the Zorastrian apocalyptic scripture of the third century BC called the Bahman Yasht, envisioned an avenging savior who would be born under a shooting star
: this prince would drive foreign tyrants out of Asia."

Egypt same thing.

I'd bet that you have no idea who this cat is. In 88 BCE, in approximately 12 cities across Anatolia about 80,000 Romans and Italians were massacred at about the same time. It was orchestrated by Mithradates and it was done without any of the conspirators letting the cat out of the bag.

Mayor, A. (2010). A Savior is Born in a Castle by the Sea. In The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates Rome's Deadliest Enemy (pp. 27-42). Princeton: Princeton University Press.

So, are you ready for Alexandria or do you need me to explain the Greco-Persian wars real quick or mayhap the genealogy of Mithradates? He's the result of the Persian Kings and the family of Alexander the Great (not as great as dear old dad).

 

[Disir]

because TNT is so filled with holdovers from Greek Mythology.

got any documentation of that absurd claim?.....

Are you kidding?
Demons, withering hands, Satan.
In fact, are you fucking kidding?

yes....I was kidding...l knew you would not be able to document it so when I asked for documentation, it was a joke.....

I'll do it. But, I need a day off so that I can pull my stuff out. It would have more than mythos. Although, I'm not going to war with you. I simply find that aspect fascinating.

do me a favor and come up with something new....I'm tired of repeating why Dionyses did not have a virgin birth.....

I don't have to go to Dionyses if I want to talk about the virgin birth.

St. Jerome translated the bible into Latin. He tells you that he knows that it isn't true but keeps on rolling. He does that here:

32. Isaiah tells of the mystery of our faith and hope:4478“Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.” I know that the Jews are accustomed to meet us with the objection that in Hebrew the word Almah does not mean a virgin, but a young woman. And, to speak truth, a virgin is properly called Bethulah, but a young woman, or a girl, is not Almah, but Naarah!4479What then is the meaning of Almah? A hidden virgin, that is, not merely virgin, but a virgin and something more, because not every virgin is hidden, shut off from the occasional sight of men. Then again, Rebecca, on account of her extreme purity, and because she was a type of the Church which she represented in her own virginity, is described in Genesis as Almah, not Bethulah, as may clearly be proved from the words of Abraham’s servant, spoken by him in Mesopotamia:4480“And he said, O Lord, the God of my master Abraham, if now thou do prosper my way which I go: behold I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the maiden which cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say, Give me, I pray thee, a little water of this pitcher to drink; and she shall say to me, Both drink thou, and I will also draw for thy camels: let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath appointed for my master’s son.” Where he speaks of the maiden coming forth to draw water, the Hebrew word is Almah, that is, a virgin secluded, and guarded by her parents with extreme care. Or, if this be not so, let them at least show me where the word is applied to married women as well, and I will confess my ignorance. “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.” If virginity be not preferred to marriage, why did not the Holy Spirit choose a married woman, or a widow? For at that time Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser, was alive, distinguished for purity, and always free to devote herself to prayers and fasting in the temple of God. If the life, and good works, and fasting without virginity can merit the advent of the Holy Spirit, she might well have been the mother of our Lord. Let us hasten to the rest:4481“The virgin daughter of Zion hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn.” To her whom he called daughter the prophet also gave the title virgin, for fear that if he spoke only of a daughter, it might be supposed that she was married. This is the virgin daughter whom elsewhere he thus addresses:4482“Sing, O barren, thou that dost not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate, than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.” This is she of whom God by the mouth of Jeremiah speaks, saying:4483“Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire.” Concerning her we read of a great miracle in the same prophecy4484—that a woman should compass a man, and that the Father of all things should be contained in a virgin’s womb.

NPNF2-06. Jerome The Principal Works of St. Jerome - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

But, that isn't where I was going.

It seems that when I post this, you guys run. Jerome knows that if he tells the truth and corrects the wording then they can't use Isaiah 7:14.

okay....I've read it three times and I still can't figure out what that quote has to do with the topic I've been discussing.........would you care to point out what it has to do with the claim that Christianity is a holdover from Greek mythology?.....

The NT is an argument.........one side of the argument. It is an extension of older arguments.

Like......free will

Start here:
Hellenistic Astrology Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

When I have time later I will add to it. BTW, do you know what language St. Jerome was translating from into Latin?

sorry, I don't debate internet sites.....they really suck at defending themselves.....if you come up with something YOU want to discuss, feel free to post it.......

I'm not asking you to debate an internet site. I'm giving you material that I will expand on. It's easily verifiable. You wanted documentation, no?

I would prefer if you would stay on topic.

St. Jerome was translating Koine Greek to Latin. Latin was already a dead language pretty much every place else. Anywhoo, let me introduce you to the Septuagint.
Septuagint - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Indeependent]

A Born Again Christian would sooner spend their life time in a Malaria ridden swamp than spend 3 months learning Hebrew.