Did Blinken just announce WWIII?

[The Sage of Main Street]

JFK may well have been a pacifist, Sage , yet the paradigm of local threat then is not far from that of this millennium's Uke debacle.

~S~

"Che Lives!"

The Harvard HeirHead Hierarchy was pro-Castro (a richkid himself) even back then. The Kennedys had to stay loyal to their alma mater.

 

[Catsnmeters]

What's absurd is this bs you leftist spit daily.

If you think not being cowered by Russia's fear tactics, then ok.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I didn't say it was racist.

Paranoid much?

Who is you people?

The People Ewe Flock With

 

[Catsnmeters]

The People Ewe Flock With

My family?

Who do you flock with?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Operation Steadfast “Defender”

load up all the politicians aiding the Illegal Invasion of America in the first ships

Bluffalo Soldiers

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

My family?

Little Lambs Eat Ivy

 

[Catsnmeters]

Little Lambs Eat Ivy

Ok. Obviously you are not a serious poster.

I don't blame you for giving up.

Have a good day.

 

[gipper]

Those Who Failed Us in Manufacturing Can Still Manufacture an Enemy for the M-I C

The Republicrats benefited enormously from the Cold War and sacrificed nothing. They've been trying to re-start that money pie from Day One of the fall of the Soviet Union. The enormous trade benefits from normalizing relations with Russia don't appeal to them, because it would also enrich the American middle class, putting a brake on its drive to eliminate Middle America.

Agreed, but the D Party is no different.

 

[TheYellowKing]

The same mob that got us into WW1 and WW2 are at work right now getting us into WW3.

Its always the same group

 

[TheYellowKing]

. . . and all of these folks really, actually think, if he and the oligarchs he represents, if backed into a corner, won't use nukes?

Explain to me their logic sparky?

Putin was saying since 2013 at least what would happen if NATO didn't stop their expansion towards Russia. Then Obama with Hillary and McCain supported the Neo Nazis in their Maidan Coup. How quickly people in here forget recent history

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all

www.theguardian.com

 

[TheYellowKing]

If you think not being cowered by Russia's fear tactics, then ok.

And yet you're too much a coward to actually fight meaning you lack the strength of your convictions

 

[Catsnmeters]

And yet you're too much a coward to actually fight meaning you lack the strength of your convictions

Again, I served my time. I'm old.

That doesn't give Americans an excuse to cower in the face of Russian threats.

 

[White 6]

O.K.. ..

I have heard this rhetoric from the military industrial complex.

. . . And I have heard this rhetoric from neocons and neo-liberals. . . but I have yet to see any evidence of it.

Not one bit. I base my impressions upon EVIDENCE, and reports from the field, from known reporters that are unbiased with proven track records.

Robert Parry (journalist) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Making Russia ‘The Enemy’​

Making Russia 'The Enemy'

Exclusive: Despite conflicting accounts about who leaked the Democratic emails, the frenzy over an alleged Russian role is driving the U.S. deeper into a costly and dangerous New Cold War, writes Robert Parry. By Robert Parry The rising hysteria about Russia is best understood as fulfillin

consortiumnews.com

December 15, 2016
". . . But the truth appears to be that the neocons have much less influence across the U.S. electoral map than the Clintons think. Arguably, their pandering to a clique of Washington insiders who are viewed as warmongers by many peace-oriented Democrats may even represent a net negative when it comes to winning votes.

I’ve communicated with a number of traditional Democrats who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton because they feared she would pursue a dangerous neocon foreign policy. Obviously, that’s not a scientific survey, but the anecdotal evidence suggests that Clinton’s neocon connections could have been another drag on her campaign.

Assessing Russia
"I also undertook a limited personal test regarding whether Russia is the police state that U.S. propaganda depicts, a country yearning to break free from the harsh grip of Vladimir Putin (although he registers 80 or so percent approval in polls).


Couple walking along the Kremlin wall, Dec. 7, 2016. (Photo by Robert Parry)

"During my trip last week to Europe, which included stops in Brussels and Copenhagen, I decided to take a side trip to Moscow, which I had never visited before. What I encountered was an impressive, surprisingly (to me at least) Westernized city with plenty of American and European franchises, including the ubiquitous McDonald’s and Starbucks. (Russians serve the Starbucks gingerbread latte with a small ginger cookie.)

Though senior Russian officials proved unwilling to meet with me, an American reporter, at this time of tensions, Russia had little appearance of a harshly repressive society. In my years covering U.S. policies in El Salvador in the 1980s and Haiti in the 1990s, I have experienced what police states look and feel like, where death squads dump bodies in the streets. That was not what I sensed in Moscow, just a modern city with people bustling about their business under early December snowfalls.

The police presence in Red Square near the Kremlin was not even as heavy-handed as it is near the government buildings of Washington. Instead, there was a pre-Christmas festive air to the brightly lit Red Square, featuring a large skating rink surrounded by small stands selling hot chocolate, toys, warm clothing and other goods.

Granted, my time and contact with Russians were limited – since I don’t speak Russian and most of them don’t speak English – but I was struck by the contrast between the grim images created by Western media and the Russia that I saw.

It reminded me of how President Ronald Reagan depicted Sandinista-ruled Nicaragua as a “totalitarian dungeon” with a militarized state ready to march on Texas, but what I found when I traveled to Managua was a third-world country still recovering from an earthquake and with a weak security structure despite the Contra war that Reagan had unleashed against Nicaragua.

In other words, “perception management” remains the guiding principle of how the U.S. government deals with the American people, scaring us with exaggerated tales of foreign threats and then manipulating our fears and our misperceptions.

As dangerous as that can be when we’re talking about Nicaragua or Iraq or Libya, the risks are exponentially higher regarding Russia. If the American people are stampeded into a New Cold War based more on myths than reality, the minimal cost could be the trillions of dollars diverted from domestic needs into the Military Industrial Complex. The far-greater cost could be some miscalculation by either side that could end life on the planet.

So, as the Democrats chart their future, they need to decide if they want to leapfrog the Republicans as America’s “war party” or whether they want to pull back from the escalation of tensions with Russia and start addressing the pressing needs of the American people."


What I do see? Is the EU and NATO encircling Russia.

If Russia were courting other nations, and opening up military bases all over the world, like the Soviets used to do, in attempt to "take over the world?" I suppose, I might see your point. . . but this is empty rhetoric, what proof do you have of this rhetoric?

From where I am sitting, the empirical evidence shows the west to be the aggressors.



I can write a tale about aliens landing on Earth and wanting to body snatch too. . but that doesn't mean such silly propaganda is true, or that we should throw away tax-payer money trying to prevent it.

Woo-ooo-oo! Military industrial complex! Woo-ooo-oo Neo-cons! Oh My God, Help us! Scary emotional words, and scary images! The world will surely come to an end!Woo-ooo-oo! How do we sleep at night? Well, I for one, sleep like a baby. It sounds like you favor appeasement, just give Russia Ukraine, and maybe they will go away and leave alone, the rest to the people of Europe that want to be and remain free to not live under Putin's autocratic rule. I will point out, there in not a case in history where a major power was dissuaded by appeasement, giving a little territory, looking the other way, letting the strong man have his way. After all, the Russian people learned to live with it. Look how well it has worked out for political enemies of Putin, of Hitler, of Pol Pot. Do we really need free market capitalism and European markets, production, competition, etc, that have made this country the strongest, most prosperous country in the world? Yes, we do. Do free people have any right to choose how they live and under what kind of government they live if a strong man wishes to take what they have and rule their country? Yes, they do. If we wish to preserve the freedoms we have, the free markets for products produced here, presently sold around the world, should we help preserve those countries, those markets, those people, standing against forced annexation and rule? ABSOLUTELY! Historic Russian designs of conquest and domination, well know under the old Soviet, never died, just because the became temporarily untenable. If Ukraine and indeed Europe need our help to be or remain secure, we should support, as it also supports us keeping our own freedoms from domination by foreign tyrants in the long term. At the moment, it is extremely cost effecting in money and American lives, as well as European lives to help Ukraine draw the line there, as the bear's hunger is historically only temporarily sated.

 

[the watcher]

No, the world will not end, just change.

 

[MisterBeale]

I will point out, there in not a case in history where a major power was dissuaded by appeasement, giving a little territory, looking the other way, letting the strong man have his way.

False.

Mexican-American War: Causes & Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo | HISTORY

The Mexican-American War was a 1846-1848 conflict over vast territories in the American West, which the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo gave to the United States.

www.history.com

Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The oligarchs that rule in D.C., after the Mexican-American war, had no desire to rule and conquer the rest of Mexico. Nor did they have a desire to invade and take over any area of the globe where non-Anglo Europeans did not settle and colonize.

If Americans did not live there? The ruling elites had no desire to make it a part of the U.S.


In the same way, if you read the transcriptions of the speeches of Putin, he has stated, over and over, and over, that the Russians have no desire to incorporate any part of the world were ethnic Russians do not live, or of people who have no desire to be a part of Russia.

 

[MisterBeale]

Do free people have any right to choose how they live and under what kind of government they live if a strong man wishes to take what they have and rule their country? Yes, they do.

Agreed.

The ruling elites in the west, do not wish to let the enclaves in Ukraine, speaking ethnically Russia Ukrainians, that have had their language suppressed/banned by Kyiv, have control of their own destiny. That is what this is essentially all about.

You do not want them to be free. Why?

Pro-Moscow rebel leaders in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donetsk called on Monday to become part of Russia, a day after staging a referendum that overwhelmingly supported self-rule.

East Ukraine rebels seek to join Russia after vote

Pro-Moscow rebel leaders in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donetsk called on Monday to become part of Russia, a day after staging a referendum that overwhelmingly supported self-rule.

www.france24.com

Crimean lawmakers vote to join Russia

Lawmakers in Crimea unanimously voted Thursday to break away from Ukraine and join Russia — and called for a March 16 referendum so voters can ratify the controversial split. “This is our res…

nypost.com

The area in dispute, are ethnic Russians, on the border to Russia, which have been discriminated, and oppressed by the bureaucracy in Kyiv.

Ukraine passes language law championed by outgoing president

By Pavel Polityuk KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's parliament approved a law on Thursday that grants special status to the Ukrainian language and makes it mandatory

www.euronews.com

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine's parliament approved a law on Thursday that grants special status to the Ukrainian language and makes it mandatory for public sector workers, despite opposition from the country's large Russian-speaking minority who feel it is discriminatory.

The move, which obliges all citizens to know the Ukrainian language and makes it a mandatory requirement for civil servants, soldiers, doctors, and teachers, was championed by outgoing President Petro Poroshenko who needs to sign it into law before it takes effect, something he is expected to do.. . "

Language policy in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

". . . The 2012 law was supported by the governing Party of Regions and opposed by the opposition parties, who argued that the law undermined the role of the Ukrainian language, violated Article 10 of the Constitution,[2][3][4] and was adopted with an irregular procedure.[5][6] Immediately after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, on 23 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament voted to repeal the law. This decision was vetoed by the acting President Turchynov.[7][8] In October 2014, the Constitutional Court started reviewing the constitutionality of the 2012 law[9] and declared it unconstitutional on 28 February 2018.[10]

In April 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted a new law, the law "On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language". The law made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish.[11][12] The Venice Commission and Human Rights Watch expressed concern about the 2019 law's failure to protect the language rights of Ukrainian minorities.[12][13] On 8 December 2023, the Ukrainian parliament passed a bill that claimed to have fixed this issues and was adopted in order to meet one of the European Commission’s criteria for the opening of Ukrainian European Union membership negotiations.[14]

Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, on 19 June the Ukrainian parliament passed two laws which placed restrictions on Russian books and music. The new laws ban Russian citizens from printing books unless they take Ukrainian citizenship, prohibit the import of books printed in Russia, Belarus and the occupied Ukrainian territories, and prohibit the reproduction in the media and public transport of music performed or created by post-1991 Russian citizens, unless the musicians are included in a "white list" of artists who have publicly condemned Russian aggression against Ukraine.[15][16][17] . . "


All I can tell you? Is if Christian/white nationalists in our own nation, treated folks that spoke Spanish in the southwest, the same way as Kyiv treats Russian speakers? Your rhetoric about a "free people," would see folks in the southwest, revolting just like ethnic Russians revolted against Kyiv as soon as the president signed such discriminatory fascism into law.

 

[SavannahMann]

False.

Mexican-American War: Causes & Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo | HISTORY

The Mexican-American War was a 1846-1848 conflict over vast territories in the American West, which the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo gave to the United States.

www.history.com

Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The oligarchs that rule in D.C., after the Mexican-American war, had no desire to rule and conquer the rest of Mexico. Nor did they have a desire to invade and take over any area of the globe where non-Anglo Europeans did not settle and colonize.

If Americans did not live there? The ruling elites had no desire to make it a part of the U.S.


In the same way, if you read the transcriptions of the speeches of Putin, he has stated, over and over, and over, that the Russians have no desire to incorporate any part of the world were ethnic Russians do not live, or of people who have no desire to be a part of Russia.

Well that explains why they invaded Ukraine. I mean let’s be honest. The Russians were barely more popular in Ukraine than Herpes. Now of course, the Ukrainians would rather have Herpes than Russians.

 

[TheYellowKing]

Again, I served my time. I'm old.

That doesn't give Americans an excuse to cower in the face of Russian threats.

Right you're too old and too cowardly so let others fight and die for your misguided beliefs

 

[toomuchtime_]

meaning nato is the aggressor ?

~S~

I can just see the movie now. With the Kremlin collapsing all around him, Putin's last words will be, "NATO is the aggressor!"

 

[MisterBeale]

Well that explains why they invaded Ukraine. I mean let’s be honest. The Russians were barely more popular in Ukraine than Herpes. Now of course, the Ukrainians would rather have Herpes than Russians.

Why not be honest?

The conflict in Ukraine, is essentially a civil war, and has been since 2014. The government in Kyiv has had the support of NATO since then. In early 2022, it was about to move troops into the Donbas and Crimea, and the folks in eastern Ukraine, only appealed to Russian for support, in the way that the ruling elites in Kyiv were using western support.