Did anyone know that federal law prevents farmers from fixing their own tractors, that's nuts.....

[theDoctorisIn]

Removing laws isn't going to make John Deere release their code, nor will it solve the problems of the farmers discussed in this thread.

Never said it would, Mr Straw Man.

I think removing laws that prevent people from getting automatic downloads or diagnostic software is the problem, especially if manufacturers like john Deere are going to give exclusive rights to dealers to fleece their customers with.

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

 

[JimBowie1958]

When I was younger, I wanted to be an IT technician.
They can sell diagnostic software, but they choose not to.
It's more money in John Deere's pocket to force you to go to one of their dealerships or "Certified" repair shops.

Then the laws should be changed, reduced, to allow for people to procure their own diagnostics from third parties.

This is in effect a government imposed monopoly on John Deere diagnostics.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Ehat

creators of intellectual property deserve to be compensated for what they develop. it isn't open source.

Then explain how the same government forced auto manufacturers to all use the same open source code for automobile diagnostics Jillian. Prior to 1996 every manufacturer used their own standard and private shops were just fucked if they couldn't afford a different machine for every manufacturer.

These two rules are diametrically opposed. That isn't even logical

Are you suggesting that the government should force John Deere to release their source code?

What? I'm saying the epa FORCED auto manufacturers to dum their proprietary source code for diagnostics and use the open source code obd2 that they currently use. Are you suggesting that the same couldn't be done on tractors?

No, of course it could be done on tractors.

I'm asking you if that's what you think should happen.

To be honest. I don't know. Being in the Indy auto repair business I understand why it was done on cars even though well obviously that isn't the government's role. I don't know if the same factors apply to tractora. I do know however that government rules should never so obviously conflict

The rules don't conflict, one is a carve-out of the other.

There is no law that prevents companies from using open-source software.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

Sure there is if it isnt made by John Deere.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

When I was younger, I wanted to be an IT technician.
They can sell diagnostic software, but they choose not to.
It's more money in John Deere's pocket to force you to go to one of their dealerships or "Certified" repair shops.

Then the laws should be changed, reduced, to allow for people to procure their own diagnostics from third parties.

This is in effect a government imposed monopoly on John Deere diagnostics.

How will these "third parties" get their hands on those diagnostics, in order to sell them?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Of coj

Removing laws isn't going to make John Deere release their code, nor will it solve the problems of the farmers discussed in this thread.

Never said it would, Mr Straw Man.

I think removing laws that prevent people from getting automatic downloads or diagnostic software is the problem, especially if manufacturers like john Deere are going to give exclusive rights to dealers to fleece their customers with.

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

Of course there isn't. Every auto manufacturers could do it. Currently only Tesla offers free updates as far as I'm aware. Everyone else to the dealer or an Indy shop which has invested in a $2000 piece of equipment and bought the software from the manufacture which by epa rule They must allow us access too.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

Sure there is if it isnt made by John Deere.

No, there isn't. I don't even understand what you're saying at this point.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The rules don't conflict, one is a carve-out of the other.

There is no law that prevents companies from using open-source software.

It is amazing that you conflate this issue so badly.

No one is saying that John Deere should give up control of their proprietary software.

What people are saying is that John Deere is engaging in abuse of existing laws to exploit a monopoly the government has given them.

It has all the moral repugnance of the ass hat that bought the company that made a commonly used treatment for HIV and then jacked the price up by about 1500%.

But in this case the only reason that John Deere can gouge their customers is because Federal Law is giving them a monopoly on diagnostic tools which they call hacks.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

When I was younger, I wanted to be an IT technician.
They can sell diagnostic software, but they choose not to.
It's more money in John Deere's pocket to force you to go to one of their dealerships or "Certified" repair shops.

Then the laws should be changed, reduced, to allow for people to procure their own diagnostics from third parties.

This is in effect a government imposed monopoly on John Deere diagnostics.

How will these "third parties" get their hands on those diagnostics, in order to sell them?

Is he saying the government is forcing John Deere to keep their diagnostic software proprietary?

Wow and the people vote :shudders:

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The rules don't conflict, one is a carve-out of the other.

There is no law that prevents companies from using open-source software.

It is amazing that you conflate this issue so badly.

No one is saying that John Deere should give up control of their proprietary software.

What people are saying is that John Deere is engaging in abuse of existing laws to exploit a monopoly the government has given them.

It has all the moral repugnance of the ass hat that bought the company that made a commonly used treatment for HIV and then jacked the price up by about 1500%.

But in this case the only reason that John Deere can gouge their customers is because Federal Law is giving them a monopoly on diagnostic tools which they call hacks.

You are the one conflating the issue.

The only federal law in play here is the one protecting John Deere's proprietary software. If you're not saying that they should be forced to give up control of that code to third party diagnostic tools, what are you saying?

 

[JimBowie1958]

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

Sure there is if it isnt made by John Deere.

No, there isn't. I don't even understand what you're saying at this point.

A John Deere costumer has to go to a dealer to get diagnostics, which is an onerous and monopolistic trade practice.

If John Deere and other software manufacturers are not going to do direct FREE updates and trouble shooting for their software then they should not be protected by law from third party diagnostics and fixes which the industry describes as hacking, and it is not hacking.

Why do you libtards have such a strong knee jerk to oppose anything farmers do to combat corporate control and abuse?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

The rules don't conflict, one is a carve-out of the other.

There is no law that prevents companies from using open-source software.

It is amazing that you conflate this issue so badly.

No one is saying that John Deere should give up control of their proprietary software.

What people are saying is that John Deere is engaging in abuse of existing laws to exploit a monopoly the government has given them.

It has all the moral repugnance of the ass hat that bought the company that made a commonly used treatment for HIV and then jacked the price up by about 1500%.

But in this case the only reason that John Deere can gouge their customers is because Federal Law is giving them a monopoly on diagnostic tools which they call hacks.

I don't think you quite understand the subject man. There is no monopoly. Now if you w an t to argue that tractors should use an obd2 protocol that is the same for all tractora jusy like cars. Argue that. But each manufacturer using their own protocols on their own products is not a monopoly.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Is he saying the government is forcing John Deere to keep their diagnostic software proprietary?

Wow and the people vote :shudders:

No, dumbass I didnt say anything of the sort.

You can stop kissing docs ass now.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Is he saying the government is forcing John Deere to keep their diagnostic software proprietary?

Wow and the people vote :shudders:

No, dumbass I didnt say anything of the sort.

You can stop kissing docs ass now.

I am not kissing anyone's ass you just clearly don't know what a monopoly is .

What does John Deere have a monopoly on? Their own diagnostic protocols? Lol.

 

[tigerred59]

This is the problem with the left........every single aspect of life eventually comes under control of some federal agency or dimwitted bureaucrat......

Did anyone know that farmers are prevented from fixing their own tractors, that by federal freakin law they have to hire a contractor to do it....?

This is just nuts....

Farmers fight for the right to repair their own tractors | Fox News

They're attempting to get legislation passed in their states that would enable them, for the first time since the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, to repair their own tractors or get an independent mechanic to help.

At the root of the morass is the software that helps run modern tractors and their sensors, diagnostic tools, and other high-tech elements. If farmers so much as open the metaphorical hood to check out the computers they could be violating the federal act, reports Modern Farmer.

Mick Minchow, a Nebraska farmer for more than 40 years, is among the many who are fed up, reports Lincoln Journal Star. As it currently stands, any problem with his John Deere 8235 R requires a trip to the dealer and costs him important time.

What he'd like to be able to do, per the paper, is something as simple as looking up the system code to determine if it's a serious problem or something as mundane as replacing a filter.

John Deere's argument, as reported byWired, is that giving farmers free rein over the software would "make it possible for pirates, third-party developers, and less innovative competitors to free-ride off the creativity, unique expression, and ingenuity of vehicle software." Other potential issues that have been floated: the financial hit such a change could wreak on dealerships, and the complications of buying used equipment whose software was improperly changed.

Hey dumb ass, guess who's in charge with laws like this in Washington? Need a few days to think about it?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

This is the problem with the left........every single aspect of life eventually comes under control of some federal agency or dimwitted bureaucrat......

Did anyone know that farmers are prevented from fixing their own tractors, that by federal freakin law they have to hire a contractor to do it....?

This is just nuts....

Farmers fight for the right to repair their own tractors | Fox News

They're attempting to get legislation passed in their states that would enable them, for the first time since the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, to repair their own tractors or get an independent mechanic to help.

At the root of the morass is the software that helps run modern tractors and their sensors, diagnostic tools, and other high-tech elements. If farmers so much as open the metaphorical hood to check out the computers they could be violating the federal act, reports Modern Farmer.

Mick Minchow, a Nebraska farmer for more than 40 years, is among the many who are fed up, reports Lincoln Journal Star. As it currently stands, any problem with his John Deere 8235 R requires a trip to the dealer and costs him important time.

What he'd like to be able to do, per the paper, is something as simple as looking up the system code to determine if it's a serious problem or something as mundane as replacing a filter.

John Deere's argument, as reported byWired, is that giving farmers free rein over the software would "make it possible for pirates, third-party developers, and less innovative competitors to free-ride off the creativity, unique expression, and ingenuity of vehicle software." Other potential issues that have been floated: the financial hit such a change could wreak on dealerships, and the complications of buying used equipment whose software was improperly changed.

Hey dumb ass, guess who's in charge with laws like this in Washington? Need a few days to think about it?

No one asked your black ass. Back to picking. Cotton boy.

 

[tigerred59]

This is the problem with the left........every single aspect of life eventually comes under control of some federal agency or dimwitted bureaucrat......

Did anyone know that farmers are prevented from fixing their own tractors, that by federal freakin law they have to hire a contractor to do it....?

This is just nuts....

Farmers fight for the right to repair their own tractors | Fox News

They're attempting to get legislation passed in their states that would enable them, for the first time since the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, to repair their own tractors or get an independent mechanic to help.

At the root of the morass is the software that helps run modern tractors and their sensors, diagnostic tools, and other high-tech elements. If farmers so much as open the metaphorical hood to check out the computers they could be violating the federal act, reports Modern Farmer.

Mick Minchow, a Nebraska farmer for more than 40 years, is among the many who are fed up, reports Lincoln Journal Star. As it currently stands, any problem with his John Deere 8235 R requires a trip to the dealer and costs him important time.

What he'd like to be able to do, per the paper, is something as simple as looking up the system code to determine if it's a serious problem or something as mundane as replacing a filter.

John Deere's argument, as reported byWired, is that giving farmers free rein over the software would "make it possible for pirates, third-party developers, and less innovative competitors to free-ride off the creativity, unique expression, and ingenuity of vehicle software." Other potential issues that have been floated: the financial hit such a change could wreak on dealerships, and the complications of buying used equipment whose software was improperly changed.

John Deere is on the left?

Who'd a thunk it?

Corporations support big government....you guys are too dumb to realize they are not right or left...they are "buy politicians and use them to protect their interests and attack their enemies" and that is one reason we want a smaller government....

This is the problem with the left

But you said the "left" in your opening statement, you must be light in the head from bowing to your religious statues

You should realize by now that these mindless minions are robotic nuts and can't help themselves, they're permanently stuck on anti left genre'

 

[tigerred59]

This is the problem with the left........every single aspect of life eventually comes under control of some federal agency or dimwitted bureaucrat......

Did anyone know that farmers are prevented from fixing their own tractors, that by federal freakin law they have to hire a contractor to do it....?

This is just nuts....

Farmers fight for the right to repair their own tractors | Fox News

They're attempting to get legislation passed in their states that would enable them, for the first time since the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, to repair their own tractors or get an independent mechanic to help.

At the root of the morass is the software that helps run modern tractors and their sensors, diagnostic tools, and other high-tech elements. If farmers so much as open the metaphorical hood to check out the computers they could be violating the federal act, reports Modern Farmer.

Mick Minchow, a Nebraska farmer for more than 40 years, is among the many who are fed up, reports Lincoln Journal Star. As it currently stands, any problem with his John Deere 8235 R requires a trip to the dealer and costs him important time.

What he'd like to be able to do, per the paper, is something as simple as looking up the system code to determine if it's a serious problem or something as mundane as replacing a filter.

John Deere's argument, as reported byWired, is that giving farmers free rein over the software would "make it possible for pirates, third-party developers, and less innovative competitors to free-ride off the creativity, unique expression, and ingenuity of vehicle software." Other potential issues that have been floated: the financial hit such a change could wreak on dealerships, and the complications of buying used equipment whose software was improperly changed.

Hey dumb ass, guess who's in charge with laws like this in Washington? Need a few days to think about it?

No one asked your black ass. Back to picking. Cotton boy.

LOLOLOL....back to pickin cotton? Haven't you heard, the Chinese do that job now.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I don't think you quite understand the subject man. There is no monopoly. Now if you w an t to argue that tractors should use an obd2 protocol that is the same for all tractora jusy like cars. Argue that. But each manufacturer using their own protocols on their own products is not a monopoly.

OK, you seem to have some preconceptions of what I am talking about, so I will use OS to make a comparison.

Microsoft sells a rotten piece of shit OS called Windows. Lots of problems with it, but Microsoft tries to allow free downloads and updates to fix problems with it. Failing that I can go to THIRD PARTY VENDERS and buy tools to try to fix the problem.

Microsoft has a history of monopolistic practices but the Justice Department got on their case and they are more open with what they do now.

If I had to take my computer to the dealer I bought it from to update or run diagnostics on the software, people would be burning Microsofts HQ to the ground, and rightly so.

But John Deere is not fucking over 80% of the urban population that uses private computers at home. They are only fucking over farmers across the country and you are OK with that, I guess because you just think farmers should get fucked as frequently as possible.

Get it now, dude?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

There are no laws preventing "automatic downloads" or "diagnostic software".

Sure there is if it isnt made by John Deere.

No, there isn't. I don't even understand what you're saying at this point.

A John Deere costumer has to go to a dealer to get diagnostics, which is an onerous and monopolistic trade practice.

If John Deere and other software manufacturers are not going to do direct FREE updates and trouble shooting for their software then they should not be protected by law from third party diagnostics and fixes which the industry describes as hacking, and it is not hacking.

Why do you libtards have such a strong knee jerk to oppose anything farmers do to combat corporate control and abuse?

Actually, I'm quite thoroughly against the DMCA, I think it's one of the worst and least thought-out pieces of legislation in my lifetime. I'm playing devil's advocate.

To continue:

Why shouldn't John Deere's intellectual property be protected? They're the ones who spent the money and took the time to develop that software, why shouldn't they be able to keep control of it?