Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

[Xenophon]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Most ancient cultures would destroy monotheistic sects, and for good reason. It wasn't their belief that none of the other gods existed that brought this on, it was because of their aggressiveness toward those who didn't conform to this idea. So their elders saw the threat to the development of humanity and often eradicated them by force. Kind of like preventing what we have today.

 

[mightypeon]

Several things with the "Naval Maya" theory would not work at all:
1. If the maya were able to traverse the Atlantic, why are there absolutly no indications of the shipbuilding one needs to do that? Traversing the Atlantic or the pacific is something totally different from reaching Australia from Southeast asia, where one can more or less island hop. Are you aware of the resource and technological sophistaction that is needed to traverse the Atlantic? Besides, how would the Maya just dissappear from Europe without any of the high cultures of this time (Egyptians, Babylonians, parthians, Carthagians etc.) mentioning it? Any Eurasian civilisation with the ability to traverse oceans would have had a significant impact on its neighbours.
2. Genetically, Mayas(not really Mayas, native inhabitants who did not intermix with Europeans after the Spanish came) have more in common with native Siberians than with any other Eurasian people. This is a strong argument for the land bridge theory.
3. Again, if the maya would have been Ocean fairing, why would they settle in Yucatan of all places? Cuba f.e. is/was much more hospitable. And it would have been reached earlier assuming they would come from the east.

The boats available at that time where early forms of Triremes, Biremes or simpler rowing crafts. This boats do not cross Oceans, especially not without a set of logistical bases in places like the Azores or Cape Verde. Even the Spanish, who were much more advanced than the mayas when it came to shipbuilding, heavily relied on the Atlantic bases to faciliate their American explorations.


So, assuming the Mayas came from Eurasia in biblical times means:
1. A civilisation got advanced enough to develop ocean faring capacities without anybody noticing this civilisation, in fact said civilisation did not intermix with any other civilisation in the area. Apart from the Jews who converted them(although they arent exactly the most proselytising faith iirc), without the Jews mentioning this conversion in any of their sources, and without the civilisation in question mentioning it either.
2. Said civilisation did not exploit its total technological superiority in naval matters at all. (For ways to cleverly use Naval superiority, consult the history of the British Empire, or the history of Athens/Carthage/Syracuse)
3. Said civilisation than packed up and embarked wholesale on a highly dangerous journey to settle in one of the worlds most inhospitable places for large groups of persons.
4. Said civiliation than completely forgot its ocean faring capacity, without ever mentioning it again and spend the rest of their time with building pyramids and looking at the sky.

This theory does not meet Occams Razor.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

Well thus far, I have shown evidences and you have just said"there is no proof". where are your links, where are your sources. It sounds like you are clinging to the old Smithsonian dogma that is irresponsible at best.

As per evidence I have shown, Eurasian maritime voyages pre-Columbus have been proven not only possible but likely. Answer this, how did Jade wind up in the tombs of mummies in Egypt? How did Hebrew writings pre Columbus wind up on walls of Caves in the US? How did Egyptian style embalming happen in the Kentucky caves pre-Columbus. How did silk wind up in America pre-Columbus? Heiroglyphs? Pyramids? Bedouin Arabic traditions like oath bound covenants of honor and nomadism? Hey it doesn't "prove" anything but it does make the scenario claimed PLAUSIBLE.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Most ancient cultures would destroy monotheistic sects, and for good reason. It wasn't their belief that none of the other gods existed that brought this on, it was because of their aggressiveness toward those who didn't conform to this idea. So their elders saw the threat to the development of humanity and often eradicated them by force. Kind of like preventing what we have today.

Interesting statement. This is exactly what happened to the Nephite nation as they were destroyed at last by the Lamanite nation. The monotheistic Nephites were annihilated by the vast armies of the pagan Lamanite idol worshippers in 421 AD.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Several things with the "Naval Maya" theory would not work at all:Ah... this is refreshing, at last a person who presents rational thought process. Each of your point deserves a quality answer. And I am delighted you brought up such legitimate points.
Actually there are. In present day Khor Kharfot lie the remains of a strange nomadic group which built a ship in it's harbor and left remains of said construction. Paintings on rocks of a ship. An old ship dock. My theory is that the "Maya" as we call them today had their origins in Ancient Jerusalem around 600 BC. Due to large amounts of political pressure from Babylon and Egypt and the persecution of prophets of the day, see Jeremiah and "other many prophets" mentioned in the Bible, Lehi, a rich Bedouin Arab Jewish trader who made his living in the spice trade camel routes between Egypt and Jerusalem, fled with his family and an a few friends southeast not far from the coast of the Arabian peninsula and through the desert wasteland. This journey led them to a small paradise they called "Bountiful". Which I believe is present day Khor Kharfot. Here there is plentiful honey and fruit to this day. There is also timber to build ships. It is uninhabited today because of the extreme difficult access by land or sea. After a time, they set sail from Khor Kharfot after building a ship.They claimed in 1st Nephi chapter 18:2 Now I, Nephi, did not work the timbers after the manner which was learned by men, neither did I build the ship after the manner of men; but I did build it after the manner which the Lord had shown unto me; wherefore, it was not after the manner of men.

The theory proceeds that they were led from the Oman peninsula to approximately the coastal region of highlands Guatemala in approximately 590 BC. The rest of the account is given in the Book of Mormon and their religious, secular and cultural practices which led to the development of the Mayan nation as discovered by Cortez.

http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=7&num=1&id=165

Traversing the Atlantic or the pacific is something totally different from reaching Australia from Southeast asia, where one can more or less island hop. Are you aware of the resource and technological sophistaction that is needed to traverse the Atlantic?I also believe there were Eurasian journeys prior to the Mayan arrivals. An account of an Assyriac/Persian migration is also mentioned around the time of the tower of Babel dispersion. Besides, how would the Maya just dissappear from Europe without any of the high cultures of this time (Egyptians, Babylonians, parthians, Carthagians etc.) mentioning it?They left in secret and in small numbers as the political ramifications of being caught leaving during this unstable period of Jerusalem's history was a death sentence. Any Eurasian civilisation with the ability to traverse oceans would have had a significant impact on its neighboursDepending on who they come in contact with, you are right. It also depends on who sees them leaving..
2. Genetically, Mayas(not really Mayas, native inhabitants who did not intermix with Europeans after the Spanish came) have more in common with native Siberians than with any other Eurasian peopleI have heard this one before but there is no hard data on the subject as it appears clear there were several pre-columbian migrations to this continent, one of them very possibly being via the Bering Strait. The problem is the idea that ONLY the land bridge theory is possible.. This is a strong argument for the land bridge theory.
3. Again, if the maya would have been Ocean fairing, why would they settle in Yucatan of all places? Once they landed, they were not much of a ship building people until later. They were originally Jews who were not normally seagoers. The liked living off the land. Later on in the account we read of a ship builder named Hagoth who decided to build large ships and sailed off into the Pacific Ocean, never to be heard of again. I believe he settled at least one group of Islands with the thousands of people he brought with him. Cuba f.e. is/was much more hospitable. And it would have been reached earlier assuming they would come from the east.I don't know that they didn't reach out to Cuba, but if they didn't it's probably because they didn't feel the need to explore that area.

The boats available at that time where early forms of Triremes, Biremes or simpler rowing crafts. I covered this in the first answer. the ships were not made after the manner of the day.This boats do not cross Oceans, especially not without a set of logistical bases in places like the Azores or Cape Verde. Even the Spanish, who were much more advanced than the mayas when it came to shipbuilding, heavily relied on the Atlantic bases to faciliate their American explorations.I reiterate this was a Pacific journey.


So, assuming the Mayas came from Eurasia in biblical times means:
1. A civilisation got advanced enough to develop ocean faring capacities without anybody noticing this civilisation, in fact said civilisation did not intermix with any other civilisation in the area. Apart from the Jews who converted them(although they arent exactly the most proselytising faith iirc), without the Jews mentioning this conversion in any of their sources, and without the civilisation in question mentioning it either.Again the privacy of their departure was required or it wouldn't have succeeded. This sect of Jews were also Christian before Christ was born. Another unpopular belief in Jerusalem at the time.
2. Said civilisation did not exploit its total technological superiority in naval matters at all. (For ways to cleverly use Naval superiority, consult the history of the British Empire, or the history of Athens/Carthage/Syracuse)Certainly, they were not much of a maritime people as a whole. Only individuals who I have mentioned previously.
3. Said civilisation than packed up and embarked wholesale on a highly dangerous journey Truly, except as mentioned before this was not a large movement. The total number of the group was Lehi, his wife, his six sons, and five daughters, Ishmael, his wife, four sons and seven daughters and a man named Zoram. A total of 27 personsto settle in one of the worlds most inhospitable places for large groups of persons.
4. Said civiliation than completely forgot its ocean faring capacity, without ever mentioning it againSee Hagoth the shipbuilder who sailed away never to be heard of again. Also I believe there are myriads of maritime discoveries to be had if the coasts were searched by archaeological dives. A largely untapped resource. and spend the rest of their time with building pyramids and looking at the sky.

This theory does not meet Occams Razor.

Tell me what you think of the red answers.

 

[KittenKoder]

Most ancient cultures would destroy monotheistic sects, and for good reason. It wasn't their belief that none of the other gods existed that brought this on, it was because of their aggressiveness toward those who didn't conform to this idea. So their elders saw the threat to the development of humanity and often eradicated them by force. Kind of like preventing what we have today.

Interesting statement. This is exactly what happened to the Nephite nation as they were destroyed at last by the Lamanite nation. The monotheistic Nephites were annihilated by the vast armies of the pagan Lamanite idol worshippers in 421 AD.

Here's a bit of logic for you: The Book of Mormon is an idol. The cross is an idol (though mormons don't use it). The angel Moroni is an idol. The bibles are idols. Idol is not just a pagan god, or a heathen god, or a druidic god ... it's something you worship without asking questions.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Most ancient cultures would destroy monotheistic sects, and for good reason. It wasn't their belief that none of the other gods existed that brought this on, it was because of their aggressiveness toward those who didn't conform to this idea. So their elders saw the threat to the development of humanity and often eradicated them by force. Kind of like preventing what we have today.

Interesting statement. This is exactly what happened to the Nephite nation as they were destroyed at last by the Lamanite nation. The monotheistic Nephites were annihilated by the vast armies of the pagan Lamanite idol worshippers in 421 AD.

Here's a bit of logic for you: The Book of Mormon is an idol. The cross is an idol (though mormons don't use it). The angel Moroni is an idol. The bibles are idols. Idol is not just a pagan god, or a heathen god, or a druidic god ... it's something you worship without asking questions.

Well I don't think there is anything wrong with idols at all. They are just inanimate objects and can make beautiful artwork. The problem is worshipping them. The reason you aren't supposed to worship them is because a person is superior to an inanimate object.

As to the BOM being an idol.... I guess you could call it that, but it's more acurately described as a book with pages that contain information.

Interesting to see the definition of the word Idol:1: a representation or symbol of an object of worship ; broadly : a false god
2 a: a likeness of something b) obsolete : pretender , impostor
3: a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol &#8212; P. B. Shelley>
4: an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol> ; also : ideal 2
5: a false conception : fallacy

I would say the red definition is accurate concerning your statements, but not the others.

 

[KittenKoder]

Interesting statement. This is exactly what happened to the Nephite nation as they were destroyed at last by the Lamanite nation. The monotheistic Nephites were annihilated by the vast armies of the pagan Lamanite idol worshippers in 421 AD.

Here's a bit of logic for you: The Book of Mormon is an idol. The cross is an idol (though mormons don't use it). The angel Moroni is an idol. The bibles are idols. Idol is not just a pagan god, or a heathen god, or a druidic god ... it's something you worship without asking questions.

Well I don't think there is anything wrong with idols at all. They are just inanimate objects and can make beautiful artwork. The problem is worshipping them. The reason you aren't supposed to worship them is because a person is superior to an inanimate object.

As to the BOM being an idol.... I guess you could call it that, but it's more acurately described as a book with pages that contain information.

Interesting to see the definition of the word Idol:1: a representation or symbol of an object of worship ; broadly : a false god
2 a: a likeness of something b) obsolete : pretender , impostor
3: a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol — P. B. Shelley>
4: an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol> ; also : ideal 2
5: a false conception : fallacy

I would say the red definition is accurate concerning your statements, but not the others.

The flaw with the English language is that there are so few words and so many definitions for each word ... and many words share partial definitions. I have no idols myself, I worship nothing that I can see or touch in reality, simply because I can destroy or create it therefore I am it's god and if it had intelligence it should be worshiping me.

 

[Xenophon]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

Well thus far, I have shown evidences and you have just said"there is no proof". where are your links, where are your sources. It sounds like you are clinging to the old Smithsonian dogma that is irresponsible at best.

As per evidence I have shown, Eurasian maritime voyages pre-Columbus have been proven not only possible but likely. Answer this, how did Jade wind up in the tombs of mummies in Egypt? How did Hebrew writings pre Columbus wind up on walls of Caves in the US? How did Egyptian style embalming happen in the Kentucky caves pre-Columbus. How did silk wind up in America pre-Columbus? Heiroglyphs? Pyramids? Bedouin Arabic traditions like oath bound covenants of honor and nomadism? Hey it doesn't "prove" anything but it does make the scenario claimed PLAUSIBLE.

Not 'clinging' to anything, there is no proof whatsoever that Christ visited the new world or that someone brought them the Jewish faith.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here's a bit of logic for you: The Book of Mormon is an idol. The cross is an idol (though mormons don't use it). The angel Moroni is an idol. The bibles are idols. Idol is not just a pagan god, or a heathen god, or a druidic god ... it's something you worship without asking questions.

Well I don't think there is anything wrong with idols at all. They are just inanimate objects and can make beautiful artwork. The problem is worshipping them. The reason you aren't supposed to worship them is because a person is superior to an inanimate object.

As to the BOM being an idol.... I guess you could call it that, but it's more acurately described as a book with pages that contain information.

Interesting to see the definition of the word Idol:1: a representation or symbol of an object of worship ; broadly : a false god
2 a: a likeness of something b) obsolete : pretender , impostor
3: a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol — P. B. Shelley>
4: an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol> ; also : ideal 2
5: a false conception : fallacy

I would say the red definition is accurate concerning your statements, but not the others.

The flaw with the English language is that there are so few words and so many definitions for each word ... and many words share partial definitions. I have no idols myself, I worship nothing that I can see or touch in reality, simply because I can destroy or create it therefore I am it's god and if it had intelligence it should be worshiping me.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

Well thus far, I have shown evidences and you have just said"there is no proof". where are your links, where are your sources. It sounds like you are clinging to the old Smithsonian dogma that is irresponsible at best.

As per evidence I have shown, Eurasian maritime voyages pre-Columbus have been proven not only possible but likely. Answer this, how did Jade wind up in the tombs of mummies in Egypt? How did Hebrew writings pre Columbus wind up on walls of Caves in the US? How did Egyptian style embalming happen in the Kentucky caves pre-Columbus. How did silk wind up in America pre-Columbus? Heiroglyphs? Pyramids? Bedouin Arabic traditions like oath bound covenants of honor and nomadism? Hey it doesn't "prove" anything but it does make the scenario claimed PLAUSIBLE.

Not 'clinging' to anything, there is no proof whatsoever that Christ visited the new world or that someone brought them the Jewish faith.

Proof is such an interesting word: The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion.

There is nothing that will force someone to change their mind on the issue. Only evidence to lead people to draw their own conclusions. There is plenty of evidence to support my theory, but just because it doesn't convince you doesn't mean it should be dismissed when you don't have a better argument.

 

[KittenKoder]

TruthSpeaker ... what happened ... how the hell did you start making sense?

 

[editec]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

Well thus far, I have shown evidences and you have just said"there is no proof". where are your links, where are your sources. It sounds like you are clinging to the old Smithsonian dogma that is irresponsible at best.

As per evidence I have shown, Eurasian maritime voyages pre-Columbus have been proven not only possible but likely.

A maritime voyage does not an mass migration make.

Answer this, how did Jade wind up in the tombs of mummies in Egypt?

Jade is found in the mideast.

How did Hebrew writings pre Columbus wind up on walls of Caves in the US?

Jewish taggers...the 13th tribe.. the Sons of Vandal!

How did Egyptian style embalming happen in the Kentucky caves pre-Columbus.

Everybody want to get to heaven but nobody wants to get embalmed.

How did silk wind up in America pre-Columbus?

Damned FREE TRADE. No wonder the Mayan civilization fell.

Heiroglyphs?

Images = ideas.

Pyramids?

Every take a dump in the woods? Sure looks pyramidic to me.

Bedouin Arabic traditions like oath bound covenants of honor and nomadism?

Oaths are what? Unique to Bedouins? The concept of honor is unique?

FYI, the Mayans were not nomads...or if they were, they really sucked at it, because they never actually went anywhere.

Hey it doesn't "prove" anything but it does make the scenario claimed PLAUSIBLE.

Does it?

Hey here's something much more plausible...early civilized mankind world wide tends to discover similar things that work to make their civilizations possible.

A priestly class for example (or shamen) exist pretty much worldwide.

Making clothing is fairly universal, too.

You don't suppose that necessity is the mother of invention, do you?

Just a thought.

I know that such boring ideas as mine pale in comparison to your magical thinking.

 

[Xenophon]

Frankly truth, you are trying to simplfy a diverse culture, and say it had influence from the outside when it did not.

The Mayans in fact had a more accurate calender then the west did for several centuries, was that because someone gave it to them, or did they acchieve it on their own?

As was common in all mesoamerica cultures, they routinely practised human scarifice, if they believed in the hebrew god how could they reconcile this practise to it?

The Mayans were in fact polythic, believing in a complex aray of gods and goddesses that actually blend into one another depending on the age you are studying.

All of these things are factual, it may be fun to speculate that visitors from afar, either from africa or europe or even the stars (as some people thought 30 years ago), but the fact is there is no proof of any of those things.

 

[KittenKoder]

Frankly truth, you are trying to simplfy a diverse culture, and say it had influence from the outside when it did not.

The Mayans in fact had a more accurate calender then the west did for several centuries, was that because someone gave it to them, or did they acchieve it on their own?

As was common in all mesoamerica cultures, they routinely practised human scarifice, if they believed in the hebrew god how could they reconcile this practise to it?

The Mayans were in fact polythic, believing in a complex aray of gods and goddesses that actually blend into one another depending on the age you are studying.

All of these things are factual, it may be fun to speculate that visitors from afar, either from africa or europe or even the stars (as some people thought 30 years ago), but the fact is there is no proof of any of those things.

Many people still cling to this, they have as little faith in humanity as those who want to say all our accomplishments are because some god told us.

 

[Xenophon]

Many people still cling to this, they have as little faith in humanity as those who want to say all our accomplishments are because some god told us.

They were fun books to read when I was 11 years old, and so many wanted to believe it.

I still remmeber the 'In search of' episode that postulated it, the 70s was was like that, full of fun pseudo-science.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually you can rule it out because there is no sign of it.

Even if they had a moment of montheism that doesn't mean it was the Judean diety.

The Mormons created their religion in the 19th century in NY, they are hardly in a postion to make a claim they know what was happening 15 centuries earlier in America when there is no proof of it.

A maritime voyage does not an mass migration make.

I never claimed a mass migration. I claimed a small group of 27 people escaped the ticking Jerusalem time bomb in 600 BC, then traveled to meso-America, then spread throughout central america.

Jade is found in the mideast.


Jewish taggers...the 13th tribe.. the Sons of Vandal!
I think not.The Ohio Decalog, a Hebrew artifact from ancient America



Everybody want to get to heaven but nobody wants to get embalmed.

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/hanion.html

Damned FREE TRADE. No wonder the Mayan civilization fell.

If there was free trade, then it must have been transpacific maritime voyages.

Images = ideas.
You could say that, but it's one hell of a coincidence.


Every take a dump in the woods? Sure looks pyramidic to me.

Fails to grab me as a convincing argument.

Oaths are what? Unique to Bedouins? The concept of honor is unique?
Not necessarily unique to bedouins, but it's one more piece to the puzzle.
FYI, the Mayans were not nomads...or if they were, they really sucked at it, because they never actually went anywhere.

My argument is that they found their "promised land" and didn't need to wander anymore. They were told this would be their "promised land, if they would live righteously, they should never lose dominion over it.

Hey it doesn't "prove" anything but it does make the scenario claimed PLAUSIBLE.

Does it?

Hey here's something much more plausible...early civilized mankind world wide tends to discover similar things that work to make their civilizations possible.Not this familiar to hebrew and Egyptian culture, I would argue.

A priestly class for example (or shamen) exist pretty much worldwide.
Not in the ancient jewish priesthood model.
Making clothing is fairly universal, too.Of course that is universal.

You don't suppose that necessity is the mother of invention, do you?
Why would they need to invent pyramids and embalming practices? Those were purely religious.
Just a thought.

I know that such boring ideas as mine pale in comparison to your magical thinking.I am not as arrogant as you think just because I am convinced of my theory. My objective is to help broaden the perspective that today's scientists, archaeologists, and anthropologists are not always right and are frequently found to be lacking in scholarship individually and organizationally.

All I am saying is it's possible that I am right. Not that I am right.

 

[KittenKoder]

A maritime voyage does not an mass migration make.

I never claimed a mass migration. I claimed a small group of 27 people escaped the ticking Jerusalem time bomb in 600 BC, then traveled to meso-America, then spread throughout central america.

Jade is found in the mideast.


Jewish taggers...the 13th tribe.. the Sons of Vandal!
I think not.The Ohio Decalog, a Hebrew artifact from ancient America



Everybody want to get to heaven but nobody wants to get embalmed.

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/hanion.html

Damned FREE TRADE. No wonder the Mayan civilization fell.

If there was free trade, then it must have been transpacific maritime voyages.

Images = ideas.
You could say that, but it's one hell of a coincidence.


Every take a dump in the woods? Sure looks pyramidic to me.

Fails to grab me as a convincing argument.

Oaths are what? Unique to Bedouins? The concept of honor is unique?
Not necessarily unique to bedouins, but it's one more piece to the puzzle.
FYI, the Mayans were not nomads...or if they were, they really sucked at it, because they never actually went anywhere.

My argument is that they found their "promised land" and didn't need to wander anymore. They were told this would be their "promised land, if they would live righteously, they should never lose dominion over it.


Does it?

Hey here's something much more plausible...early civilized mankind world wide tends to discover similar things that work to make their civilizations possible.Not this familiar to hebrew and Egyptian culture, I would argue.

A priestly class for example (or shamen) exist pretty much worldwide.
Not in the ancient jewish priesthood model.
Making clothing is fairly universal, too.Of course that is universal.

You don't suppose that necessity is the mother of invention, do you?
Why would they need to invent pyramids and embalming practices? Those were purely religious.
Just a thought.

I know that such boring ideas as mine pale in comparison to your magical thinking.I am not as arrogant as you think just because I am convinced of my theory. My objective is to help broaden the perspective that today's scientists, archaeologists, and anthropologists are not always right and are frequently found to be lacking in scholarship individually and organizationally.

All I am saying is it's possible that I am right. Not that I am right.

Here is the flaw with your "priest" side of the argument. Priests never started as religious leaders as we know them, they were more like the high school teachers that specialized in philosophy.

 

[Truthspeaker]

All I am saying is it's possible that I am right. Not that I am right.

Here is the flaw with your "priest" side of the argument. Priests never started as religious leaders as we know them, they were more like the high school teachers that specialized in philosophy.

Not according to the Bible. Melchizedek was an account of a High Priest who was definitely an authoritative religious figure, whom Abraham traveled to get a blessing from him. How about Aaron and the levitical priesthood which was passed down from Melchizedek and Abrahams lineage. This was long before the Nephites claimed to have left for the new world and became what we now know to be the Maya.