Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

[KittenKoder]

Here is the flaw with your "priest" side of the argument. Priests never started as religious leaders as we know them, they were more like the high school teachers that specialized in philosophy.

Not according to the Bible. Melchizedek was an account of a High Priest who was definitely an authoritative religious figure, whom Abraham traveled to get a blessing from him. How about Aaron and the levitical priesthood which was passed down from Melchizedek and Abrahams lineage. This was long before the Nephites claimed to have left for the new world and became what we now know to be the Maya.

The bibles are all books of myth. Science has shown that the earliest priests were nothing more than teachers and councilors.

 

[Diuretic]

Priests were smart. They knew stuff. But being smart they knew exactly what they should reveal to the ingorant and what they should keep hidden, their own secret knowledge. If I can make a dove disappear in my hand and keep you in awe of my ability to do so, why the heck would I explain to you how I managed to move the dove from my hand into a large pocket in my trousers while you were busy watching me do something else to distract you?

 

[editec]

The priestly class is TYPICALLY one of the first class structures found in nearly every early culture.

You are so completely ignornant of sociology and anthropolgy that you have been sold a notion that it took magic to two divrgent cultures to come up with the idea of a priestly class, hieroglifics and pyramids?!

Go start educating yourself, lad.

Your religion (I guess) is setting you up to believe in things that are not only wrong, but so wrong that you end up looking like a complete fool.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Frankly truth, you are trying to simplfy a diverse culture, and say it had influence from the outside when it did not.

The Mayans in fact had a more accurate calender then the west did for several centuries, was that because someone gave it to them, or did they acchieve it on their own?

As was common in all mesoamerica cultures, they routinely practised human scarifice, if they believed in the hebrew god how could they reconcile this practise to it?

The Mayans were in fact polythic, believing in a complex aray of gods and goddesses that actually blend into one another depending on the age you are studying.

All of these things are factual, it may be fun to speculate that visitors from afar, either from africa or europe or even the stars (as some people thought 30 years ago), but the fact is there is no proof of any of those things.

Mayan culture is claimed to have been started around 500 BC. That's not my opinion, that's the history channel airing the notion. Watch the show " 2012 Mayan Doomsday Prophecy"

That being considered. The claim is that Lehi came from jerusalem in 600 BC. Is 100 years enough time to populate a society beginning with 27 people? You betcha. They had the only Pre-Columbian writing system known so far, which had familiar writing resemblances to Egyptian, which they called, "the reformed egyptian". They divided into two societies relatively early in their society's founding, one a monotheistic, the other a polytheistic.
The two often had wars over a roughly 1000 year period of time and eventually the polytheistic Lamanites annihilated the monotheistic Nephites, sacrificing their victims, cannibalizing them, and destroying most of their religious writings. This is written of in the Book of Mormon, which was published by an uneducated farm boy back in 1830.

These things are common knowledge to us today but not to people back then. Either Smith was a phenomenally good guesser or he had posession of ancient records and translated them through divine means. He had no knowledge of geography or ancient languages, but somehow has not been proven wrong despite dilgent attempts to do so.

 

[Xenophon]

Meso american culture begins in pre history, we seperate them into different groups, but they were here before 600 BC.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Meso american culture begins in pre history, we seperate them into different groups, but they were here before 600 BC.

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=when+did+t...st&ab=0&u=http://www.mayan-world.com/time.htm
Well somebody was here before the Maya were in the same geographic area, who I think were the Jaredites. The science which put together this timeline admits it is not concrete but an estimate and is freakishly familiar in every way to the book of mormon claims.

they claimed to have brought writing with them from the old world in 600 BC. This site says writing was introduced approx. 700 BC. Close enough.The Nephites who employed the writings system claimed to have been annihilated in 421 AD. These people say the Mayan decline began around 400 AD......Interesting....They say the "Mayan" culture had it's origin around 2600 BC. The Jaredites(Olmecs) claim to have come around that time and their civilization was wiped out around the time the Nephites(Mayans) were getting started......Starting to get weird yet? PotAto in one language PotAHto in another.

Doesn't "prove" anything but the evidence is starting to mount everyday.

Also, vast amounts of meso-America remain unexplored.....

Just a thought.

 

[editec]

Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

No.

 

[KittenKoder]

Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

No.

My response is: WHICH christ?

I know the ancient Egyptians had Imhotep. Please, do not confuse the movies which inaccurately portray the name.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

No.

I contend there were times when they did and times when they didn't. Eventually the pagans wiped out the Christians in 421 AD.

 

[KittenKoder]

Did ancient Mayan's believe in Christ?

No.

I contend there were times when they did and times when they didn't. Eventually the pagans wiped out the Christians in 421 AD.

*rae* That's ... really ... not even close to fact. The Mayans had an organized religion, pantheonist but still highly organized. Also there is no evidence of a christian based religion anywhere here until much later, at least no real or hard evidence. All that exists is myth and theories from zealots justifying the occupation of the Americas and their mistreatment of the natives here.

 

[Truthspeaker]

No.

I contend there were times when they did and times when they didn't. Eventually the pagans wiped out the Christians in 421 AD.

*rae* That's ... really ... not even close to fact. The Mayans had an organized religion, pantheonist but still highly organized. Also there is no evidence of a christian based religion anywhere here until much later, at least no real or hard evidence. All that exists is myth and theories from zealots justifying the occupation of the Americas and their mistreatment of the natives here.

Really?.....not even close?....no evidence at all?.....That simply isn't true. Maybe not evidence YOU will accept. But nevertheless it is still there. Let's talk about what happens when a society is wiped out. Assume for a second that the Nephites really existed:

1. As jewish custom had it, they built a temple and kept the law of moses within the temple which they said they built "after the manner of the temple of Solomon."
2. They interpreted the law as a type of things to come in that the Messiah was to be born in the meridian of time, that he would be the son of God and redeem mankind.
3. The Lamanites who believed that since they were the firstborn of Lehi, that they had a right to rule over the people. Because of bitterness they separated from the Nephites and outnumbered them, and eventually caused many wars between them. The Lamanites did not keep posession of the sacred records brought from Jerusalem. Nephi took them with him during the separation.
4. The Lamanites did not believe in Christianity anymore. They believed the Nephites robbed them of their property and birthright.(Brass Plates from Jerusalem).
5. The Lamanites became idolatrous and formed their own religious beliefs.
6. The Nephites kept records and Lamanites did not up until about 200AD.
7. Jesus was claimed to have come "to the temple in Zarahemla." He was kind benevolent and ushered in an era of peace that lasted about 200 years. He promised to return.(This is the story which very closely resembles the coming and promise to return of Kukulkan as told by the Maya.)
8. Shortly after this time, wars began again and the reign of the judges was destroyed and people broke up into different tribes of family and friends, each with their own class of rulers within the band.
9. All Christians were lumped into a category called "Nephites" and the Nephites called all others "Lamanites" even though there was much mingling of the blood between the two. The Lamanites greatly outnumbered the Nephites and eventually a gruesome war took place during which the Lamanites sacrificed many women and children to idol gods. They fed the women and children while in prison upon the flesh of their fathers without other options for food.
10. The Nephites were hardened and gave up Christianity at this time as well except for a few individuals. The Nephites cannibalized their prisoners after raping and torturing them to death. The Nephites as a society were destroyed in 400 AD. The vanishing Christians were killed if detected. The last Christian Moroni kept the records that had been handed down on thin plates of gold or a gold-like metal such as tungsten. On this record he wrote of the destruction of the nephite society and the Christians. He wandered in the wilderness for 30 years to escape the hunts of the Lamanites. He eventually came to upstate New York where he buried the record found by Joseph Smith.

11. If the last Christians were destroyed in a vicious war where the enemy not only killed the people but also destroyed their mostly paper records or melted their metal records, how would we have a record of Christianity today?
12. The answer lies in the clues that history has left us. In about 1000 AD, over 600 years from the decline of the Nephites, the Maya(a mix of mostly Lamanites and some Nephites by blood) as they were called at the time had become the ruling power as there had been many other wars from that time. As Moroni records in his last few words..."For behold, there is no end to the bloodshed, for the lamanites do fight among themselves and their wars have become exceedingly fierce, and no one knoweth the end of the war." This was after the Nephites had already been defeated.
13. I just watched the history channel last night and the show "Lost Treasures: The Aztec and Maya." it shows how their society came to be through "many wars between the tribes." They made it clear that there were "many different kinds of Maya." and they did not all get along.
14. Yet one tradition seemed to have been passed down. The full remembrance of the coming of Christ had been either lost or misunderstood. But they remembered that someone had come from heaven with words of peace and benevolence. They called him Kukulkan at this point, but the languages had already changed a great deal from what they used to be. They had already changed a great deal during the time the Nephites were still alive as a nation in 400 AD. I don't know if you realize how much can change over the course of so many hundred years.

15. But there sure are some freakishly familiar similarities that have been preserved if you ever actually read the Book of Mormon and pretend that it's a historical document that was produced in 1830.

 

[KittenKoder]

Using your own myth as fact doesn't make it fact.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Using your own myth as fact doesn't make it fact.

Well it is your option to disregard the evidence. but on what basis I might ask?

 

[KittenKoder]

Using your own myth as fact doesn't make it fact.

Well it is your option to disregard the evidence. but on what basis I might ask?

As I said, it's all myth you are using, not fact. Basing anything on religious myth is not going to give you answers to history, all it does it stop you from seeking the true history. I have read (yes I read Ancient Egyptian) and can verify everything there, as well as point out the fact that the christian bible is completely inaccurate. I never learned Mayan so I have to take the word of archeologists and linguists on what they have found, but they are much more reliable than any other source, at least the ones without religious influence.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Using your own myth as fact doesn't make it fact.

Well it is your option to disregard the evidence. but on what basis I might ask?

As I said, it's all myth you are using, not fact. Basing anything on religious myth is not going to give you answers to history, all it does it stop you from seeking the true history. I have read (yes I read Ancient Egyptian) and can verify everything there, as well as point out the fact that the christian bible is completely inaccurate. I never learned Mayan so I have to take the word of archeologists and linguists on what they have found, but they are much more reliable than any other source, at least the ones without religious influence.

Just because I believe the book of mormon doesn't make it a myth. Especially when I have drawn parallels to make the story plausible. I think calling it a myth is a stretch seeing as a myth is generally regarded as fable. It might be more accurate from your standpoint to call it an "unproven claim."
At least be fair enough to say the jury is still out on the subject. Because it hasn't been proven true or false yet.

 

[KittenKoder]

Well it is your option to disregard the evidence. but on what basis I might ask?

As I said, it's all myth you are using, not fact. Basing anything on religious myth is not going to give you answers to history, all it does it stop you from seeking the true history. I have read (yes I read Ancient Egyptian) and can verify everything there, as well as point out the fact that the christian bible is completely inaccurate. I never learned Mayan so I have to take the word of archeologists and linguists on what they have found, but they are much more reliable than any other source, at least the ones without religious influence.

Just because I believe the book of mormon doesn't make it a myth. Especially when I have drawn parallels to make the story plausible. I think calling it a myth is a stretch seeing as a myth is generally regarded as fable. It might be more accurate from your standpoint to call it an "unproven claim."
At least be fair enough to say the jury is still out on the subject. Because it hasn't been proven true or false yet.

Anything can be made plausible no matter how much of a myth it is, look at Notrodamus.

 

[Truthspeaker]

As I said, it's all myth you are using, not fact. Basing anything on religious myth is not going to give you answers to history, all it does it stop you from seeking the true history. I have read (yes I read Ancient Egyptian) and can verify everything there, as well as point out the fact that the christian bible is completely inaccurate. I never learned Mayan so I have to take the word of archeologists and linguists on what they have found, but they are much more reliable than any other source, at least the ones without religious influence.

Just because I believe the book of mormon doesn't make it a myth. Especially when I have drawn parallels to make the story plausible. I think calling it a myth is a stretch seeing as a myth is generally regarded as fable. It might be more accurate from your standpoint to call it an "unproven claim."
At least be fair enough to say the jury is still out on the subject. Because it hasn't been proven true or false yet.

Anything can be made plausible no matter how much of a myth it is, look at Notrodamus.

At last, I win!!!!!! You have finally admitted that it is plausible. I'll take my ball and go home now

 

[KittenKoder]

Just because I believe the book of mormon doesn't make it a myth. Especially when I have drawn parallels to make the story plausible. I think calling it a myth is a stretch seeing as a myth is generally regarded as fable. It might be more accurate from your standpoint to call it an "unproven claim."
At least be fair enough to say the jury is still out on the subject. Because it hasn't been proven true or false yet.

Anything can be made plausible no matter how much of a myth it is, look at Notrodamus.

At last, I win!!!!!! You have finally admitted that it is plausible. I'll take my ball and go home now

You know that Nostrodamus was no more scientific than Dr. Suess right?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Anything can be made plausible no matter how much of a myth it is, look at Notrodamus.

At last, I win!!!!!! You have finally admitted that it is plausible. I'll take my ball and go home now

You know that Nostrodamus was no more scientific than Dr. Suess right?

So what? Scientists aren't the only ones allowed to make intelligent statements. Everybody loves Socrates and his statements, and confucius, but they weren't scientists.

 

[KittenKoder]

At last, I win!!!!!! You have finally admitted that it is plausible. I'll take my ball and go home now

You know that Nostrodamus was no more scientific than Dr. Suess right?

So what? Scientists aren't the only ones allowed to make intelligent statements. Everybody loves Socrates and his statements, and confucius, but they weren't scientists.

You really are just fishing to convert people, still a mormon, even when you are wrong.