Depressions And Recessions

[EdwardBaiamonte]

FDR said he was going to experiment, try new things and he did. Not every idea worked but he kept trying.

Yes and the result of idiotic liberal anti-capitalist trying was 16 years of depression and world war with 60 million dead. Possibly it was the worst record in all of human history. Can anyway suggest someone who did worse?

 

[regent]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

 

[Moonglow]

Important point: almost none of them lasted over a year or two.

a. "The depression of the 1890s did not fully abate until 1897."
Panic of 1893

 

[Moonglow]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

When did FDR serve 16 years?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

When did FDR serve 16 years?

FDR was just a continuation of Hoover:

We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started.
Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

 

[regent]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

Read some history.

 

[Rshermr]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

Read some history.

You are assuming ed can read. That is called, technically, living dangerously.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

Read some history.

You are assuming ed can read. That is called, technically, living dangerously.

How do you do worse than FDR who had 16 years of depression and world war during which which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is? If Trump got elected and we had 16 years of depression and 60 million dead would that make him a hero to liberals.

 

[Rshermr]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

When did FDR serve 16 years?

He did not. Of course, as you know. But they do not teach basic math until a grade beyond which ed has ever been allowed to participate.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

When did FDR serve 16 years?

He did not. Of course, as you know. But they do not teach basic math until a grade beyond which ed has ever been allowed to participate.

liberal FDR was continuation of liberal Hoover!! Sorry to rock your world!


"We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

 

[Rshermr]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

Read some history.

You are assuming ed can read. That is called, technically, living dangerously.

How do you do worse than FDR who had 16 years of depression and world war during which which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is? If Trump got elected and we had 16 years of depression and 60 million dead would that make him a hero to liberals.

No, but he would be a hero to you, dipshit. Only you are so stupid that it hurts.
The recession was over by 1939 The ue rate was good by 1944. Now, lets try to count, me poor ignorant con troll. The depression started in 1929. Roosevelt took over the presidency in 1933. That would be, me boy, 5 years. Trust me, dipshit. You really can not count that high.
So, dipshit, the ue rate was about 4% in 1929, but by early 1933 it was 25%. Highest ever, me poor ignorant con troll. That is 21 points of ue growth in 5 years. That, dipshit, is really, really bad.
So, it started down under Rosevelt, as all rational people know. In 6 years economists say the depression ended. By 1942 the ue rate was under 5. Dipshit.
So, Roosevelt oversaw the fastest decline in ue rates ever. That was over 2.5% per year. Dipshit.
And we all hope that some day you will learn how to count. Dipshit.
Oh, and how did FDR do better than 16 years of depression? Easy. It was over in 6. And only a congenital idiot would blame FDR for WWII. Oh, I forgot, it is you, ed. And you are a congenital idiot.

So, the republicans caused the great republican depression of 1929. And it took until 1933 to get the criminals out of office. then it took republicans 6 years to end the depression, and 9 years to bring the ue rate to under 4%. And that is the way it is in the old west.

 

[Rshermr]

Historians suggests all the presidents did worse than FDR.

How do you do worse than 16 years of depression and world war in which 60 million were killed. See how truly sick liberalism is?

When did FDR serve 16 years?

He did not. Of course, as you know. But they do not teach basic math until a grade beyond which ed has ever been allowed to participate.

liberal FDR was continuation of liberal Hoover!! Sorry to rock your world!


"We didn't admit it at the time, but practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Guy Tugwell, Roosevelt Advisor

You are such a stupid fuck, ed. Hoover did nothing until his last year. And what he did was implemented by FDR, not Hoover.
So, though you are a congenital idiot, you noticed what all of us rational folks noticed decades ago. Hoover finally caught on at the end that something had to happen. Doing as ed suggests caused the worst depression in the history of the US. Stimulus of hoover's late mind and the policies of FDR saved the economy. funny how cons make all the worst recessions, but except for reagan, run from them and lie as soon as they can.
Over and out. Arguing with ed is too much like arguing with an iguana.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Hoover did nothing until his last year. And what he did was implemented by FDR, not Hoover.

1) so why did FDR say they copied Hoover?? I guess he didn't know ho he copied??

2)
... the Hoover interventions include: expanded public works( ever heard of Hoover dam), greater government control over agriculture, the Smoot-Hawley tariff, a virtual end to immigration, government loans for construction and other businesses ... Most important was Hoover’s pressuring businesses to not cut wages even as the prices of their output fell. The result was higher real wages, which were responsible for the unemployment rate topping out at 25 percent, causing the greatest human toll of the Great Depression. [1]
Hoover, much like FDR, was skeptical about free markets. [2]

Hoover's Economic Policies: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Hoover extended the size and scope of the federal government in six major areas: (1) federal spending, (2) agriculture, (3) wage policy, (4) immigration, (5) international trade, and (6) tax policy.

Consider federal government spending. (See Fiscal Policy.) Federal spending in the 1929 budget that Hoover inherited was $3.1 billion. He increased spending to $3.3 billion in 1930, $3.6 billion in 1931, and $4.7 billion and $4.6 billion in 1932 and 1933, respectively, a 48% increase over his four years. Because this was a period of deflation, the real increase in government spending was even larger: The real size of government spending in 1933 was almost double that of 1929.5 The budget deficits of 1931 and 1932 were 52.5% and 43.3% of total federal expenditures. No year between 1933 and 1941 under Roosevelt had a deficit that large.6 In short, Hoover was no defender of “austerity” and “budget cutting.”

Shortly after the stock market crash in October 1929, Hoover extended federal control over agriculture by expanding the reach of the Federal Farm Board (FFB), which had been created a few months earlier.7 The idea behind the FFB was to make government-funded loans to farm cooperatives and create “stabilization corporations” to keep farm prices up and deal with surpluses. In other words, it was a cartel plan. That fall, Hoover pushed the FFB into full action, lending to farmers all over the country and otherwise subsidizing farming in an attempt to keep prices up. The plan failed miserably, as subsidies encouraged farmers to grow more, exacerbating surpluses and eventually driving prices way down. As more farms faced dire circumstances, Hoover proposed the further anti-market step of paying farmers not to grow.

On wages, Hoover revived the business-government conferences of his time at the Department of Commerce by summoning major business leaders to the White House several times that fall. He asked them to pledge not to reduce wages in the face of rising unemployment. Hoover believed, as did a number of intellectuals at the time, that high wages caused prosperity, even though the true causation is from capital accumulation to increased labor productivity to higher wages. He argued that if major firms cut wages, workers would not have the purchasing power they needed to buy the goods being produced. As most depressions involve falling prices, cutting wages to match falling prices would have kept purchasing power constant. What Hoover wanted amounted to an increase in real wages, as constant nominal wages would be able to purchase more goods at falling prices. Presumably out of fear of the White House or, perhaps, because it would keep the unions quiet, industrial leaders agreed to this proposal. The result was rapidly escalating unemployment, as firms quickly realized that they could not continue to employ as many workers when their output prices were falling and labor costs were constant.8

Of all of the government failures of the Hoover presidency—excluding the actions of the Federal Reserve between 1929 and 1932, over which he had little to no influence—his attempt to maintain wages was the most damaging. Had he truly believed in laissez-faire, Hoover would not have intervened in the private sector that way. Hoover’s high-wage policy was a clear example of his lack of confidence in the corrective forces of the market and his willingness to use governmental power to fight the depression.

Later in his presidency, Hoover did more than just jawbone to keep wages up. He signed two pieces of labor legislation that dramatically increased the role of government in propping up wages and giving monopoly protection to unions. In 1931, he signed the Davis-Bacon Act, which mandated that all federally funded or assisted construction projects pay the “prevailing wage” (i.e., the above market-clearing union wage). The result of this move was to close out non-union labor, especially immigrants and non-whites, and drive up costs to taxpayers. A year later, he signed the Norris-LaGuardia Act, whose five major provisions each enshrined special provisions for unions in the law, such as prohibiting judges from using injunctions to stop strikes and making union-free contracts unenforceable in federal courts.9Hoover’s interventions into the labor market are further evidence of his rejection of laissez-faire.

Two other areas that Hoover intervened in aggressively wereimmigration and international trade. One of the lesser-known policy changes during his presidency was his near halt to immigration through an Executive Order in September 1930. His argument was that blocking immigration would preserve the jobs and wages of American citizens against competition from low-wage immigrants. Immigration fell to a mere 10 to 15% of the allowable quota of visas for the five-month period ending February 28, 1931. Once again, Hoover was unafraid to intervene in the economic decisions of the private sector by preventing the competitive forces of the global labor market from setting wages.10

Even those with only a casual knowledge of the Great Depression will be familiar with one of Hoover's major policy mistakes—his promotion and signing of the Smoot-Hawley tariff in 1930. This law increased tariffs significantly on a wide variety of imported goods, creating the highest tariff rates in U.S. history. While economist Douglas Irwin has found that Smoot-Hawley’s effects were not as large as often thought, they still helped cause a decline in international trade, a decline that contributed to the worsening worldwide depression.

Most of these policies continued and many expanded throughout 1931, with the economy worsening each month. By the end of the year, Hoover decided that more drastic action was necessary, and on December 8, he addressed Congress and offered proposals that historian David Kennedy refers to as “Hoover’s second program, ” and that has also been called “The Hoover New Deal.”11 His proposals included:

•

The Reconstruction Finance Corporation to lend tax dollars to banks, firms and others institutions in need.

•

A Home Loan Bank to provide government help to the construction sector.

•

Congressional legalization of Hoover’s executive order that had blocked immigration.

•

Direct loans to state governments for spending on relief for the unemployed.

•

More aid to Federal Land Banks.

•

Creating a Public Works Administration that would both better coordinate Federal public works and expand them.

•

More vigorous enforcement of antitrust laws to end “destructive competition” in a variety of industries, as well as supporting work-sharing programs that would supposedly reduce unemployment.

On top of these spending proposals, most of which were approved in one form or another, Hoover proposed, and Congress approved, the largest peacetime tax increase in U.S. history. The Revenue Act of 1932 increased personal income taxes dramatically, but also brought back a variety of excise taxes that had been used during World War I. The higher income taxes involved an increase of the standard rate from a range of 1.5 to 5% to a range of 4 to 8%. On top of that increase, the Act placed a large surtax on higher-income earners, leading to a total tax rate of anywhere from 25 to 63%. The Act also raised the corporate income tax along with several taxes on other forms of income and wealth.

Whether or not Hoover's prescriptions were the right medicine—and the evidence suggests that they were not—his programs were a fairly aggressive use of government to address the problems of the depression.12 These programs were hardly what one would expect from a man devoted to “laissez-faire” and accused of doing nothing while the depression worsened.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Stimulus of hoover's late mind and the policies of FDR saved the economy.

16 years of depression and world war saved the economy??? IF Trump causes that will he be your hero too???

 

[Rshermr]

Hoover did nothing until his last year. And what he did was implemented by FDR, not Hoover.

Ed. You must be proud. That is a big cut and paste. Complete with no link.
Cut and paste is a real accomplishment for you. Now, take your head out of your ass and provide a link. Nah, just fuck off because you are not worth the effort.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Hoover did nothing until his last year. And what he did was implemented by FDR, not Hoover.

Ed. You must be proud. That is a big cut and paste. Complete with no link.
Cut and paste is a real accomplishment for you. Now, take your head out of your ass and provide a link. Nah, just fuck off because you are not worth the effort.

Hoover was a great liberal copied by FDR:

Hoover extended the size and scope of the federal government in six major areas: (1) federal spending, (2) agriculture, (3) wage policy, (4) immigration, (5) international trade, and (6) tax policy.

Consider federal government spending. (See Fiscal Policy.) Federal spending in the 1929 budget that Hoover inherited was $3.1 billion. He increased spending to $3.3 billion in 1930, $3.6 billion in 1931, and $4.7 billion and $4.6 billion in 1932 and 1933, respectively, a 48% increase over his four years. Because this was a period of deflation, the real increase in government spending was even larger: The real size of government spending in 1933 was almost double that of 1929.5 The budget deficits of 1931 and 1932 were 52.5% and 43.3% of total federal expenditures. No year between 1933 and 1941 under Roosevelt had a deficit that large.6 In short, Hoover was no defender of “austerity” and “budget cutting.”

Shortly after the stock market crash in October 1929, Hoover extended federal control over agriculture by expanding the reach of the Federal Farm Board (FFB), which had been created a few months earlier.7 The idea behind the FFB was to make government-funded loans to farm cooperatives and create “stabilization corporations” to keep farm prices up and deal with surpluses. In other words, it was a cartel plan. That fall, Hoover pushed the FFB into full action, lending to farmers all over the country and otherwise subsidizing farming in an attempt to keep prices up. The plan failed miserably, as subsidies encouraged farmers to grow more, exacerbating surpluses and eventually driving prices way down. As more farms faced dire circumstances, Hoover proposed the further anti-market step of paying farmers not to grow.

On wages, Hoover revived the business-government conferences of his time at the Department of Commerce by summoning major business leaders to the White House several times that fall. He asked them to pledge not to reduce wages in the face of rising unemployment. Hoover believed, as did a number of intellectuals at the time, that high wages caused prosperity, even though the true causation is from capital accumulation to increased labor productivity to higher wages. He argued that if major firms cut wages, workers would not have the purchasing power they needed to buy the goods being produced. As most depressions involve falling prices, cutting wages to match falling prices would have kept purchasing power constant. What Hoover wanted amounted to an increase in real wages, as constant nominal wages would be able to purchase more goods at falling prices. Presumably out of fear of the White House or, perhaps, because it would keep the unions quiet, industrial leaders agreed to this proposal. The result was rapidly escalating unemployment, as firms quickly realized that they could not continue to employ as many workers when their output prices were falling and labor costs were constant.8

Of all of the government failures of the Hoover presidency—excluding the actions of the Federal Reserve between 1929 and 1932, over which he had little to no influence—his attempt to maintain wages was the most damaging. Had he truly believed in laissez-faire, Hoover would not have intervened in the private sector that way. Hoover’s high-wage policy was a clear example of his lack of confidence in the corrective forces of the market and his willingness to use governmental power to fight the depression.

Later in his presidency, Hoover did more than just jawbone to keep wages up. He signed two pieces of labor legislation that dramatically increased the role of government in propping up wages and giving monopoly protection to unions. In 1931, he signed the Davis-Bacon Act, which mandated that all federally funded or assisted construction projects pay the “prevailing wage” (i.e., the above market-clearing union wage). The result of this move was to close out non-union labor, especially immigrants and non-whites, and drive up costs to taxpayers. A year later, he signed the Norris-LaGuardia Act, whose five major provisions each enshrined special provisions for unions in the law, such as prohibiting judges from using injunctions to stop strikes and making union-free contracts unenforceable in federal courts.9Hoover’s interventions into the labor market are further evidence of his rejection of laissez-faire.

Two other areas that Hoover intervened in aggressively wereimmigration and international trade. One of the lesser-known policy changes during his presidency was his near halt to immigration through an Executive Order in September 1930. His argument was that blocking immigration would preserve the jobs and wages of American citizens against competition from low-wage immigrants. Immigration fell to a mere 10 to 15% of the allowable quota of visas for the five-month period ending February 28, 1931. Once again, Hoover was unafraid to intervene in the economic decisions of the private sector by preventing the competitive forces of the global labor market from setting wages.10

Even those with only a casual knowledge of the Great Depression will be familiar with one of Hoover's major policy mistakes—his promotion and signing of the Smoot-Hawley tariff in 1930. This law increased tariffs significantly on a wide variety of imported goods, creating the highest tariff rates in U.S. history. While economist Douglas Irwin has found that Smoot-Hawley’s effects were not as large as often thought, they still helped cause a decline in international trade, a decline that contributed to the worsening worldwide depression.

Most of these policies continued and many expanded throughout 1931, with the economy worsening each month. By the end of the year, Hoover decided that more drastic action was necessary, and on December 8, he addressed Congress and offered proposals that historian David Kennedy refers to as “Hoover’s second program, ” and that has also been called “The Hoover New Deal.”11 His proposals included:

•

The Reconstruction Finance Corporation to lend tax dollars to banks, firms and others institutions in need.

•

A Home Loan Bank to provide government help to the construction sector.

•

Congressional legalization of Hoover’s executive order that had blocked immigration.

•

Direct loans to state governments for spending on relief for the unemployed.

•

More aid to Federal Land Banks.

•

Creating a Public Works Administration that would both better coordinate Federal public works and expand them.

•

More vigorous enforcement of antitrust laws to end “destructive competition” in a variety of industries, as well as supporting work-sharing programs that would supposedly reduce unemployment.

On top of these spending proposals, most of which were approved in one form or another, Hoover proposed, and Congress approved, the largest peacetime tax increase in U.S. history. The Revenue Act of 1932 increased personal income taxes dramatically, but also brought back a variety of excise taxes that had been used during World War I. The higher income taxes involved an increase of the standard rate from a range of 1.5 to 5% to a range of 4 to 8%. On top of that increase, the Act placed a large surtax on higher-income earners, leading to a total tax rate of anywhere from 25 to 63%. The Act also raised the corporate income tax along with several taxes on other forms of income and wealth.

Whether or not Hoover's prescriptions were the right medicine—and the evidence suggests that they were not—his programs were a fairly aggressive use of government to address the problems of the depression.12 These programs were hardly what one would expect from a man devoted to “laissez-faire” and accused of doing nothing while the depression worsened.





... the Hoover interventions include: expanded public works( ever heard of Hoover dam), greater government control over agriculture, the Smoot-Hawley tariff, a virtual end to immigration, government loans for construction and other businesses ... Most important was Hoover’s pressuring businesses to not cut wages even as the prices of their output fell. The result was higher real wages, which were responsible for the unemployment rate topping out at 25 percent, causing the greatest human toll of the Great Depression. [1]
Hoover, much like FDR, was skeptical about free markets. [2]
Hoover's Economic Policies: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

 

[Abishai100]

Internet Saves the Day


How does the reach of the tech market and NASDAQ appear in comparison to the farming market in modern times?

Assessing the connection between technology and agriculture seems to be the new frontier that I think addresses some of the rather fun points made by PoliticalChic. Can't we connect politics to capitalism culture?