Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

[daveman]

It's kind of hard to have an intelligent conversation with you if you engage in the most base stereotypes.

Oh, but it's okay when you do it? Please.

Here's some facts about the "Welfare State".

? What The Right Doesn?t Want You To Know About Welfare: 9 Myths Exploded

According to statisticbrain.com, the vast majority of TANF recipients, 80.4 percent, receive benefits for five years or less. (The site still refers to the program by the old name of Aid To Families With Dependent Children. AFDC is the program that seems to be most often identified with the term “welfare.” AFDC programs were replaced at the federal level by TANF in 1996, but it is still common to hear the program referred to as AFDC.)

But let's pretend you are right? What are you offering in exchange?

Work very hard for an employer who will exploit the fuck out of you and discard you the minute you get sick or have a problem?

Exactly what good has your incessant whining done you? No one has offered you a job with full-coverage insurance with no co-pays. No one has offered you free money in exchange for no work. No one has offered you a corner office and power once your glorious Worker's Revolution (that you're too lazy and cowardly to initiate or participate in) happens.

It's past time for you to grow the hell up, Iosef. Life isn't fair, and whoever told you it is lied to you. People with far greater personal tragedies than yours have risen above them and thrived and succeeded.

The Man isn't keeping you down. YOU are.

Ah, so you couldn't really refute the fact that what you think of "Them Welfare People" isn't born out by, you know, facts... So let's just make broad generalizations about Joe because, fuck, he's actually had to work in the private sector instead of sucking off the government teet like you've done all your life.

Kind of like them welfare people you imagine exist.

Skippy, it's not me who's pretending Obama hasn't drastically increased the numbers of people on government assistance.

Of course, you're hooked through the bag. You'll NEVER criticize Obama. You'll mindlessly comply with your programming and blame Bush, the GOP, and conservatives.

Meanwhile, your position in life is a DIRECT result of your choices. Quit blaming other people.

 

[daveman]

Yes, and like most libertarians, you have the civil awareness of a child-like retard.

The rich love suckers like you.

Like most Communists, you have the civil awareness of a child-like retard.

Totalitarians love suckers like you.

Just because you want the freedom to be exploited by rich people, the rest of us are, "meh, not so much".

Thing is, you don't want freedom at all. You want the government to make all your decisions for you.

How fucking pathetic is that?

 

[daveman]

Hey, DBlack, I just went over to my sink and got some Government Water!

Damned government, spending money to make the water fit to drink and providing it safely and securely to all citizens.

Don't they respect our FREEDOM?

You're free to drink sewer water if you want.

And as much of Obama's shit as you eat, you'd probably like sewer water.

 

[daveman]

Whatever. I just want fools like you to have something to look back on - some sort of demarcation of their mistake. When the shit hits the fan and fascism takes hold, you'll know what part you played.

Yawn, guy.

Frankly, I'll be happy to live in a country where every citizen is promised health care as a right.

The mistake was not fixing this system years ago.

Good, I'll buy you a ticket to Cuba.

Iosef is a chickenred.

Someone who advocates Communism but is too cowardly to move to a Communist nation; who advocates the destruction of the US Constitution while hiding behind its protections; who condemns the American consumerism lifestyle while living that same lifestyle.

That woman at the protest handing out pro-Castro literature is a chickenred...she'd never move to Cuba.​

 

[JoeB131]

[
Skippy, it's not me who's pretending Obama hasn't drastically increased the numbers of people on government assistance.

Of course, you're hooked through the bag. You'll NEVER criticize Obama. You'll mindlessly comply with your programming and blame Bush, the GOP, and conservatives.

Meanwhile, your position in life is a DIRECT result of your choices. Quit blaming other people.

Obama did all that? Really?

I really don't talk that much about Obama one way or the other. Didn't vote for him in 2008, only voted for him in 2012 because I hate Mormons.

But the reason why we have more people on welfare now is because the GOP has spent 30 years making war on the MIddle class with Free Trade, right to work, union busting and at-will employment.

ANd now you are surprised when they vote in a guy you don't like?

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, DBlack, I just went over to my sink and got some Government Water!

Damned government, spending money to make the water fit to drink and providing it safely and securely to all citizens.

Don't they respect our FREEDOM?

You're free to drink sewer water if you want.

And as much of Obama's shit as you eat, you'd probably like sewer water.

You missed my point.

The government- in this case the DuPage County Water reclamation district - spends a lot of money making sure that the water I get to drink is safe.

Not a "private company" making a profit, but a government agency run by people who are damned good at their jobs.

And you know what, this isn't "Communism" and it doesn't make me less free because they do it.

I can't think of a single valid reason why we shouldn't run health care the same way.

And your sputtering about "Freedom" and "Communism" probably won't make much of an impression in that regard.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Thing is, you don't want freedom at all. You want the government to make all your decisions for you.

How fucking pathetic is that?

No, I just think there are some things the government can run better than the private sector.

I've been in a Government Run Health Care system (the Army) and the private sector.

I've had operations in both.

And as always, I find it amusing that someone who collects far more from the government teet than I do is talking about "Freedom". It's hilarious.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Like most Communists, you have the civil awareness of a child-like retard.

Totalitarians love suckers like you.

Just because you want the freedom to be exploited by rich people, the rest of us are, "meh, not so much".

Thing is, you don't want freedom at all. You want the government to make all your decisions for you.

How fucking pathetic is that?

Indeed. that's the point with these mindless slaves. I'm curious, however, where their loyalties will go when that incompetent fool is gone to the never-ending golf game.....

I mean, let's assume that a republican is elected to the White House. Will these goose stepping fools follow him blindly, as well?

 

[Rikurzhen]

You missed my point.

The government- in this case the DuPage County Water reclamation district - spends a lot of money making sure that the water I get to drink is safe.

Not a "private company" making a profit, but a government agency run by people who are damned good at their jobs.

Water districts have to install a LOT of infrastructure before they can sell one drop of water. This is something better suited to government than private enterprise.

I can't think of a single valid reason why we shouldn't run health care the same way.

I can. I'm not harmed nor do I receive a benefit if YOU consume or do not consume water from the local water company. I am harmed when I have to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. Your personal health benefits you, not me, so why should I have to pay for your health care? Do I pay for your vacation to Hawaii? Should you pay for that Ferrari that I want you (taxpayer) to buy for me? After all, if I have to pay for you hemorrhoid operation and you are the only one who benefits, then why shouldn't you pay for my Ferrari so that I can claim all the joy driving it.

Water districts are collective, like national defense, or policing - if the cops help you when you're victimized by crime, that doesn't harm me, because my taxes pay for policing and police presence and law and order, all collective goods. Health care though is a private good. I don't benefit when you get your hemorrhoids treated by a surgeon, just like you don't benefit when I get to drive a Ferrari.

And your sputtering about "Freedom" and "Communism" probably won't make much of an impression in that regard.[/QUOTE]

 

[JoeB131]

[

I can. I'm not harmed nor do I receive a benefit if YOU consume or do not consume water from the local water company. I am harmed when I have to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. Your personal health benefits you, not me, so why should I have to pay for your health care? Do I pay for your vacation to Hawaii? Should you pay for that Ferrari that I want you (taxpayer) to buy for me? After all, if I have to pay for you hemorrhoid operation and you are the only one who benefits, then why shouldn't you pay for my Ferrari so that I can claim all the joy driving it.

Water districts are collective, like national defense, or policing - if the cops help you when you're victimized by crime, that doesn't harm me, because my taxes pay for policing and police presence and law and order, all collective goods. Health care though is a private good. I don't benefit when you get your hemorrhoids treated by a surgeon, just like you don't benefit when I get to drive a Ferrari.
]

This is closer to an intelligent argument that the last six pages of Libertarian Retards screaming about Freedom and the founding fathers.

Okay, let's bottom line it. Is health care a public service or a consumer good? Most of the rest of the world already had this conversation and decided it was a public service. As a result, they spend less and have better results.

Health care is already a collective. It's just a collective run by a private agency (insurance bought through employers) rather than a government. If you are working for/paying for insurance, and you don't get sick that year, you are already paying for someone else's hemorrhoid operation. The benefit you get is that when you get sick, someone else will pay for your health care if it exceeds what you are paying into it after a certain time.

Where it all falls apart is that the government ALREADY has to pick up the elderly (Medicare) the poor (Medicaid) veterans (The VA) because by and large, private insurance won't touch them if their conditions are serious enough. Further, some companies are outright gaming the system like McDonalds or WalMart, that are directing their employees to MediCaid instead of creating an insurance program for a lot of them.

The further problem with private insurance is that it supports a bunch of non-value added expenses like nine figure salaries for guys like Ed Hanaway (Famous for denying a dying teenager a liver transplant) and huge payouts to stockholders when they have a good year of denying people liver transplants.

Final point. The thing is, the current awful system you are already paying for. Because we spend 17% of our GDP on health care, spread out through the rest of the economy, it makes our goods and services less competitive than countries like Germany or Japan that have single payer and are only spending 8% of GDP and getting far better results.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Indeed. that's the point with these mindless slaves. I'm curious, however, where their loyalties will go when that incompetent fool is gone to the never-ending golf game.....

I mean, let's assume that a republican is elected to the White House. Will these goose stepping fools follow him blindly, as well?

As long as the GOP continues to be as batshit crazy as it is, I'm not that worried they'd ever get back into the White House.

There simply aren't enough angry white males to sustain it.

First, they have to figure out a way to not offend minorities who aren't full of self-loathing.

Then they have to stop offending women by implying they are sluts because they want to control whether they have babies or not.

Probably on the to-do list is to stop screwing over working folks in favor of big multi-national corporations.

 

[Andylusion]

[
Indeed. that's the point with these mindless slaves. I'm curious, however, where their loyalties will go when that incompetent fool is gone to the never-ending golf game.....

I mean, let's assume that a republican is elected to the White House. Will these goose stepping fools follow him blindly, as well?

As long as the GOP continues to be as batshit crazy as it is, I'm not that worried they'd ever get back into the White House.

There simply aren't enough angry white males to sustain it.

First, they have to figure out a way to not offend minorities who aren't full of self-loathing.

Then they have to stop offending women by implying they are sluts because they want to control whether they have babies or not.

Probably on the to-do list is to stop screwing over working folks in favor of big multi-national corporations.

Like a DNC talking point memo. Yeah, we've heard all of these claims before. In fact, we heard them back in 1999. We heard the same thing in 2010.

Usually I tend to hear these lame excuses from the left, being loudly proclaimed all over the place, just before a landslide loss. It's no prediction, but thus far the fortune telling ability of the left has a lousy track record.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Water districts have to install a LOT of infrastructure before they can sell one drop of water. This is something better suited to government than private enterprise.

Yet my local water company is private - a cooperative of homeowners. It is far better than the city water I've dealt with in the past.

I can. I'm not harmed nor do I receive a benefit if YOU consume or do not consume water from the local water company. I am harmed when I have to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. Your personal health benefits you, not me, so why should I have to pay for your health care? Do I pay for your vacation to Hawaii? Should you pay for that Ferrari that I want you (taxpayer) to buy for me? After all, if I have to pay for you hemorrhoid operation and you are the only one who benefits, then why shouldn't you pay for my Ferrari so that I can claim all the joy driving it.

Logic is wasted on Comrade Stalin.

Water districts are collective, like national defense, or policing - if the cops help you when you're victimized by crime, that doesn't harm me, because my taxes pay for policing and police presence and law and order, all collective goods. Health care though is a private good. I don't benefit when you get your hemorrhoids treated by a surgeon, just like you don't benefit when I get to drive a Ferrari.

Yet the best one I've dealt with is private, owned by the customers, who are all shareholders.

And your sputtering about "Freedom" and "Communism" probably won't make much of an impression in that regard.

[/QUOTE]

JoeB makes an impression, just not a positive one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You missed my point.

The government- in this case the DuPage County Water reclamation district - spends a lot of money making sure that the water I get to drink is safe.

Not a "private company" making a profit, but a government agency run by people who are damned good at their jobs.

Water districts have to install a LOT of infrastructure before they can sell one drop of water. This is something better suited to government than private enterprise.

I can't think of a single valid reason why we shouldn't run health care the same way.

I can. I'm not harmed nor do I receive a benefit if YOU consume or do not consume water from the local water company. I am harmed when I have to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. Your personal health benefits you, not me, so why should I have to pay for your health care? Do I pay for your vacation to Hawaii? Should you pay for that Ferrari that I want you (taxpayer) to buy for me? After all, if I have to pay for you hemorrhoid operation and you are the only one who benefits, then why shouldn't you pay for my Ferrari so that I can claim all the joy driving it.

Water districts are collective, like national defense, or policing - if the cops help you when you're victimized by crime, that doesn't harm me, because my taxes pay for policing and police presence and law and order, all collective goods. Health care though is a private good. I don't benefit when you get your hemorrhoids treated by a surgeon, just like you don't benefit when I get to drive a Ferrari.

And your sputtering about "Freedom" and "Communism" probably won't make much of an impression in that regard.

Most of that infrastructure is installed by private contractors that are required to do so under numerous local laws that force them to give their work to the water districts, which means that the government actually steals the infrastructure from the private market. But thanks for displaying your massive ignorance about how government works.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

I can. I'm not harmed nor do I receive a benefit if YOU consume or do not consume water from the local water company. I am harmed when I have to pay for your hemorrhoid operation. Your personal health benefits you, not me, so why should I have to pay for your health care? Do I pay for your vacation to Hawaii? Should you pay for that Ferrari that I want you (taxpayer) to buy for me? After all, if I have to pay for you hemorrhoid operation and you are the only one who benefits, then why shouldn't you pay for my Ferrari so that I can claim all the joy driving it.

Water districts are collective, like national defense, or policing - if the cops help you when you're victimized by crime, that doesn't harm me, because my taxes pay for policing and police presence and law and order, all collective goods. Health care though is a private good. I don't benefit when you get your hemorrhoids treated by a surgeon, just like you don't benefit when I get to drive a Ferrari.
]

This is closer to an intelligent argument that the last six pages of Libertarian Retards screaming about Freedom and the founding fathers.

Okay, let's bottom line it. Is health care a public service or a consumer good? Most of the rest of the world already had this conversation and decided it was a public service. As a result, they spend less and have better results.

Health care is already a collective. It's just a collective run by a private agency (insurance bought through employers) rather than a government. If you are working for/paying for insurance, and you don't get sick that year, you are already paying for someone else's hemorrhoid operation. The benefit you get is that when you get sick, someone else will pay for your health care if it exceeds what you are paying into it after a certain time.

Where it all falls apart is that the government ALREADY has to pick up the elderly (Medicare) the poor (Medicaid) veterans (The VA) because by and large, private insurance won't touch them if their conditions are serious enough. Further, some companies are outright gaming the system like McDonalds or WalMart, that are directing their employees to MediCaid instead of creating an insurance program for a lot of them.

The further problem with private insurance is that it supports a bunch of non-value added expenses like nine figure salaries for guys like Ed Hanaway (Famous for denying a dying teenager a liver transplant) and huge payouts to stockholders when they have a good year of denying people liver transplants.

Final point. The thing is, the current awful system you are already paying for. Because we spend 17% of our GDP on health care, spread out through the rest of the economy, it makes our goods and services less competitive than countries like Germany or Japan that have single payer and are only spending 8% of GDP and getting far better results.

The only people that think that is an intelligent argument are the people that support the government stealing from people.

 

[Mathbud1]

Obama sold Obamacare to a bunch of rubes.

* With regard to children in particular, some 70% of uninsured youngsters were eligible for either Medicaid, SCHIP, or both programs, but their parents had never*filled out the necessary paperwork.

* It is not legitimate to argue that such people had no access to health insurance. Indeed, Medicaid and children’s health programs allow patients literally to enroll in the emergency room. [TTM: pp. 37-39, 67, 93-94;* DOHL: Loc. 1514-17, 1526-30;* TAO: Loc. 798-800, 859-861, 865-870]

* (C) About 6 million people—or 13% of the uninsured—were eligible for employer-sponsored insurance but chose not to take advantage of it. [TAO: Loc. 801-802]

* (D) More than 10 million uninsured were not U.S. citizens. According to Census data, these included 5 million recently-arrived legal immigrants, and 5.2 million illegal immigrants. [TTM: p. 36;* TAO: Loc. 802-805]"

Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

I've worked with lots of people who elected not to get insurance from their employer because they thought they could save enough by not paying premiums to pay for any health care needs they would have. They were wrong, but the point is really that they chose not to get insurance.

 

[Mathbud1]

Nope, I don't think it's right to get rich on other people's pain and suffering.

It strikes me that if government control means less spending, everyone is covered, no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, people live longer and less babies die, this is a good thing making people conform.

Oh...wait for it. Wait for it.

"Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

Exactly. Freedom is important to me. Just as, apparently, authoritarian rule is to you. At least you 'own' it.

You know what is important to me- getting the job fucking done.

"Freedom" ain't getting the job done.

Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.
Lowest life expectancy in the industrialized world.
Highest per-capita spend in the world.
62% of bankruptcies are linked to medical crisis.
1 out of 4 Americans with no insurance or inadequate insurance.

That kind of thinking can justify slavery. I can better control good outcomes (or prevent horrible outcomes) for people if I can control their lives completely. I know what's best, and, if you're not going to choose it, I'm going to make you do it.

 

[Mathbud1]

Hey, DBlack, I just went over to my sink and got some Government Water!

Damned government, spending money to make the water fit to drink and providing it safely and securely to all citizens.

Don't they respect our FREEDOM?

Paid your water bill recently?

 

[Mathbud1]

[
Skippy, it's not me who's pretending Obama hasn't drastically increased the numbers of people on government assistance.

Of course, you're hooked through the bag. You'll NEVER criticize Obama. You'll mindlessly comply with your programming and blame Bush, the GOP, and conservatives.

Meanwhile, your position in life is a DIRECT result of your choices. Quit blaming other people.

Obama did all that? Really?

I really don't talk that much about Obama one way or the other. Didn't vote for him in 2008, only voted for him in 2012 because I hate Mormons.

But the reason why we have more people on welfare now is because the GOP has spent 30 years making war on the MIddle class with Free Trade, right to work, union busting and at-will employment.

ANd now you are surprised when they vote in a guy you don't like?

Why am I not shocked that you lump a group of people into a pile and hate them?

Lefters love their groups and divisions.

 

[Mathbud1]

Hey, DBlack, I just went over to my sink and got some Government Water!

Damned government, spending money to make the water fit to drink and providing it safely and securely to all citizens.

Don't they respect our FREEDOM?

You're free to drink sewer water if you want.

And as much of Obama's shit as you eat, you'd probably like sewer water.

You missed my point.

The government- in this case the DuPage County Water reclamation district - spends a lot of money making sure that the water I get to drink is safe.

Not a "private company" making a profit, but a government agency run by people who are damned good at their jobs.

And you know what, this isn't "Communism" and it doesn't make me less free because they do it.

I can't think of a single valid reason why we shouldn't run health care the same way.

And your sputtering about "Freedom" and "Communism" probably won't make much of an impression in that regard.

You mean the way where you get a bill monthly based on your water usage?

(I'm assuming that's the way it works where you live because that is the way it works everywhere I am aware of.)