Democrats Fast-Track Bill To Override Hobby Lobby Decision

[Uncensored2008]

Never heard of felony classifications then huh? Is a First Degree Felony the same as a Third Degree Felony then? Hint: One has a sentencing structure of 5 to life, the other has a max sentence of 5 years. Kind of a little bit pregnant now aren't we?

(Each state has their own felony classification structure.)

Comrade JoeB Stalin views himself as a "little bit retarded."

The rest of us see him as severely retarded.

 

[Andylusion]

Health insurance is compensation.

Here's a simple enough solution. Ban employer health plans. Have them ...

Here's an even simpler solution. Mind your own fucking business. Let people buy, or not buy, whatever kind of insurance they can afford. Let employers offer whatever kind of compensation attracts the employees they need.

Here's the problem with that stupidity.

1) the Uninsured drive up my costs as someone who buys insurance. Again, when I talk about the huge medical bills that cost me my last job (because my employer illegally fired me) part of the reason why those bills were so high was that the hospital soaks the paying customers to cover the deadbeats.

2) Because the insurance company is out to save the employer money, that usually sucks for the employee.

So, no, I'm not going to mind my own business.

Please feel free to start whining about "Freedom" and the "Founding Fathers".

That is not entirely true. Medicare and Medicaid drive up your costs as someone who buys insurance.

The uninsured do not automatically cost other premium payers. There's a couple of reasons why.

First, not all who are uninsured don't pay. You assume that, but I went to the hospital uninsured, and I got a bill, and paid the bill. Yes it cost quite a bit, and yes it required several months to pay, but I did. Many more people than you know, do this.

In fact, I'll make another post later about this recent BBC documentary on this very issue, and one of the people they interviewed had paid all of her hospital bills, without insurance. She was talking about how great Obama Care was because now her health care costs were 100% covered by the tax payers. So someone who was costing you zero, thanks to Obama Care is now costing you 100% of her health care.

The second reason, is because even if they don't pay, the hospital can sell that debt off to a collection agency, and get back either nearly the entire amount, or a fraction of it. So only a small amount has to be cost shifted. They can put a lien on the house, and get the money back when the house of the person owing the money sells the home. The debt can be held till later when the person is more able to pay.

Regardless, the hospital can recoup some or all of the costs of those who don't pay.

The Third reason, is charities can cover the costs. There are actually hundreds of charities that donate to cover costs of uninsured people.

Between all of these, very few of the uninsured costs are shifted to premium payers.

Comparatively, a patient covered by Medicare and Medicaid, can not be charged for the shortfall in cost. Nor can they recover money lost on treating Medicare or Medicaid with debt collection. Nor can they cover the shortfall with charity. In short, the Hospitals and Doctors, and clinic, absolutely must, and do, cover the cost, by shifting cost to premium payers.

This is exactly why the left has been very adamant about framing the debate as 'the cost is due to uninsured', because the reality most of the high costs are due to Medicare and Medicaid.

This has been documented for many many years. As Medicare and Medicaid payouts drop further below the cost of service, the premium payer costs go up in correlation. Equally, when Medicare and Medicaid payouts are driven up through lobbying efforts of the health care industry, the premium payers costs decline back down to relative to the increase.

There is no notable correlation between the level of uninsured, and premium payer costs.

(At least none that I know of yet) If you have such evidence, I will be more than happy to look at it.

Later, I'll post about the BBC Documentary. It was very enlightening.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There's lots of good reasons to waive appeals. ONe of them was his wife got special consideration as part of the deal. She'll actually see daylight again.

You know, the hilarious thing about this case is this is the kind of government overreach you nutters would be against if it didn't involve lady-parts.

The women who had already plead guilty to what amounts to minor felonies is getting special treatment because Gosnell waived the right of appeal? Can you prove that, or am I just supposed to assume you are wrong?

Minor Felonies? Seriously? I never heard of a "Minor" Felony before.

Isn't that like being "A Little Bit Pregnant".

Here's the the thing. the women who copped pleas were probably as guilty as Gosnell. Often they were the ones performing the abortions. In once case, a woman who copped a plea was acting on instructions from Gosnell over the phone.

Not to mention that not one woman who had an abortion at Gosnell's clinic was charged. Hmmmm. Imagine that.

So let's review- Massive overreach followed by a quick plea deal to protect the conviction from appeal, after making a devil's bargain with all the co-conspirators.

Hmmmm. The lengths Anti-Choice nutters go to.

Really? There are classes of felonies in every single state and the federal government. I used the word minor to indicate that the maximum prison term for the felonies she was convicted of is not a life sentence.

In other words, you are an idiot.

Funny how you claim that a woman who had an abotion was charged with a crime, but this site list only people who worked at the clinic. Maybe you can provide a link to prove that it actually happened.

Mug Shots Released After Gosnell, Co-Defendants Arraigned on Murder Charges

 

[Misty]

Obama sold Obamacare to a bunch of rubes.

* With regard to children in particular, some 70% of uninsured youngsters were eligible for either Medicaid, SCHIP, or both programs, but their parents had never*filled out the necessary paperwork.

* It is not legitimate to argue that such people had no access to health insurance. Indeed, Medicaid and children’s health programs allow patients literally to enroll in the emergency room. [TTM: pp. 37-39, 67, 93-94;* DOHL: Loc. 1514-17, 1526-30;* TAO: Loc. 798-800, 859-861, 865-870]

* (C) About 6 million people—or 13% of the uninsured—were eligible for employer-sponsored insurance but chose not to take advantage of it. [TAO: Loc. 801-802]

* (D) More than 10 million uninsured were not U.S. citizens. According to Census data, these included 5 million recently-arrived legal immigrants, and 5.2 million illegal immigrants. [TTM: p. 36;* TAO: Loc. 802-805]"

Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

 

[dblack]

Health insurance is compensation.

Here's a simple enough solution. Ban employer health plans. Have them ...

Here's an even simpler solution. Mind your own fucking business. Let people buy, or not buy, whatever kind of insurance they can afford. Let employers offer whatever kind of compensation attracts the employees they need.

Here's the problem with that stupidity.

1) the Uninsured drive up my costs as someone who buys insurance.

I've been thinking about this more, and I'm really wondering why you think government has any kind of responsibility to keep prices low on stuff you want to buy?? I happen to think costs on health insurance are going up because it's a really stupid fucking way to finance our health care expenses. And the best way for us to get that through our heads was to face the inflationary spiral that our childish expectations create. And, prior the the ACA shenanigans, that was happening in spades. More and more people were getting off the over-insured bandwagon, preferring smarter, cheaper catastrophic plans and HSAs to the usual habit of funneling all our health care spending through the insurance industry.

That process would have restored sanity to the market, if allowed to progress - but it also would have put damper on insurance industry profits, which is why the finally acquiesced to health "reform". It was the only way to save their failed business model.

 

[JoeB131]

As I said, you're a loon.

The left has no interest in getting people off government assistance. They WANT a permanent dependent class -- so they can make empty promises in exchange for votes.

This is undeniable. Don't bother denying it.

It's kind of hard to have an intelligent conversation with you if you engage in the most base stereotypes.

Oh, but it's okay when you do it? Please.

Here's some facts about the "Welfare State".

? What The Right Doesn?t Want You To Know About Welfare: 9 Myths Exploded

According to statisticbrain.com, the vast majority of TANF recipients, 80.4 percent, receive benefits for five years or less. (The site still refers to the program by the old name of Aid To Families With Dependent Children. AFDC is the program that seems to be most often identified with the term “welfare.” AFDC programs were replaced at the federal level by TANF in 1996, but it is still common to hear the program referred to as AFDC.)

But let's pretend you are right? What are you offering in exchange?

Work very hard for an employer who will exploit the fuck out of you and discard you the minute you get sick or have a problem?

Exactly what good has your incessant whining done you? No one has offered you a job with full-coverage insurance with no co-pays. No one has offered you free money in exchange for no work. No one has offered you a corner office and power once your glorious Worker's Revolution (that you're too lazy and cowardly to initiate or participate in) happens.

It's past time for you to grow the hell up, Iosef. Life isn't fair, and whoever told you it is lied to you. People with far greater personal tragedies than yours have risen above them and thrived and succeeded.

The Man isn't keeping you down. YOU are.

Ah, so you couldn't really refute the fact that what you think of "Them Welfare People" isn't born out by, you know, facts... So let's just make broad generalizations about Joe because, fuck, he's actually had to work in the private sector instead of sucking off the government teet like you've done all your life.

Kind of like them welfare people you imagine exist.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I've been thinking about this more, and I'm really wondering why you think government has any kind of responsibility to keep prices low on stuff you want to buy?? I happen to think costs on health insurance are going up because it's a really stupid fucking way to finance our health care expenses. And the best way for us to get that through our heads was to face the inflationary spiral that our childish expectations create. And, prior the the ACA shenanigans, that was happening in spades. More and more people were getting off the over-insured bandwagon, preferring smarter, cheaper catastrophic plans and HSAs to the usual habit of funneling all our health care spending through the insurance industry.

That process would have restored sanity to the market, if allowed to progress - but it also would have put damper on insurance industry profits, which is why the finally acquiesced to health "reform". It was the only way to save their failed business model.

Well, no, not really.

COMPANIES were going for the shittier and shittier plans. Before ACA, I could always count on that once a year meeting where we found out that our Insurance is going to suck a little more and cost a little more than it did last year. Oddly, after ObamaCare, we stopped having those meetings. Imagine that.

One more fucking time. Single payer makes things cheaper. The Single Payer countries spend 8-11% of GDP on health care, compared to the 17% we spend.

The government decides what a treatment costs, and that's what we are going to pay for it.

And the typical Repsonse. "Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

Make sure you work all those words in because that shit never gets old.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, and like most libertarians, you have the civil awareness of a child-like retard.

The rich love suckers like you.

Like most Communists, you have the civil awareness of a child-like retard.

Totalitarians love suckers like you.

Just because you want the freedom to be exploited by rich people, the rest of us are, "meh, not so much".

 

[dblack]

[

I've been thinking about this more, and I'm really wondering why you think government has any kind of responsibility to keep prices low on stuff you want to buy?? I happen to think costs on health insurance are going up because it's a really stupid fucking way to finance our health care expenses. And the best way for us to get that through our heads was to face the inflationary spiral that our childish expectations create. And, prior the the ACA shenanigans, that was happening in spades. More and more people were getting off the over-insured bandwagon, preferring smarter, cheaper catastrophic plans and HSAs to the usual habit of funneling all our health care spending through the insurance industry.

That process would have restored sanity to the market, if allowed to progress - but it also would have put damper on insurance industry profits, which is why the finally acquiesced to health "reform". It was the only way to save their failed business model.

Well, no, not really.

COMPANIES were going for the shittier and shittier plans. Before ACA, I could always count on that once a year meeting where we found out that our Insurance is going to suck a little more and cost a little more than it did last year. Oddly, after ObamaCare, we stopped having those meetings. Imagine that.

One more fucking time. Single payer makes things cheaper. The Single Payer countries spend 8-11% of GDP on health care, compared to the 17% we spend.

All kinds of things would be cheaper if we forced everyone to conform. You really don't get why that's wrong, do you?

 

[JoeB131]

[

All kinds of things would be cheaper if we forced everyone to conform. You really don't get why that's wrong, do you?

Nope, I don't think it's right to get rich on other people's pain and suffering.

It strikes me that if government control means less spending, everyone is covered, no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, people live longer and less babies die, this is a good thing making people conform.

Oh...wait for it. Wait for it.

"Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

 

[dblack]

[

All kinds of things would be cheaper if we forced everyone to conform. You really don't get why that's wrong, do you?

Nope, I don't think it's right to get rich on other people's pain and suffering.

It strikes me that if government control means less spending, everyone is covered, no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, people live longer and less babies die, this is a good thing making people conform.

Oh...wait for it. Wait for it.

"Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

Exactly. Freedom is important to me. Just as, apparently, authoritarian rule is to you. At least you 'own' it.

 

[JoeB131]

[

All kinds of things would be cheaper if we forced everyone to conform. You really don't get why that's wrong, do you?

Nope, I don't think it's right to get rich on other people's pain and suffering.

It strikes me that if government control means less spending, everyone is covered, no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, people live longer and less babies die, this is a good thing making people conform.

Oh...wait for it. Wait for it.

"Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

Exactly. Freedom is important to me. Just as, apparently, authoritarian rule is to you. At least you 'own' it.

You know what is important to me- getting the job fucking done.

"Freedom" ain't getting the job done.

Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.
Lowest life expectancy in the industrialized world.
Highest per-capita spend in the world.
62% of bankruptcies are linked to medical crisis.
1 out of 4 Americans with no insurance or inadequate insurance.

 

[dblack]

Nope, I don't think it's right to get rich on other people's pain and suffering.

It strikes me that if government control means less spending, everyone is covered, no one goes bankrupt because they got sick, people live longer and less babies die, this is a good thing making people conform.

Oh...wait for it. Wait for it.

"Sputter.. sputter.. liberty, founding fathers, socialism is bad, and Freedom".

Exactly. Freedom is important to me. Just as, apparently, authoritarian rule is to you. At least you 'own' it.

You know what is important to me- getting the job fucking done.

"Freedom" ain't getting the job done.

Yep. And as I said, I'm happy to see you taking a stand. It's important for people to see how these choices shake out.

 

[JoeB131]

Exactly. Freedom is important to me. Just as, apparently, authoritarian rule is to you. At least you 'own' it.

You know what is important to me- getting the job fucking done.

"Freedom" ain't getting the job done.

Yep. And as I said, I'm happy to see you taking a stand. It's important for people to see how these choices shake out.

Yes, we might actually be like GASP- the Europeans.

Who are probably just as free as we are and they don't have babies dying of treatable diseases.

 

[dblack]

You know what is important to me- getting the job fucking done.

"Freedom" ain't getting the job done.

Yep. And as I said, I'm happy to see you taking a stand. It's important for people to see how these choices shake out.

Yes, we might actually be like GASP- the Europeans.

Who are probably just as free as we are and they don't have babies dying of treatable diseases.

Oh, I suspect we'll go "all in" before it's all over. The bitter hatred of freedom you've been expressing here is endemic to the statist mindset, especially in the US. And we never do anything half-assed.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep. And as I said, I'm happy to see you taking a stand. It's important for people to see how these choices shake out.

Yes, we might actually be like GASP- the Europeans.

Who are probably just as free as we are and they don't have babies dying of treatable diseases.

Oh, I suspect we'll go "all in" before it's all over. The bitter hatred of freedom you've been expressing here is endemic to the statist mindset, especially in the US. And we never do anything half-assed.

Yawn, guy, Freedom is your whining thing.

I don't feel any less free because the government I can vote out is paying for my health care than if an insurance company I can't do a thing about (short of quitting my job) is doing it.

Frankly, no other country in the world has this insane system of the government paying for half the health care while big companies become obscenely rich administering health care (badly) for the other half.

The only reason why more people aren't outraged is that the INsurance companies won't touch the elderly or the disabled. they'll totally let the government deal with those people.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, DBlack, I just went over to my sink and got some Government Water!

Damned government, spending money to make the water fit to drink and providing it safely and securely to all citizens.

Don't they respect our FREEDOM?

 

[dblack]

Yes, we might actually be like GASP- the Europeans.

Who are probably just as free as we are and they don't have babies dying of treatable diseases.

Oh, I suspect we'll go "all in" before it's all over. The bitter hatred of freedom you've been expressing here is endemic to the statist mindset, especially in the US. And we never do anything half-assed.

Yawn, guy, Freedom is your whining thing.

I don't feel any less free because the government I can vote out is paying for my health care than if an insurance company I can't do a thing about (short of quitting my job) is doing it.

Frankly, no other country in the world has this insane system of the government paying for half the health care while big companies become obscenely rich administering health care (badly) for the other half.

The only reason why more people aren't outraged is that the INsurance companies won't touch the elderly or the disabled. they'll totally let the government deal with those people.

Whatever. I just want fools like you to have something to look back on - some sort of demarcation of their mistake. When the shit hits the fan and fascism takes hold, you'll know what part you played.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, I suspect we'll go "all in" before it's all over. The bitter hatred of freedom you've been expressing here is endemic to the statist mindset, especially in the US. And we never do anything half-assed.

Yawn, guy, Freedom is your whining thing.

I don't feel any less free because the government I can vote out is paying for my health care than if an insurance company I can't do a thing about (short of quitting my job) is doing it.

Frankly, no other country in the world has this insane system of the government paying for half the health care while big companies become obscenely rich administering health care (badly) for the other half.

The only reason why more people aren't outraged is that the INsurance companies won't touch the elderly or the disabled. they'll totally let the government deal with those people.

Whatever. I just want fools like you to have something to look back on - some sort of demarcation of their mistake. When the shit hits the fan and fascism takes hold, you'll know what part you played.

Yawn, guy.

Frankly, I'll be happy to live in a country where every citizen is promised health care as a right.

The mistake was not fixing this system years ago.

 

[Meister]

Yawn, guy, Freedom is your whining thing.

I don't feel any less free because the government I can vote out is paying for my health care than if an insurance company I can't do a thing about (short of quitting my job) is doing it.

Frankly, no other country in the world has this insane system of the government paying for half the health care while big companies become obscenely rich administering health care (badly) for the other half.

The only reason why more people aren't outraged is that the INsurance companies won't touch the elderly or the disabled. they'll totally let the government deal with those people.

Whatever. I just want fools like you to have something to look back on - some sort of demarcation of their mistake. When the shit hits the fan and fascism takes hold, you'll know what part you played.

Yawn, guy.

Frankly, I'll be happy to live in a country where every citizen is promised health care as a right.

The mistake was not fixing this system years ago.

Good, I'll buy you a ticket to Cuba.