Dem Booed Over Birth Control at Town Hall

[Immanuel]

Forcing those who don't want your products to purchase them is tyranny. Totally.

I know you are in the business in some way. I have often wanted to ask you, what you stand to gain from ACA. Might you be willing to disclose the fact that you will profit from it? Not even how much.

Immie

Who is forcing people to buy birth control?

The priests don't want birth control? They don't have to get birth control.

It's not like they need it anyway, considering the only people they have sex with are pre-adolescent and male.

It isnt a question of forcing purchase, it is a question of forcing others to pay for it.

Bingo, but somehow that fact escapes those who believe they have the right to force others to pay for things.

Immie

 

[Vast LWC]

It is a failed argument to call something birth control, when it takes place after the egg and sperm have united.

Why would that be?

Are you now claiming that not only does life begins at conception, but birth occurs at conception???

Now, I'm no doctor, but I'm thinking you really need to brush up on your biology there.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Our country is facing serious issues
and the Left wants to talk about condoms

Is the Left obsessed with sex or is it they know they can not run on Papa Obama's economic failures?

tough call

 

[Vast LWC]

You know something, the church and its affiliated business may very well be willing to pay additional NOT to have that "benefit" included because they are that concerned about it. They would have that right to do so if the left were not so insistant that they know what is best for everyone else.

Immie

And that would be an example of the church specifically denying it's employees something that would otherwise be available to them.

Meaning, again, that the church is the one denying people rights, not the government.

 

[Immanuel]

Of course you don't think it is tyranny. You think forcing people to buy health insurance whether they can afford it or not or want it or not, is a gift from the Prophet Obama himself as well as forcing business who are on the verge of bankruptcy now to pay for it for their employees.

Immie

Immie, you can keep on repeating this all you want, it doesn't make it any more true.

Insurers met with the administration, and agreed to provide the coverage.

Obama didn't force them to do anything.

You are 100% correct. Obama and the insurance companies met behind closed doors and came to a sweetheart deal sticking religious institutions with the bill. Insurers must feel damned pleased with themselves getting a bigger piece of the pie.

By George! I think you've got it.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They are happy to pay for it? Want to bet?

Yes. Yes I would.

If you can find an example of some mouthpiece for one of the companies saying otherwise, then it is just someone trying to smooth things over with church officials.

No corporation is going to not provide a service that will cut costs. To do so would be a betrayal of the shareholders.

You think that because you have not seen anyone complaining about it means they are happy? Does that mean everyone in North Korea was devastated when Kim Jong Il died because you didn't see anyone from North Korea jumping for joy?

 

[Vast LWC]

That is right. As far as the left is concerned everyone should give up their personal liberties and let the left decide what is best for us all.

Immie

What personal liberties would those be?

The right to deny people access to contraception?

That is why you are arguing:

That the church should have the right to deny people free access to contraception, that they would otherwise have access to.

You can keep trying to re-frame the argument all you want, but that is what you are supporting.

 

[Immanuel]

You know something, the church and its affiliated business may very well be willing to pay additional NOT to have that "benefit" included because they are that concerned about it. They would have that right to do so if the left were not so insistant that they know what is best for everyone else.

Immie

And that would be an example of the church specifically denying it's employees something that would otherwise be available to them.

Meaning, again, that the church is the one denying people rights, not the government.

What kind of hogwash is that? Where is the church saying their employees can't go buy contraceptives on their own? Where the hell do people like you get off telling other people what they have to pay for?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

That is right. As far as the left is concerned everyone should give up their personal liberties and let the left decide what is best for us all.

Immie

What personal liberties would those be?

The right to deny people access to contraception?

That is why you are arguing:

That the church should have the right to deny people free access to contraception, that they would otherwise have access to.

You can keep trying to re-frame the argument all you want, but that is what you are supporting.

I'm sorry, you are not stupid.

You have read the answer to that multiple times. I'm not going to play your game.

You're the one reframing the argument, not me.

Immie

 

[Vast LWC]

If you are too stupid to realize that fact and can't go out and purchase birth control it really isn't anyone's fault but you. Don't look to some religions as your bank to pay for it. They have legitimate issues with it.

This isn't going away. When the main campaigning begins Obama is going to be running for cover.

This post doesn't make any sense at all.

Fact: Birth Control makes the cost of insuring a patient lower, not higher.

Fact: Insurance companies agreed to provide birth control to employees of religious institutions at NO ADDITIONAL COST TO THE THE INSTITUTIONS.

Therefore, the religions aren't a "bank" paying for anyone's birth control.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are attempting to force employers to purchase products they don't want. I would say that constitutes tyranny.

Is the concept of a benefit mandate for a health insurance product new for you? Is that the problem we're running into here?

No, the problem is that the government mandates any benefit coverage for insurance. Tell me something, why should the 99% of working Americans have to foot the bill for the 1% of workers who happen to be drug addicts? Do you also support no one who makes over $500,000 a year not paying any taxes at all so that the 99% can support the 1% across the board?

Newsflash, just because mandates exist does not mean that they should.

 

[Neotrotsky]

So how many unintended pregnancies will be prevented?
How have these unintended pregnancies added to the cost function
of insurance companies?

 

[Full-Auto]

Our country is facing serious issues
and the Left wants to talk about condoms

Is the Left obsessed with sex or is it they know they can not run on Papa Obama's economic failures?

tough call

LOL I did finally find one thing Democrats will not tax.

Porn...

After a democrat suggested it here, the out cry was tremendous.

A porn tax would ruin their sex lives

 

[Vast LWC]

So how many unintended pregnancies will be prevented?
How have these unintended pregnancies added to the cost function
of insurance companies?

There are no terms like "unintended pregnancies" involved in the figuring.

Insurance companies simply consider how much the average patient costs to insure with birth control and without birth control.

They make no moral judgement, their only motivation is the bottom line.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I see...no figures
Blowing it out of your arse, again?

 

[Vast LWC]

No kidding, it is not like anyone is actually prevented from purchasing contraceptive devices on their own.

You know, come to think of it, the Prophet been our President when I was a teenagers, I might have lost my virginity earlier than I did.

Immie

It's easy to make a comparison.

They simply need to compare patients who don't take contraception to patients who do.

Insurance is really a simple business when it comes down to it.

That's why people under 25 pay more than people over 25 for car insurance. The insurers don't care about the individual driving skill when making that particular differentiation.

 

[Vast LWC]

It is your story and you can tell it any way you want


The rest will live in the real world
He stepped into it, big time

It's not my "story". The questions are written there in black and white.

You can read them for yourself.

 

[Neotrotsky]

You know something, the church and its affiliated business may very well be willing to pay additional NOT to have that "benefit" included because they are that concerned about it. They would have that right to do so if the left were not so insistant that they know what is best for everyone else.

Immie

And that would be an example of the church specifically denying it's employees something that would otherwise be available to them.

Meaning, again, that the church is the one denying people rights, not the government.

We know the constitution is of little use to the left and more
of a nuisance to their Utopian socialist dreams

Birth control is not a right
The First Amendment is clearly defined in the Constitution
So the gov't overstepping this one, is the real factor here

Granted the Left wants to make it about condoms
but real issues are at stake here

Really, Papa Obama failing at trying to create a "wedge issue" and distract the masses
from his economic failures only highlights his faults and gives the right even more
help

He should really fire whoever advised him on this one

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So how many unintended pregnancies will be prevented?
How have these unintended pregnancies added to the cost function
of insurance companies?

There are no terms like "unintended pregnancies" involved in the figuring.

Insurance companies simply consider how much the average patient costs to insure with birth control and without birth control.

They make no moral judgement, their only motivation is the bottom line.

Wow, did you get that wrong. Are you really that stupid, or do you have to fake it?

Yet in a survey of 15 large health plans this week, Reuters found that "40 percent of the participants said they expect the requirement will increase costs through higher pharmacy expenses" within a year or two.
Another "20 percent said costs would even out because they already budget for contraception in the premium, 6.7 percent said it would drive up pharmacy costs but decrease medical costs, while 33.3 percent weren't sure," Reuters found. "None said it would lead to net savings."
It's not clear how those costs would be passed on. The regulation bars the health insurance plans from raising the religiously-affiliated employers' premiums, so it's possible workers at companies that directly offer contraceptive coverage would get stuck with higher premiums to make up the lost revenue.

Insurance industry could take hit from birth control mandate - The Hill's Healthwatch

 

[Vast LWC]

It has jack shit to do with my views. He is violating the First Amendment. Funny how you Obamabots are the first ones to scream separation of church and state when someone wants to give a prayer at graduation or put a nativity scene at the city hall, but when the opposite occurs and the government attempts to inject itself in the church you jump around like a bunch of rah rah cheerleaders.

You're all fucking hypocrites and you don't give a damn about people's freedom.

He didn't "violate" anyone's constitutional rights.

The Church is free to encourage it's congregation not to use contraception all they want.

And the congregation is free to listen all they want.

The Church is the body that is attempting to stop people from doing what they would like to do here, not the government.

If Catholics are so fired-up about this, all they have to do is NOT USE CONTRACEPTION.