Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

[JakeStarkey]

Obama has had harder sledding than Reagan because has inherited a far worse situation than did RR.

what are you smoking?

Reagan had to deal with a 17% fed funds rate, which Volcker implemented to wipe out Carter's inflation, he was pulling money out of the economy like there was no tomorrow, meanwhile Obama's had a 0.25 fed funds rate - Bernanke's been minting money by the truckloads

See above. Stay in context.

 

[code1211]

Trickle down economics works for the wealthy, Oreo. Please explain to me where the purchasing power of the middle and working classes have gone during the last thirty years. Obama has had harder sledding than Reagan because has inherited a far worse situation than did RR.

I don't understand how this is worse than Regan had. Where is the double digit inflation and the 18% home loans? Or even the lines at the gas stations? Or is all that yet to come, again?

First, answer what happened to the purchasing power of the middle and working classes in the last thirty years. Let's stay in focus.

Second, go back and see what Reagan happened and where his administration was in his full third year. Reagan did not have two wars to fight or the worst recession since the 1930s to have to tackle.

I don't know if you are old enough to have lived through Carter or are simply reading about it. The decade that led to Carter was dismal and Carter managed to make it worse. When Carter took office, the Misery index, the combined total of the unemployment percentage and the inflation rate was 13.55.

In four years of Carter which produced a misery index increase in each and every year, the misery index rose to 20.76. Our prestige abroad was in the toilet. People were saying that the best years of America had passed and we were looking forward to passing the torch to Japan.

Reagan was elected and the misery index dropped in each of his first six years to a low of 8.91. It rose for a blip at the end of the Reagan years and into the Bush 41 first two years, then started dropping again and bottomed in the Clinton years but really has stayed quite low through 2007.

Someone on this board said last summer that the country divides into two groups: Those who recall what the Carter years felt like and those who were about to find out.

I'm here to tell you, it feels exactly the same. The only difference is that this time we are getting ready to pass the torch to China instead of Japan.

The Return of the Misery Index - Capital Commerce (usnews.com)

 

[JakeStarkey]

[<snipped> everything out of context and out of focus in relation to my question<snipped>]

First, answer what happened to the purchasing power of the middle and working classes in the last thirty years. Let's stay in focus.

Second, go back and see what Reagan happened and where his administration was in his full third year. Reagan did not have two wars to fight or the worst recession since the 1930s to have to tackle.

You have to answer the questions before you can add more and be taken seriously.

 

[DiveCon]

[<snipped> everything out of context and out of focus in relation to my question<snipped>]

First, answer what happened to the purchasing power of the middle and working classes in the last thirty years. Let's stay in focus.

Second, go back and see what Reagan happened and where his administration was in his full third year. Reagan did not have two wars to fight or the worst recession since the 1930s to have to tackle.

You have to answer the questions before you can add more and be taken seriously.

as always, you are fucking wrong and will never get it

 

[SwingVoter]

See above. Stay in context.

why? because you don't understand how monetary policy works?

Reagan was handed a shit sandwich from Carter, far worse than what Obama faced because of high inflation and incompetence in Iran/Iraq and Afghanistan we've never fully recovered from. I'll give Clinton credit for his record, but there was a good reason why Carter won just 6 states in his 1980 re-election bid.

Obama had a TARP fund already in place and just had to come in and not screw it up too badly. If Bernanke was raising rates to 17% now, Obama wouldn't have a clue what to do.

 

[Annie]

See above. Stay in context.

why? because you don't understand how monetary policy works?

Reagan was handed a shit sandwich from Carter, far worse than what Obama faced because of high inflation and incompetence in Iran/Iraq and Afghanistan we've never fully recovered from. I'll give Clinton credit for his record, but there was a good reason why Carter won just 6 states in his 1980 re-election bid.

Obama had a TARP fund already in place and just had to come in and not screw it up too badly. If Bernanke was raising rates to 17% now, Obama wouldn't have a clue what to do.

Agreed. The worst thing GW did was hand Obama all, without taking the fallout. Yowzer, one might think there's really only 1 party in US? That in power.

 

[SwingVoter]

Those who recall what the Carter years felt like and those who were about to find out.

Obama's been disappointing, but nowhere near as bad as Carter. The Ahmadenijad appeasement attempt showed flashes of Jimmy, but even with all the issues the country has now, 2010 feels a lot better than 1980.

 

[Foxfyre]

Those who recall what the Carter years felt like and those who were about to find out.

Obama's been disappointing, but nowhere near as bad as Carter. The Ahmadenijad appeasement attempt showed flashes of Jimmy, but even with all the issues the country has now, 2010 feels a lot better than 1980.

I think that depends on whether you have a job now or whether you were one holding on by the proverbial fingernails at the end of the Carter administration. In 1980, millions of us were tired of being broke, tired of an intolerable economy, tired of the gas lines, tired of being the world's laughing stock and having the Iranian clerics thumbing their noses and sneering at us. That's why we responded so favorably to Reagan's message of America being a great country and Americans being a great people who could and would accomplish anything if they were allowed to do so. Ronald Reagan apologizing to anybody for America being America was not part of the equation and he made us proud again for being the really good people that we are.

Now millions of us are tired of an intolerable economy, tired of wondering when the next shoe will drop, tired of being the world's punching bag, and tired of a President who apologizes to everybody for America being America, and tired of fear that we have a Congress and Presidential administration who will put us at risk or sell us out in a heartbeat in the name of political correctness or fawning to the global community or implementing the great gods of Marxist tinged socialist liberalism.

 

[Annie]

Those who recall what the Carter years felt like and those who were about to find out.

Obama's been disappointing, but nowhere near as bad as Carter. The Ahmadenijad appeasement attempt showed flashes of Jimmy, but even with all the issues the country has now, 2010 feels a lot better than 1980.

Huh? He's worse than Carter and worse the Clinton and Bush's combined.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Can't answer why the middle and working classes are poorer today than in 1980, huh?

The economists and historians would knock you for a loop for your absolute nonsense. Reagan had a pushover compared to Obama. Okay, once again, answer the questions before we go any further.

Typical wingnut nonsense. Can't answer the question so you thrown out nonsense.

No wonder we got our heads handed to us in 2008.

 

[SwingVoter]

Typical wingnut nonsense.

You talking about yourself?

You come here with no data, just some silly nonsensical rant. If you want to engage in a discussion that includes facts and figures, happy to do that. But if you want to just regurgitate the talking points you heard on Rachel Maddow or read on Daily Kos, then you're just screaming into the air like one of those old men who walk around wearing "world is ending" sandwich boards.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A wingnut made the claim about stupid trickle down economics of Reagan was wonderful, and I asked why the middle and working classes have lost purchasing power since then.

Come on, reactionary freaks, prove it wrong. Let you in on a fact: you can't.

 

[SwingVoter]

He's worse than Carter and worse the Clinton and Bush's combined.

Jimmy Carter was the biggest fool to ever sit in the oval office.

Obama at least recognizes the Taliban as an enemy. Carter thought the Cold War should be de-emphasized, and that Brezhnev should be treated like an old friend. We are still paying today for Jimmy letting the Soviets into Afghanistan, and for his complete incompetence with Iraq/Iran.

If Obama gets us to a 20+ misery index, and a major, long-term foreign policy disaster then maybe he will come near the unprecedented level of ineptitude and foolishness demonstrated by Carter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A wingnut made the claim about stupid trickle down economics of Reagan was wonderful, and I asked why the middle and working classes have lost purchasing power since then.

Come on, reactionary freaks, prove it wrong. Let you in on a fact: you can't.

 

[Foxfyre]

Typical wingnut nonsense.

You talking about yourself?

You come here with no data, just some silly nonsensical rant. If you want to engage in a discussion that includes facts and figures, happy to do that. But if you want to just regurgitate the talking points you heard on Rachel Maddow or read on Daily Kos, then you're just screaming into the air like one of those old men who walk around wearing "world is ending" sandwich boards.

I quit paying any attention to Jake's posts when he neg repped me not for insulting anybody, not for using offensive language, not for flaming or even promoting an ideological point of view. I was neg repped for disagreeing with a flawed argument of another member and presenting my linked rebuttal. And I refused to acknowledge Jake hopping around congratulating the other member for demolishing me. So I was judged to be immoral.

Just easier to scroll on past than deal with that kind of 'wing-nutty-ism'. (Is that a word?)

But back to topic. . . . .

I don't think Jimmy Carter was a fool. He was just clueless and inept as President which I think is a great deal of Obama's problem. I do think Carter's view of governance, however, is far less dangerous than Obama's view and that of the truly radical people with whom he has surrounded himself.

 

[DiveCon]

Typical wingnut nonsense.

You talking about yourself?

You come here with no data, just some silly nonsensical rant. If you want to engage in a discussion that includes facts and figures, happy to do that. But if you want to just regurgitate the talking points you heard on Rachel Maddow or read on Daily Kos, then you're just screaming into the air like one of those old men who walk around wearing "world is ending" sandwich boards.

I quit paying any attention to Jake's posts when he neg repped me not for insulting anybody, not for using offensive language, not for flaming or even promoting an ideological point of view. I was neg repped for disagreeing with a flawed argument of another member and presenting my linked rebuttal. And I refused to acknowledge Jake hopping around congratulating the other member for demolishing me. So I was judged to be immoral.

Just easier to scroll on past than deal with that kind of 'wing-nutty-ism'. (Is that a word?)

But back to topic. . . . .

I don't think Jimmy Carter was a fool. He was just clueless and inept as President which I think is a great deal of Obama's problem. I do think Carter's view of governance, however, is far less dangerous than Obama's view and that of the truly radical people with whom he has surrounded himself.

jake is a fucking MORON

 

[DiveCon]

A wingnut made the claim about stupid trickle down economics of Reagan was wonderful, and I asked why the middle and working classes have lost purchasing power since then.

Come on, reactionary freaks, prove it wrong. Let you in on a fact: you can't.

its already been done, moron
you are just too fucking STUPID to get it

 

[The Rabbi]

Typical wingnut nonsense.

You talking about yourself?

You come here with no data, just some silly nonsensical rant. If you want to engage in a discussion that includes facts and figures, happy to do that. But if you want to just regurgitate the talking points you heard on Rachel Maddow or read on Daily Kos, then you're just screaming into the air like one of those old men who walk around wearing "world is ending" sandwich boards.

That's because he's "Jake, King of the Unsubstantiated Statement."

 

[The Rabbi]

He's worse than Carter and worse the Clinton and Bush's combined.

Jimmy Carter was the biggest fool to ever sit in the oval office.

Obama at least recognizes the Taliban as an enemy. Carter thought the Cold War should be de-emphasized, and that Brezhnev should be treated like an old friend. We are still paying today for Jimmy letting the Soviets into Afghanistan, and for his complete incompetence with Iraq/Iran.

If Obama gets us to a 20+ misery index, and a major, long-term foreign policy disaster then maybe he will come near the unprecedented level of ineptitude and foolishness demonstrated by Carter.

It's hard to compare the two.
Carter inherited a bad economic situation from Nixon and Ford. And made it worse. It was long standing and difficult to deal with and it took a Reagan to do so.
Obama inherited a relatively good situation, years of low inflation and GDP growth. The immediate economic downturn has been just that, a turn in the business cycle. But he is proceeding to make it much worse
Carter inherited a cold war and was totally inept at dealing with it.
Obama has inherited the war on terror and is proving himself totally inept to deal with it.
So I would say given what each one was handed, they are both aweful. But I dont recall Carter blaming his predecessors constantly. Carter also had 4 years to make mistakes and Obama still ahs 3 to go.

 

[code1211]

He's worse than Carter and worse the Clinton and Bush's combined.

Jimmy Carter was the biggest fool to ever sit in the oval office.

Obama at least recognizes the Taliban as an enemy. Carter thought the Cold War should be de-emphasized, and that Brezhnev should be treated like an old friend. We are still paying today for Jimmy letting the Soviets into Afghanistan, and for his complete incompetence with Iraq/Iran.

If Obama gets us to a 20+ misery index, and a major, long-term foreign policy disaster then maybe he will come near the unprecedented level of ineptitude and foolishness demonstrated by Carter.

It's hard to compare the two.
Carter inherited a bad economic situation from Nixon and Ford. And made it worse. It was long standing and difficult to deal with and it took a Reagan to do so.
Obama inherited a relatively good situation, years of low inflation and GDP growth. The immediate economic downturn has been just that, a turn in the business cycle. But he is proceeding to make it much worse
Carter inherited a cold war and was totally inept at dealing with it.
Obama has inherited the war on terror and is proving himself totally inept to deal with it.
So I would say given what each one was handed, they are both aweful. But I dont recall Carter blaming his predecessors constantly. Carter also had 4 years to make mistakes and Obama still ahs 3 to go.

Are you TRYING to scare us?