Creeping paranoia

[Nik]

FRC Blog » Change Watch Backgrounder: Cass Sunstein

Further links to a paper written by Professor Sunstien.

Still waiting for the text about abortion.

 

[Nik]

Then keep your private insurance. Nobody is forcing anyone to switch off of them. By the way, what people don't realize is that their healthcare isn't free when its paid by your employer. Even though theres no direct deduction (or a small one), it still comes directly out of wages.

Ok then.... here is what you need to realize.... and I hope you never will..... the deduction that stems from nationalized health care in our governmental establishment, that already taxes around 15 to 24 percent on the majority in income taxes will have to increase the burden by 1half time to sustain the program. FACT. Do the numbers yourself. You will be forced to partake in an overtaxed (forgive the pun) system based on affordability. Oh my GAWD, trust that I know the alternative in government run health care vs. civilian. I've been forced into the military healthcare system as a civillian.

Oh, lordy, lordy lordy. Our taxes might go up! How could our society ever sustain ourselves if taxes went up?

Actually, our tax burden would still be significantly lower than it has been for most of the last century. And yes, I am willing to pay taxes so that people don't die.

Oh. and FACT. A government run system would be substantially cheaper than a private system. So our increase in wages would more than make up for increased taxes.

 

[AllieBaba]

"In a world with Medicare and Medicaid, moreover, the illness of any one of us is a bill for many or even most of us. In such a world, one person's decision to run a risk imposes costs on many other people."
Valuing Life

And? This is, quite simply, a fact about the world. Its not opinion, its fact. Perhaps a fact that you'd rather not be true, but that doesn't really mean that much.

"With respect to children, Minow and LaMay claim that there are serious problems calling for creative governmental response. In their view, children do not have enough good programming. "

"Surely government can take steps to make it easier for parents to do what they ought to do, and that is the purpose of the "circuitry" requirement. To the extent that Minow and LaMay are trying moral suasion, and speaking of modest regulation, their argument is not weakened by the possibility of parental control."
Selling Children

This guy never shuts up.

And? He is a proponent of encouraging people to act in positive ways. Something the US government has done for generations. Not via overt control, but through subtle regulations. Or would you rather direct, heavy handedness, Allie?

And yes, Sunstein is rather prolific. Its really quite an insult to tell someone they are prolific, good on you there.

He believes in "nudging" people for their own good. He believes in government "programming" of children, and governmental control of parenting.

 

[Nik]

"In a world with Medicare and Medicaid, moreover, the illness of any one of us is a bill for many or even most of us. In such a world, one person's decision to run a risk imposes costs on many other people."
Valuing Life

And? This is, quite simply, a fact about the world. Its not opinion, its fact. Perhaps a fact that you'd rather not be true, but that doesn't really mean that much.

"With respect to children, Minow and LaMay claim that there are serious problems calling for creative governmental response. In their view, children do not have enough good programming. "

"Surely government can take steps to make it easier for parents to do what they ought to do, and that is the purpose of the "circuitry" requirement. To the extent that Minow and LaMay are trying moral suasion, and speaking of modest regulation, their argument is not weakened by the possibility of parental control."
Selling Children

This guy never shuts up.

And? He is a proponent of encouraging people to act in positive ways. Something the US government has done for generations. Not via overt control, but through subtle regulations. Or would you rather direct, heavy handedness, Allie?

And yes, Sunstein is rather prolific. Its really quite an insult to tell someone they are prolific, good on you there.

He believes in "nudging" people for their own good. He believes in government "programming" of children, and governmental control of parenting.

And what is wrong with nudging people for their own good?

Government "programming"? Not exactly. He believes that people should be encouraged, by the government, to teach their kids good things. Which is really quite horrendous, actually. Encouraging people to teach their kids positive things???? How terrible. And no, he doesn't advocate government "control" of parenting. Thats an outright lie.

How are you coming with finding the evidence that the Netherlands currently allows nonconsensual euthanasia, Allie? You wouldn't just ignore my request for proof of your claim, now would you?

 

[AllieBaba]

"AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch doctors have ended the lives of babies born with disabilities but have not been charged despite euthanasia being illegal for children, a study said on Saturday.

The study, published in the latest edition of the Dutch Journal of Medicine, found doctors had reported 22 cases between 1997 and 2004 of euthanasia of babies with spina bifida, a disabling birth defect affecting the spinal column.

Dutch prosecutors dismissed all cases after judicial reviews, the journal said in a summary on its Web Site. Dutch media said the study showed prosecutors had decided against charging doctors as long as four unofficial rules were met.

The criteria for baby euthanasia were that the newborn had no chance of survival and was suffering unbearably, the doctor had to consult at least one other, the parents had to agree and the life must be ended in the correct medical way."

Why guidelines for euthanasia will never work

 

[Avatar4321]

The forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The Republicans and the "Blue Dog" Democrats are their lap dogs.

What Obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

Everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

pretty basic??? the bill is over 1000 pages long and its pretty basic? What kind of insane world do you live on???

 

[elvis]

The forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The Republicans and the "Blue Dog" Democrats are their lap dogs.

What Obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

Everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

pretty basic??? the bill is over 1000 pages long and its pretty basic? What kind of insane world do you live on???

You'll have to forgive him. He is the board's mental midget.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hmmm...encouraging abortion and euthanasia.

Sounds like killing to me.

Nobody is encouraging either.

No of course not. That's not why the governments planning to force elderly people to attend death classes... because they want to encourage them to keep living. That's why the government opposes any law even opposing extreme abortion, because no one is encouraging it.

 

[elvis]

Hmmm...encouraging abortion and euthanasia.

Sounds like killing to me.

Nobody is encouraging either.

No of course not. That's not why the governments planning to force elderly people to attend death classes... because they want to encourage them to keep living. That's why the government opposes any law even opposing extreme abortion, because no one is encouraging it.

Being that there was a supreme court ruling on late-term abortions last year, how would they ever be allowed?

 

[Avatar4321]

If you think there is nothing wrong with euthanasia or abortion your moral compass points south.

Tell me there grump do you agree with Cass Sunstein - Obama's regulations czar that we chould be able to abort children until they are two years old?

I think people could make arguments for both. I wouldnt be persuaded by either. But what annoys me is the lie that they arent advocating this when its clearly written out. If you are going to take a position be honest about it.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Protester on Fox: Pelosi 'Thugs' Came In 'Middle Of The Night,' Health Care Plan 'Sentences Our Families To Death' | LiveWire

This guy tells fox news that Pelosi's thugs came to him in the night and that he wants his voice heard before Obama puts him down (as in the insane rumor about offing the elderly).

The right has no truth, so they lie.

Should we be surprised?

One person makes a claim which we don't know to be fact, and you use him to paint all supposed right wingers as liars? You don't even know his political compass.

Not hard at all to make a post, when you don't have to worry about truth.

 

[Nik]

"AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch doctors have ended the lives of babies born with disabilities but have not been charged despite euthanasia being illegal for children, a study said on Saturday.

The study, published in the latest edition of the Dutch Journal of Medicine, found doctors had reported 22 cases between 1997 and 2004 of euthanasia of babies with spina bifida, a disabling birth defect affecting the spinal column.

Dutch prosecutors dismissed all cases after judicial reviews, the journal said in a summary on its Web Site. Dutch media said the study showed prosecutors had decided against charging doctors as long as four unofficial rules were met.

The criteria for baby euthanasia were that the newborn had no chance of survival and was suffering unbearably, the doctor had to consult at least one other, the parents had to agree and the life must be ended in the correct medical way."

Why guidelines for euthanasia will never work

Hmm. Interesting. So when i asked for proof that it was legal, you provided me directly with someone that said it is illegal.

 

[Nik]

The forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The Republicans and the "Blue Dog" Democrats are their lap dogs.

What Obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

Everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

pretty basic??? the bill is over 1000 pages long and its pretty basic? What kind of insane world do you live on???

You are aware, I hope, that what Obama is proposing, and the bill (which bill are you referring too, anyway?) are two very, very different things?

 

[Nik]

Hmmm...encouraging abortion and euthanasia.

Sounds like killing to me.

Nobody is encouraging either.

No of course not. That's not why the governments planning to force elderly people to attend death classes... because they want to encourage them to keep living. That's why the government opposes any law even opposing extreme abortion, because no one is encouraging it.

The government is planning to force elderly people to attend death classes?

Care to cite a link for that?

And please understand the difference between allowing something to be legal, and encouraging it. Adultery is, as it should be, legal, but that doesn't mean the government is encouraging adultery.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, its reserved for kids who are born terminally ill.

Or do you think that perfection means only not being terminally ill?

And how do you define terminally ill? We are all terminally ill. I doubt you can find one person who isnt going to die.

So what gives anyone else the right to determine when we our our children die?

 

[AllieBaba]

Nobody is encouraging either.

No of course not. That's not why the governments planning to force elderly people to attend death classes... because they want to encourage them to keep living. That's why the government opposes any law even opposing extreme abortion, because no one is encouraging it.

Being that there was a supreme court ruling on late-term abortions last year, how would they ever be allowed?

They're allowed now.

 

[Nik]

No, its reserved for kids who are born terminally ill.

Or do you think that perfection means only not being terminally ill?

And how do you define terminally ill? We are all terminally ill. I doubt you can find one person who isnt going to die.

Terminal illness is a medical term popularized in the 20th century to describe an active and malignant disease that cannot be cured or adequately treated and that is reasonably expected to result in the death of the patient. This term is more commonly used for progressive diseases such as cancer or advanced heart disease than for trauma. In popular use, it indicates a disease which will end the life of the sufferer.

A patient who has such an illness may be referred to as a terminal patient or terminally ill. Often, a patient is considered to be terminally ill when the life expectancy is estimated to be six months or less, under the assumption that the disease will run its normal course. The six-month standard is arbitrary,[1] and best available estimates of longevity may be incorrect. Consequently, though a given patient may properly be considered terminal, this is not a guarantee that the patient will die within six months. Similarly, a patient with a slowly progressing disease, such as AIDS, may not be considered terminally ill because the best estimates of longevity were greater than six months. However this does not guarantee that the patient will not die unexpectedly early. In general, physicians slightly overestimate survival so that, for example, a person who is expected to live for about six weeks would likely die around four weeks.[2]

Terminal illness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So no, it is factually incorrect to say we are "all terminally ill".

So what gives anyone else the right to determine when we our our children die?

Actually one of the criteria for non-prosecution in the dutch case was that a parent had to agree with the decision. So nobody else was determining "when we our our children die".

 

[Chris]

Source? It can be found in his write up in wiki. As I've said before google the guy. Sunstein is a guy with a wide variety of opinions and almost everyone will hate at least some of them. he seems to believe most environmental legislation is a waste of time meaning the greenies don't like him. He halso thinks we should let old folks die rather than spend money on them.

Again all of this can be found in his Wiki write up.

Please cite the exact text where it is found.

The words "abort", "abortion", and "children" appear nowhere in his wiki write up. It appears rather clear that you are lying about what his wiki write up contains.

Cass Sunstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lying is what the right does.

They have no more issues.

 

[Chris]

the forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The republicans and the "blue dog" democrats are their lap dogs.

What obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

pretty basic??? The bill is over 1000 pages long and its pretty basic? What kind of insane world do you live on???

Oh my god!!!

It's almost as long as a harry potter novel!!!

Who could possibly ever read that!!!

 

[Chris]

The right's flying monkeys of the blogsphere and the right wing media are making up all kinds of lies about healthcare reform in order to confuse people. It is really sad.

Getting rid of denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions and giving people a public option for healthcare is the right thing to do.

Lying about it is the wrong thing to do.