Congressional Leaders Want Bush to Help Automakers

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Given the fact that we completely screwed over our own auto industry by crafting policies which punished them, while rewarding foreign car makers who imported cars into this nation, I think it's probably time for us to pay back that debt we owe them, don't you think?

When the economic policies allowed (for example) Japan to DUMP 4,000,000 cars into this nation, while Japans tariffs saw to it that at druing the same period, we exported only 4,000 American cars into Japan, I'd say we owe the American Auto industry some help.

Of course that's just me, you know, an economic nationalistm talking.

I'm not as smart as Austrian economists who believe that bankrupting a nation's industrial base is wisest economic policy a nation can persue, or anything like that.

Or perhaps we could stop the regulation that you say hampered them? Which is part of the problem to be sure, the other part of the problem is that foreign auto-makers simply produce a better car. Bailing them out isn't going to make them any more competitive, it's only going to delay the inevitable at the expense of American taxpayers.

Right, Austrian economists want to bankrupt GM, Chrysler, and Ford. You used to argue with logic, rather than twisting meanings and sarcastic comments. The fact is that if there is not enough demand for your product then you are going to go out of business. This is how it works in Capitalism, not everyone can be a winner.

 

[DiveCon]

Or perhaps we could stop the regulation that you say hampered them? Which is part of the problem to be sure, the other part of the problem is that foreign auto-makers simply produce a better car. Bailing them out isn't going to make them any more competitive, it's only going to delay the inevitable at the expense of American taxpayers.

Right, Austrian economists want to bankrupt GM, Chrysler, and Ford. You used to argue with logic, rather than twisting meanings and sarcastic comments. The fact is that if there is not enough demand for your product then you are going to go out of business. This is how it works in Capitalism, not everyone can be a winner.

part of GM and Chryslers problems is they make too make "models" that are basically the same car with different plastic
maybe its time for one of "the big 3" to die

 

[tigerbob]

part of GM and Chryslers problems is they make too make "models" that are basically the same car with different plastic
maybe its time for one of "the big 3" to die

Quite probably.

 

[editec]

Or perhaps we could stop the regulation that you say hampered them?

You mean like honest wages, workers safety and environmental laws?

Which is part of the problem to be sure, the other part of the problem is that foreign auto-makers simply produce a better car.

Well that certain was true twety years ago, I'll admit that.

Bailing them out isn't going to make them any more competitive, it's only going to delay the inevitable at the expense of American taxpayers.

Here's a thought...stop rewarding car importers from nations which dump cars on our market cheaper than the people in their own lands can buy them, and who impose tariffs on import into their nation?

Those tow things, much more than crappy American cars, and more than regulations and even more than unions, is what is wreckign our autho industry, you know.

Right, Austrian economists want to bankrupt GM, Chrysler, and Ford.

Yes, they do.

How else do you explain a consistent adherence to FREE TRADE policies which disadvantaged our own industries?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Sorry guys, I only buy Japanese.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You mean like honest wages, workers safety and environmental laws?



Well that certain was true twety years ago, I'll admit that.



Here's a thought...stop rewarding car importers from nations which dump cars on our market cheaper than the people in their own lands can buy them, and who impose tariffs on import into their nation?

Those tow things, much more than crappy American cars, and more than regulations and even more than unions, is what is wreckign our autho industry, you know.



Yes, they do.

How else do you explain a consistent adherence to FREE TRADE policies which disadvantaged our own industries?

You're going to have to come up with a source for these supposed tariffs on American automobiles in Japan, because I'm coming up with nothing.

 

[DavidS]

I don't disagree with much of what many of you here say, but if one of the Big 3 goes under, so do a lot of other people that aren't directly related to the Big 3.

How many Ford/Lincoln/Mercury/Volvo/Mazda/Land Rover dealerships are there in the country?

Let's use a conservative number: 1000.

All of them, that employ an average of 100 people go under. That's 100,000 jobs, in addition to all of the people who work at the Ford plants, in addition to all of the ad agencies that Ford employs, in addition to all of the independent trucking companies that rely on shipping cars from ford plants to dealerships. And that's just Ford. GM is much bigger than Ford. Chrysler is smaller than both.

Any one of the Big 3 going under could mean the loss of millions of jobs nationally. No President would want to be responsible for that. BUT we can't just keep giving them money blindly and hope one day they'll pay us back.

I hate to say it, but I think the government needs to take over one of the big 3 and nationalize it. Apparently no matter who FORD, GM or Chrysler hire, they can't seem to hire people who know what the hell they're doing. If we put someone in there, who was looking to reduce the size and costs of the company without fear of how the shareholders would react, without a multi-million dollar salary, we would seriously reduce the size of Ford's brand and perhaps make it profitable again.

Ford needs to sell its shares of Mazda, Volvo and Land Rover back to their rightful owners and focus on its core business. It needs to phase out the Mercury brand and just focus on Ford/Lincoln. And it needs to focus on how to build smaller, more cost effecient cars that get 100 mpg using natural gas that are safer than the cars we use today. Once we're done with that, we sell Ford back to its shareholders and hopefully turn a profit.

The same thing needs to be done with GM.

GM needs to focus on its core brands: Chevy/Cadillac/Pontiac and phase out its other brands.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I don't disagree with much of what many of you here say, but if one of the Big 3 goes under, so do a lot of other people that aren't directly related to the Big 3.

How many Ford/Lincoln/Mercury/Volvo/Mazda/Land Rover dealerships are there in the country?

Let's use a conservative number: 1000.

All of them, that employ an average of 100 people go under. That's 100,000 jobs, in addition to all of the people who work at the Ford plants, in addition to all of the ad agencies that Ford employs, in addition to all of the independent trucking companies that rely on shipping cars from ford plants to dealerships. And that's just Ford. GM is much bigger than Ford. Chrysler is smaller than both.

Any one of the Big 3 going under could mean the loss of millions of jobs nationally. No President would want to be responsible for that. BUT we can't just keep giving them money blindly and hope one day they'll pay us back.

I hate to say it, but I think the government needs to take over one of the big 3 and nationalize it. Apparently no matter who FORD, GM or Chrysler hire, they can't seem to hire people who know what the hell they're doing. If we put someone in there, who was looking to reduce the size and costs of the company without fear of how the shareholders would react, without a multi-million dollar salary, we would seriously reduce the size of Ford's brand and perhaps make it profitable again.

Ford needs to sell its shares of Mazda, Volvo and Land Rover back to their rightful owners and focus on its core business. It needs to phase out the Mercury brand and just focus on Ford/Lincoln. And it needs to focus on how to build smaller, more cost effecient cars that get 100 mpg using natural gas that are safer than the cars we use today. Once we're done with that, we sell Ford back to its shareholders and hopefully turn a profit.

The same thing needs to be done with GM.

GM needs to focus on its core brands: Chevy/Cadillac/Pontiac and phase out its other brands.

Using that argument why doesn't the government just take over all industries since you think they could do a much better job of running them?

 

[WillowTree]

Using that argument why doesn't the government just take over all industries since you think they could do a much better job of running them?

the only people in the USA who need to work are the people making over $250,000, so we can tax the crap outta them.. The rest of us can coast.

 

[DavidS]

Using that argument why doesn't the government just take over all industries since you think they could do a much better job of running them?

Because all of the industries aren't as important as the auto industry is.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Because all of the industries aren't as important as the auto industry is.

Thank goodness we've got you here to tell us what industries are important.

 

[Zoom-boing]

If Obama says yes to a handout for the auto industry, do you think they'll put a mandate on it for it's use so the money doesn't go for bonuses and such?

Wallstreet, auto . . . what's next? Everyplace is in bad shape. Is Uncle just suppose to pull money out of the hat forever? Cities will be knocking on the door for their fair share soon . . .

 

[DiveCon]

If Obama says yes to a handout for the auto industry, do you think they'll put a mandate on it for it's use so the money doesn't go for bonuses and such?

Wallstreet, auto . . . what's next? Everyplace is in bad shape. Is Uncle just suppose to pull money out of the hat forever? Cities will be knocking on the door for their fair share soon . . .

what do you mean "soon"

some are already, states too

 

[Isolde]

How come all the companies with heavy dependence on unions..... are all in trouble?

The labor unions have outlived their usefulness. Anyone care to disagree?

 

[DiveCon]

How come all the companies with heavy dependence on unions..... are all in trouble?

The labor unions have outlived their usefulness. Anyone care to disagree?

well AIG doesnt have a union, that i'm aware of


that doesnt excuse the poor way the management is running the company
the blame is wide spread in this issue

 

[elvis]

Pelosi and Reid Urge Aid for U.S. Automakers



By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: November 8, 2008
WASHINGTON — Democratic leaders in Congress urged the Bush administration on Saturday to consider using the $700 billion bailout for the financial system to aid distressed American automakers, in a prelude to what may become urgent negotiations over additional economic stimulus measures.

In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., the Democratic leaders said, “A healthy automobile manufacturing sector is essential to the restoration of financial market stability, the overall health of our economy and the livelihood of the automobile sector’s workforce.” The letter was signed by the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California, and the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada.

But the Democratic leaders also urged Mr. Paulson to include strong taxpayer protections as a condition of any aid to the automakers, mindful of public frustration over the repeated efforts by the government to aid large financial institutions and other corporations while average citizens struggle in the economic downturn.

On Friday, General Motors said that it had been burning through cash at a pace of more than $2 billion a month and that it could run short of money by mid-2009 without federal help.

Bush should leave this decision to Obama. That way when people complain about bailouts, they won't place all the blame on Bush.

 

[Isolde]

well AIG doesnt have a union, that i'm aware of


that doesnt excuse the poor way the management is running the company
the blame is wide spread in this issue

I didn't say all companies who are in trouble.... I said all companies with a heavy dependence on unions are in trouble. Subtle yet important distinction.

 

[eots]

we must nationalize the auto industry...then build a affordable efficient vehicle ...
that with proper documents and state approval you could purchase.. we could call it.....the peoples car

 

[tigerbob]

I didn't say all companies who are in trouble.... I said all companies with a heavy dependence on unions are in trouble. Subtle yet important distinction.

I don't think the unions are to blame in this instance. The UAW could have rolled over and given in to every management demand for the last 5 years and the Big 3 would still not have avoided the crisis they are now in.

Detroit's problem, as I've said before, is threefold.

Poor business model - chasing market share by using spare cash to underwrite low rate leasing and finance purchases.

Poor R&D - lack of focus on developing lean fuel technology, overemphasis on high ticket, low mileage trucks and SUVs.

Poor quality - in a patriotic country like America, when nearly 2 in 3 people think domestics are less reliable than imports you've got a problem.

Now, throw in high gas prices, the credit crunch and increasing unemployment and you've got a king sized Motown headache.

If they had avoided some problems of their own making they might have been able to weather the storm a bit better. But make no mistake, these were white collar failings, not blue collar.

 

[DavidS]

Thank goodness we've got you here to tell us what industries are important.

Hey, smartass, find any other industry that is not only responsible for millions of jobs in this country, but also is responsible for the economies of many medium sized cities. If Ford, GM or Chrysler goes under, so does Detroit. If Detroit goes out, so does Michigan. The ripple effect of the failure of one or more of these auto giants would massive and would send shock-waves around this country. You think 6.5% unemployment is bad? Try 12%. Try 13%. Try DOW 3000. All the banks that loaned the homes for these auto-workers could go under as well because if they don't have a job, how are they going to pay their mortgages? What about a massive healthcare crisis around the country as we now have over a million more people without healthcare because they lost their jobs. You want to sit there in your nice cozy chair while 1 million+ people lose their job and you pay your $10,000 a year in income taxes while the backbone of America caves in.

The economic impact of one of the big 3 collapsing would be massive... far worse than $50 billion of the $750 billion we already have allocated.

But you go ahead and you keep making your snide, ignorant remarks because you think you know better.