Confederate statues and memorials

[Manonthestreet]

Perhaps we’re too accustomed to it to notice the absurdity, but it is unquestionably absurd: Each day, thousands of black, shackled defendants appear before judges in courthouses guarded by memorials to a cause that believed those defendants’ ancestors were little more than livestock. The symbolism is inescapable. If a totalitarian country were to try members of an oppressed minority in a courtroom flanked by monuments to those who did the oppressing, we’d rightly call them show trials. Yet we’ve been doing exactly this in wide swaths of the South for more than a century.

Lame attempt at excusing black crime

 

[Dale Smith]

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

But if the Civil War's biggest reason was slavery? How come Lincoln didn't get the memo?

"I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do lesswhenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views"


What about the states that were allowed to keep their slaves as long as they didn't join the Confederacy? What about the founding fathers that had slaves? Ulysses S Grant had slaves right up until the passage of the 13th amendment (not the ORIGINAL 13th amendment, btw) Do we take down any statutes or memorabilia of them as well? What about the statute of Albert Pike, one of the founders of the KKK, the highest degreed Scottish Rite free-mason (whose book Morals and Dogma is considered a "must" for any high degreed member) whose bust is prominently displayed in Washington, D.C?

I am just playing devil's advocate here. You could tear every fucking monument down starting in 1776 because the majority of our history is a lie. If we were being honest with ourselves, it would be more fitting to replace the "Stars and Stripes" with the Jolly Roger flag. I know a pseudo liberal such as yourself believes that you have this high road to take even though you are pathetically uninformed pretty much about everything, Cocksucker and swallower Joe.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

But if the Civil War's biggest reason was slavery? How come Lincoln didn't get the memo?

"I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do lesswhenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views"


What about the states that were allowed to keep their slaves as long as they didn't join the Confederacy? What about the founding fathers that had slaves? Ulysses S Grant had slaves right up until the passage of the 13th amendment (not the ORIGINAL 13th amendment, btw) Do we take down any statutes or memorabilia of them as well? What about the statute of Albert Pike, one of the founders of the KKK, the highest degreed Scottish Rite free-mason (whose book Morals and Dogma is considered a "must" for any high degreed member) whose bust is prominently displayed in Washington, D.C?

I am just playing devil's advocate here. You could tear every fucking monument down starting in 1776 because the majority of our history is a lie. If we were being honest with ourselves, it would be more fitting to replace the "Stars and Stripes" with the Jolly Roger flag. I know a pseudo liberal such as yourself believes that you have this high road to take even though you are pathetically uninformed pretty much about everything, Cocksucker and swallower Joe.

Yet, the south was so outraged at the election of an abolitionist like Lincoln, the seceded before he could even take office

 

[JoeB131]

But if the Civil War's biggest reason was slavery? How come Lincoln didn't get the memo?

You mean he was trying his best to talk them out of the folly of Secession?

It doesn't really matter what Lincoln said... it's what the south did and why

What about the founding fathers that had slaves?

What about them?

What about the statute of Albert Pike, one of the founders of the KKK, the highest degreed Scottish Rite free-mason (whose book Morals and Dogma is considered a "must" for any high degreed member) whose bust is prominently displayed in Washington, D.C?

Yup, it wouldn't be a Cocksucker Dale quote without a paranoid rant about the Freemasons and Lizard People.

You could tear every fucking monument down starting in 1776 because the majority of our history is a lie.

I'm sure the Lizard Trilateralists told you that. My question is, can you ever stay on a topic without going into your batshit crazy rants?

 

[Dale Smith]

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

But if the Civil War's biggest reason was slavery? How come Lincoln didn't get the memo?

"I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do lesswhenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views"


What about the states that were allowed to keep their slaves as long as they didn't join the Confederacy? What about the founding fathers that had slaves? Ulysses S Grant had slaves right up until the passage of the 13th amendment (not the ORIGINAL 13th amendment, btw) Do we take down any statutes or memorabilia of them as well? What about the statute of Albert Pike, one of the founders of the KKK, the highest degreed Scottish Rite free-mason (whose book Morals and Dogma is considered a "must" for any high degreed member) whose bust is prominently displayed in Washington, D.C?

I am just playing devil's advocate here. You could tear every fucking monument down starting in 1776 because the majority of our history is a lie. If we were being honest with ourselves, it would be more fitting to replace the "Stars and Stripes" with the Jolly Roger flag. I know a pseudo liberal such as yourself believes that you have this high road to take even though you are pathetically uninformed pretty much about everything, Cocksucker and swallower Joe.

Yet, the south was so outraged at the election of an abolitionist like Lncoln, the seceded before he could even take office

And yet it took a few years for Lincoln to show that gentler and softer "abolitionist" side, no?

 

[MarkDuffy]

Why weren't they so offensive in the 50s or 60s? Or, any other time?

You mean back in the 1950s when black folks had to ride on the back of the bus?

Okay, here's why they are offensive. Because they celebrate men who fought to keep a class of Americans in slavery.

Oh, I understand that. But, why now? The Charlottesville one was there since the beginning of last century.

A black dude became president and black people started feeling their oats. Whites got pissed at both.

The rest is history.

You are welcome

 

[rightwinger]

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

Yeah! Just like WWII was fought to free the Jews and create a Jewish homeland by yanking the area out from under the feet of the Palestinians to assuage feelings of guilt,

Except nobody ever said that is what WWII was about before, during or after, Cocksucker Dale.

World War II was pretty straightforward. Germany and Japan invaded and attacked their neighbors and the world did something about it.

On the other hand, slavery was the reason why the South fought the civil War... and they made that pretty clear when it started.

You see you can put out all the bullshit excuses the South came up with, but they all circle back to slavery.

States Rights- Some states want to have slavery
Tariffs- The South wanted the benefits of having slaves - selling good that had no labor costs to produce.
The Election of Lincoln- because the guy was an abolitionist.

It's all avoiding the same point. The South did a truly horrible thing. They want to pretend they didn't do a horrible thing, and the argument over the statues isn't about the statues.

And maybe that WHY we need to tear these statues down. To admit we did a horrible thing, not just the south, but all of us by starting a country based on all men being created equal but still having some people as property.

But if the Civil War's biggest reason was slavery? How come Lincoln didn't get the memo?

"I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do lesswhenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views"


What about the states that were allowed to keep their slaves as long as they didn't join the Confederacy? What about the founding fathers that had slaves? Ulysses S Grant had slaves right up until the passage of the 13th amendment (not the ORIGINAL 13th amendment, btw) Do we take down any statutes or memorabilia of them as well? What about the statute of Albert Pike, one of the founders of the KKK, the highest degreed Scottish Rite free-mason (whose book Morals and Dogma is considered a "must" for any high degreed member) whose bust is prominently displayed in Washington, D.C?

I am just playing devil's advocate here. You could tear every fucking monument down starting in 1776 because the majority of our history is a lie. If we were being honest with ourselves, it would be more fitting to replace the "Stars and Stripes" with the Jolly Roger flag. I know a pseudo liberal such as yourself believes that you have this high road to take even though you are pathetically uninformed pretty much about everything, Cocksucker and swallower Joe.

Yet, the south was so outraged at the election of an abolitionist like Lncoln, the seceded before he could even take office

And yet it took a few years for Lincoln to show that gentler and softer "abolitionist" side, no?

It was always there, but as a politician, Lincoln understood what could realistically be achieved in 1861 United States

Saved the union and abolished slavery in just four years

 

[MarkDuffy]

Slavery was America's birth defect

We are still dealing with its under and overtones

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And, we should push this PC agenda no mater what the cost? No matter if The People are too divided?

That most on the right miss the point comes as no surprise.

This has nothing to do with the rightist contrivance of ‘political correctness.’

No one is advocating that the history of the Civil War, the confederacy, or its leaders and soldiers be ignored, forgotten, or ‘erased’ from history.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Nor is the removal of confederate statues and memorials an attempt to diminish or disparage Southern culture, heritage, and history.

The relocation of confederate statues and memorials to other more fitting venues is an appropriate acknowledgement on the part of local governments that the statues and memorials do not merit public display, and are not representative of all the people – including African-Americans once subject to the bane of slavery, Jim Crow, Black Codes, and segregation.

Indeed, many of the confederate statues and memorials were put into place long after the end of the Civil War, in defiance of civil rights legislation and rulings by the courts – as a means to intimidate African-American residents and embolden whites to oppose lawful desegregation.

Confederate statues and memorials are monuments to hate and intolerance, they have no place in our diverse and inclusive society in an official, sanctioned government capacity.

 

[JoeB131]

And yet it took a few years for Lincoln to show that gentler and softer "abolitionist" side, no?

No, Cocksucker Dale, it took him a couple of years to realize the fanatic racists of the South was pointless. The fact we are still arguing about this 150 years later is proof of that.

The Germans realized they fucked up about a decade after Hitler.

Make sure you get Alex Jones Balls while you are at it.

 

[Dale Smith]

And yet it took a few years for Lincoln to show that gentler and softer "abolitionist" side, no?

No, Cocksucker Dale, it took him a couple of years to realize the fanatic racists of the South was pointless. The fact we are still arguing about this 150 years later is proof of that.

The Germans realized they fucked up about a decade after Hitler.

Make sure you get Alex Jones Balls while you are at it.

AGAIN, you avoid the gist of the post and run away from the very salient points that I made.....just like you always do, Joe Cocksucker. Seriously, you are a joke....an unfunny joke but a joke nonetheless.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Slavery was America's birth defect

We are still dealing with its under and overtones

Why......there is no organized oppression.....

 

[JoeB131]

AGAIN, you avoid the gist of the post and run away from the very salient points that I made.....just like you always do, Joe Cocksucker. Seriously, you are a joke....an unfunny joke but a joke nonetheless.

Cocksucker Dale, you don't have a point, salient or otherwise. What Lincoln said or did was irrelevant to why the inbreds went to war. They went to war because they were terrified of what blacks would do them if slavery ended.

 

[Carter Malone]

Why weren't they so offensive in the 50s or 60s? Or, any other time?

You mean back in the 1950s when black folks had to ride on the back of the bus?

Okay, here's why they are offensive. Because they celebrate men who fought to keep a class of Americans in slavery.

What year was it when the white woman lied about Emmet Till? Young people being escorted into classrooms. Black men stepping into the street to avoid white women. Customers having salt or milk poured on their heads for sitting at a cafeteria counter.

So many innocent Black people beaten, raped, lynched, shot, knifed, starved by domestic terrorists who are no different than ISIS.

There has never been a time when any of it has been acceptable.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Zander]

Grab the shovels!!

Start digging up the bodies in Arlington National Cemetery. It must be done!!

It is on land owned by Robert E Lee!!

 

[Carter Malone]

I guess one question is are these primarily memorials to honor fallen Civil War heroes, or are they primarily symbols of resistance to Desegregation?

No matter how they started, they've become the latter.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Si modo]

Grab the shovels!!

Start digging up the bodies in Arlington National Cemetery. It must be done!!

It is in land owned by Robert E Lee!!

Seriously.

Statues are gong to cure racism. It's folly...as illustrated by this weekend.

Symbols...bah.... Stop divisive talk and bullshit race-baiting and maybe mitigate racism.

Some statue made me a racist, said no one ever..

 

[Zander]

Grab the shovels!!

Start digging up the bodies in Arlington National Cemetery. It must be done!!

It is in land owned by Robert E Lee!!

Seriously.

Statues are gong to cure racism. It's folly...as illustrated by this weekend.

Symbols...bah.... Stop divisive talk bullshit race-baiting and maybe mitigate racism.

People are fucking idiots.

 

[JoeB131]

Grab the shovels!!

Start digging up the bodies in Arlington National Cemetery. It must be done!!

It is on land owned by Robert E Lee!!

No, it was on land TAKEN from Lee as a big fuck you to his Treason. Important difference.

Now we need to finish the job or removing these traitors and racists from any place of honor.

 

[Slash]

And yet it took a few years for Lincoln to show that gentler and softer "abolitionist" side, no?

Not really. You keep quoting speeches he made in presidential debates in and around slave states. Where he was trying to come across more moderate. Just like Hillary will say she doesn't want anything to do with gun control in the South and Trump will say he want's a full replacement of Obamacare where nobody loses insurance when he speaks in liberal area's.

But you can look at his actions. Besides joining the abolitionist party, and every single state that seceded labeling his abolitionism as a reason for seceding...

1. When he stepped into the presidency, he freed the slaves in Washington DC (only place a president had the power to free the slaves)

2. Once Lee wasn't knocking at the door he used what is considered the greatest misuse of executive power. He said that states in rebellion were not protected by the constitution, therefore he didn't need an amendment to free their slaves. He made this public 5 days after the battle of Antietam.

Think of context here. Lincoln lived in Washington DC. Right in the middle of slave states that had yet to secede from the nation. He could have made the war about slavery on day 1. And on Day 2 he would have woken up in the heart of the Confederacy and let Sherman Douglas move into his new home in the White House. But as soon as he got word that the Union troops pushed the Confederates back, as soon as the lines were drawn so deep they couldn't be erased, he made his proclamation.


People create these powers for Lincoln like he was a King and not a president. Obamacare isn't alive and well because Trump loves it. It's because Trump doesn't have the power to get rid of it on his own. Lincoln removed the slaves wherever he could whenever it wouldn't cause the destruction of the USA.